Author Topic: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas  (Read 36470 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #425 on: November 06, 2017, 11:47:45 pm »
And any future federal gun control measure will have equal likelihood of failure.

Which, incidentally, is wholly predictable - It will necessarily fail ALWAYS, regardless, as there is a robust method to obtain firearms without any interaction with papered resources whatsoever, as anyone who is in the gun culture knows as a matter of course, without even resorting to criminal elements (which is yet another vast layer of wholly uncontrollable resource).

Offline Hoodat

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #426 on: November 06, 2017, 11:54:04 pm »
I guess one doesn't need to have a Mommy who's best buds with the Sheriff to get away with that, like that idiot in Tucson that shot the Congresswoman in the face killed a Conservative Federal judge did.

There.  Fixed it.

Gabby Giffords is alive and well.  John Roll is dead.
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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #427 on: November 07, 2017, 12:01:32 am »
There.  Fixed it.

Gabby Giffords is alive and well.  John Roll is dead.

She's hardly "well," she's a meat puppet for her gun-grabbing husband.  But your point is well taken, a Federal Judge was murdered, a far greater tragedy.

Added:  And a young girl.
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Offline edpc

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #428 on: November 07, 2017, 12:03:03 am »
There.  Fixed it.

Gabby Giffords is alive and well.  John Roll is dead.

So are five other people, as a result of that shooting – including a nine-year-old girl.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #429 on: November 07, 2017, 12:14:54 am »
Regardless of his discharge status, having been convicted of domestic assault is a disqualifier. He should have been flagged by NICS, and failed the check.

That's true regardless of the fact that he apparently lied on the yellow sheet which is itself a felony IIRC.
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Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #430 on: November 07, 2017, 12:16:17 am »
   This small area of Texas has lost 39 Baptist in 7 months in 2 tragic incidents.

I remember that horrible head on collision. So awful.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #431 on: November 07, 2017, 12:17:14 am »
It's probably a "negative system."  One is only in it if the record's not clean.  Not there at all?  Then Good to Go.
@corbe @Bigun @Cyber Liberty

I went looking for whether the Military has to report domestic abusers or others tried in military courts for crimes to the NICS database. Theoretically, all jurisdictions are supposed to, but efficeiency and quality of those records may vary, and mental health information reported to the NICS database is only required by 30 states, and may be hampered by HIPAA constraints if no adjudication is involved.

I did find this article, which is current: The Military Is Reporting Almost No Domestic Abusers to the Main Gun Background Check Database

So, even though Kelley was discharged over his domestic violence conviction:
Quote
When Kelley was kicked out of the Air Force in 2014, it was through a bad conduct discharge, which on its own does not initiate a gun ban.

“The federal gun laws specifically mention a dishonorable discharge. Not bad conduct,” Baxley said.
(from link above)

He slipped through the cracks because it was not specifically a DD, and because the Military was not specifically reporting the domestic abuse cases.

My opinion of the Lautenberg Amendment is not very high. It was an ex post facto law, which makes it unconstitutional, in that it retroactively punished people whose offense predated the passage of the law. I'd wager there were a lot of people who would have pled not guilty and fought questionable convictions rather than cop a plea if they had known what was in store for them.

That said, anyone who will beat their spouse or kid isn't someone with the ideal demeanor for a gun owner, and OTOH, there are some things ginned up to provide the restraining order that evicts a guy from his home, his stuff, and his kids as the opening gambit in a nasty divorce (often with the boyfriend shacked up with her in the house he bought, with the kids, too).

Domestic situations can be complicated and emotionally supercharged, even without the complicating effects of drugs or alcohol. Yet we expect people who are raised with snowflake level crisis resolution skills to handle it. Instead, they either curl up and cry or get violent. 
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:27:03 am by Smokin Joe »
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Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #432 on: November 07, 2017, 12:19:06 am »
Update at presser. Shooter was hit by good citizen, a barefoot former NRA instructor, twice, once in the leg and once in the torso. Shooter shot himself in the head.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #433 on: November 07, 2017, 12:21:55 am »
@corbe

So if he passed the background check does that mean he is in the system as having a clean record, or he isn't in the system at all?

Turns out the USAF screwed up and didn't flag him in the system when they discharged him.

http://kdvr.com/2017/11/06/officials-air-force-didnt-submit-texas-church-shooters-criminal-history-to-fbi/

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Offline edpc

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #434 on: November 07, 2017, 12:28:49 am »
Update at presser. Shooter was hit by good citizen, a barefoot former NRA instructor, twice, once in the leg and once in the torso. Shooter shot himself in the head.

Anyone know what weapon the citizen used?
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #435 on: November 07, 2017, 12:48:39 am »


CNN reporters right next to each other on splot screen, again.

(Actually, it looks like the guy is in front of green screen, pretending to be there.)
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #436 on: November 07, 2017, 12:48:48 am »
Anyone know what weapon the citizen used?

Nothing I can find so far.  They just keep referring to it as "his rifle".

Probably won't know until the authorities release that info at one of their pressers. 

And IIRC it will remain in an evidence locker until the investigation into the shooting is officially closed.
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Online bigheadfred

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #437 on: November 07, 2017, 12:53:59 am »
Turns out the USAF screwed up and didn't flag him in the system when they discharged him.

http://kdvr.com/2017/11/06/officials-air-force-didnt-submit-texas-church-shooters-criminal-history-to-fbi/

It was the point I was trying to make. I am not surprised at all.
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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #438 on: November 07, 2017, 12:55:38 am »
Nothing I can find so far.  They just keep referring to it as "his rifle".

Probably won't know until the authorities release that info at one of their pressers. 

And IIRC it will remain in an evidence locker until the investigation into the shooting is officially closed.

I saw somewhere he had a shotgun, but don't quote me.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #439 on: November 07, 2017, 12:56:19 am »
I remember that horrible head on collision. So awful.

Bus driver texting?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #440 on: November 07, 2017, 01:07:16 am »
Bus driver texting?

He was texting and had taken prescription medication. He was indicted for intoxication manslaughter.

https://www.ksat.com/news/leakey-man-blamed-for-fatal-church-bus-crash-indicted

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Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #441 on: November 07, 2017, 04:06:27 am »
KSAT tv news interviewed survivor couple who were released from hospital. Woman shot in arm, husband hit by shrapnel. They survived by playing dead. Shooter went down the aisles, finding crying babies and shot them point blank. I wish I hadn't heard that.
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Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #442 on: November 07, 2017, 04:24:05 am »
Kens5 TV San Antonio interview with a son who drove in from Houston not knowing if his mother survived. She was shot in the legs and watched the gunman kill the woman next to her, telling the woman she would go to heaven. She knew she was next and prayed to go to heaven when the neighbor hero arrived and gunman left her to deal with the plumber's AR15. She survived surgery and is still in Connelly Memorial.

These stories are so painful.
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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #443 on: November 07, 2017, 05:11:14 am »
KSAT tv news interviewed survivor couple who were released from hospital. Woman shot in arm, husband hit by shrapnel. They survived by playing dead. Shooter went down the aisles, finding crying babies and shot them point blank. I wish I hadn't heard that.

What a filthy tool of satan! Now he is spending eternity with his lord. I'm going to make an educated guess that all those in the church that morning knew the Savior. What a contrast in the destination of all those souls that departed this life in connection with this slaughter. I'm believing only one descended. The others are in the presence of their Maker. It hurts for those left behind and the wicked way they were taken from this life, but one day there will be a reunion for them of indescribable joy. No more sorrow. No more pain. No more goodbyes.


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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #444 on: November 07, 2017, 05:24:11 am »


CNN reporters right next to each other on splot screen, again.

(Actually, it looks like the guy is in front of green screen, pretending to be there.)

That shit's hysterical. "Thank you Jim for your riveting report. Hey Jane. What are experiencing on your end of the parking lot?"

Offline Gefn

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #445 on: November 07, 2017, 08:27:23 am »
KSAT tv news interviewed survivor couple who were released from hospital. Woman shot in arm, husband hit by shrapnel. They survived by playing dead. Shooter went down the aisles, finding crying babies and shot them point blank. I wish I hadn't heard that.

Well, if that is the case, he's definitely not human. I'd like to say something else but it's not nice. So I'll be nice and say I hope he has sunscreen

now, excuse me. I'm going to be sick and cry  888cryingkitty 888cryingkitty
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Offline Applewood

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #446 on: November 07, 2017, 11:47:50 am »
Kelley must have been one sick  [expletive] to deliberately shoot the babies. 

I'm wondering if he was on drugs.  I suppose an autopsy/toxicology tests will tell us ultimately. 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #447 on: November 07, 2017, 11:53:53 am »
Kelley must have been one sick  [expletive] to deliberately shoot the babies. 

I'm wondering if he was on drugs.  I suppose an autopsy/toxicology tests will tell us ultimately.
With a past of having abused his stepson (skull fracture), my bet is that he could not handle crying children, that crying set him off and he sought to silence it through more violence. Some of us hear a baby cry, we hear hunger, pain, anger, or even fear, but always the sound of someone helpless in need, not a nuisance to be beaten into submission.

Like I said before, that boy wasn't wired right.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 11:54:46 am by Smokin Joe »
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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #448 on: November 07, 2017, 12:35:27 pm »
On a defensive carry forum I visit quite often, there was once a thread topic of carying in church. People on both sides of that question, even among gun owners on that forum. I think the argument has been settled. The shooter may have been stopped earlier if bullets was coming his way. Thank God for the neaghbor who heard the shooting, and grabbed his own gun, shooting this monster twice. He may have been on his way to another church for all we know.

OH, and I do carry in church. So does the wife.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:36:39 pm by NavyCanDo »
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #449 on: November 07, 2017, 12:39:04 pm »
Kens5 TV San Antonio interview with a son who drove in from Houston not knowing if his mother survived. She was shot in the legs and watched the gunman kill the woman next to her, telling the woman she would go to heaven. She knew she was next and prayed to go to heaven when the neighbor hero arrived and gunman left her to deal with the plumber's AR15. She survived surgery and is still in Connelly Memorial.

These stories are so painful.

That actually makes me feel a tiny bit better.  One man, with no shoes and a gun, stopped the POS and this lady is still alive.  Tiny sliver of light there.