'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Suppressed]

@Suppressed Where have you seen that?

Looks like I misread things. 

Sutherland Springs Church Shooting: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

Devin Kelley’s LinkedIn page says that he was a VBS “teacher aid (sic)” for “VBS AT KINGSVILLE FBC” and notes, “Dates volunteered Jun 2013 – Jun 2013 Volunteer duration 1 mo. Cause Children. Teaching children ages 4-6 at vocational bible schools helping their minds grow and prosper.”

So I guess that's a bit older...2013.  The FB like for "Atheism" might indicate a change from then.

[Sanguine]

Easy enough to do. Easy enough to miss. My wife got a call from animal control last week that they had a Yorkie and the tag number came up as it being our dog.  They had transposed the last two numbers on the tag. They seemed at a loss as to what to do. Why don't you call the people you have as the owners with the tag numbers of our dog???? And fix your clerical error.

@Smokin Joe

States, even counties, are notorious for their lack of information sharing.  To show up on NCIS, you have to be in that system. States don't put everyone into the national database. So he may have been shut down in Texas because he is in their system. But if he wasn't put into the national database by Texas, Colorado, or NCIS, wouldn't have a clue.

But, Fred, would it have been the jurisdiction of Texas or Colorado if it was prosecuted by the Air Force? 

[bigheadfred]

So basically, the Obama administration dropped the ball.

Again, adding to my last post. Counties here sometimes only care about what you have been convicted of in their county. And the information doesn't go any further.

[Suppressed]

In a logical world, both court systems should be reporting Lautenberg violations to NICS, right?  (For the record, I don't like the Lautenberg Amendment)

In some cases, the Lautenberg Amendment (and the state precursors) have led to some pretty severe abuse of victims.  "If you're gonna get my guns taken away, b**ch, I'll make you pay!", or out of just plain anger about it.  Some state studies showed that the average violence in confrontations went up after passage of those laws and laws that required police to charge someone in any domestic incident.  Rather than allowing for de-escalation, it pushes things.

[bigheadfred]

But, Fred, would it have been the jurisdiction of Texas or Colorado if it was prosecuted by the Air Force?

Does the military automatically enter their information into NCIS? That is your question. And about that, I do not know.

[Hoodat]

Texas shooter may have been motivated to kill by domestic situation-NPR

Grandmother-In-Law Of Suspect Among Texas Church Shooting Victims
November 6, 2017 11:50 AM

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS (CBSDFW/AP/CNN) – Officials say that the 26 people killed in a shooting at a small South Texas church range in age from 18 months to 77 years old, including the grandmother-in-law of the suspect.  .  .  .

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/11/06/18-month-old-among-texas-church-shooting-victims/

[Sanguine]

Does the military automatically enter their information into NCIS? That is your question. And about that, I do not know.

No, I don't either.

[bigheadfred]

No, I don't either.

I don't think there is much information sharing between the military branches, either. And very little between them and the other security agencies, who don't share information with each other,  at the national level.

[musiclady]

Grandmother-In-Law Of Suspect Among Texas Church Shooting Victims
November 6, 2017 11:50 AM

SUTHERLAND SPRINGS (CBSDFW/AP/CNN) – Officials say that the 26 people killed in a shooting at a small South Texas church range in age from 18 months to 77 years old, including the grandmother-in-law of the suspect.  .  .  .

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/11/06/18-month-old-among-texas-church-shooting-victims/

Texas Department of Public Safety Regional Director Freeman Martin said Monday that the mass shooting stemmed from a domestic situation and was not racially or religiously motivated.

The fact that it was a domestic situation doesn't exclude the possibility that it was also religiously motivated.

I don't like it when officials draw conclusions before the facts are fully presented.

This happens all the time.

[corbe]

Texas church shooting suspect bought guns after checks -seller
Reuters 14 mins ago

 The man accused of killing 26 people at a Texas church bought two firearms from stores operated by a sporting goods chain in 2016 and 2017 after being approved in background checks, the company, Academy Sports & Outdoors, said on Monday.

"Both sales were approved by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). We are cooperating with law enforcement as they investigate further," privately owned Academy Sports said in a statement.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/texas-church-shooting-suspect-bought-guns-after-checks-seller/ar-AAuwhvF?li=AA4ZnC&ocid=ientp

[mystery-ak]

Heartbreaking: Eight months pregnant Crystal Holcombe (center) died in the church shooting on Sunday alongside her son Greg (far left), daughters Emily and Megan. Her husband, John (far right) survived alongside two of their children. It's unclear if they are among the injured
 

more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5055275/Pictured-Mother-five-killed-family-members.html

[mountaineer]

Both sales were approved by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). 

'Cuz he lied on the form?

[txradioguy]

No, I don't either.

IIRC if you receive a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable discharge it goes into the federal system and pops up if you ever try to purchase a weapon.

[Sanguine]

IIRC if you receive a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable discharge it goes into the federal system and pops up if you ever try to purchase a weapon.

I would think so. 

[truth_seeker]

A major finding of the 9/11 Commission study was that  LEO agencies had "stove piping" of data. IOW they did NOT share data.

The FBI and CIA and  DIA and others, did not inform their counterparts, of vital information about dangerous people and situations.

There was much talk vowing to do better.

Now we see where 26 people may be dead, due to the same shortcoming of LEO data sharing.

I have noticed this type of shortcoming is merely taken in stride, by government employee types, including LEO.

I live near a locations where 3 different jurisdictions come together; namely city, county and state.

Officers use "field interviews," to note contact with dubious individuals. It is sort of a first warning eg. "I've noted our contact."

The bad guys benefit, since the 3 jurisdictions don't communicate with each other.

[Cyber Liberty]

A major finding of the 9/11 Commission study was that  LEO agencies had "stove piping" of data. IOW they did NOT share data.

The FBI and CIA and  DIA and others, did not inform their counterparts, of vital information about dangerous people and situations.

There was much talk vowing to do better.

Now we see where 26 people may be dead, due to the same shortcoming of LEO data sharing.

I have noticed this type of shortcoming is merely taken in stride, by government employee types, including LEO.

I live near a locations where 3 different jurisdictions come together; namely city, county and state.

Officers use "field interviews," to note contact with dubious individuals. It is sort of a first warning eg. "I've noted our contact."

The bad guys benefit, since the 3 jurisdictions don't communicate with each other.

Mrs. Liberty is from your general area (OC), and she confirms it's like that all over the state.  Sheriff and City are notorious for never talking.  Manson almost got away with the Tate and LaBianca murders because of it.

[Smokin Joe]

Easy enough to do. Easy enough to miss. My wife got a call from animal control last week that they had a Yorkie and the tag number came up as it being our dog.  They had transposed the last two numbers on the tag. They seemed at a loss as to what to do. Why don't you call the people you have as the owners with the tag numbers of our dog???? And fix your clerical error.

@Smokin Joe

States, even counties, are notorious for their lack of information sharing.  To show up on NCIS, you have to be in that system. States don't put everyone into the national database. So he may have been shut down in Texas because he is in their system. But if he wasn't put into the national database by Texas, Colorado, or NCIS, wouldn't have a clue.

I think you meant National Instant Check System (NICS) rather than the Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS). In this case, the information sharing would have to be between the Military and the Feds, because he was tried by a Military Court. He still might not be in a NCIS database (not sure), because he was Air Force, and iirc, they mainly cover the Navy and USMC.

[Smokin Joe]

Again, adding to my last post. Counties here sometimes only care about what you have been convicted of in their county. And the information doesn't go any further.

NICS is Federal. That background check is ordinarily required.
Perhaps Texas or Colo have an 'easy out' without background check for active duty military (such as exists in some states for CCW holders who have already been background checked in order to get the permit), but he had been out of the service since before his first purchase.

[Smokin Joe]

A major finding of the 9/11 Commission study was that  LEO agencies had "stove piping" of data. IOW they did NOT share data.

The FBI and CIA and  DIA and others, did not inform their counterparts, of vital information about dangerous people and situations.

There was much talk vowing to do better.

Now we see where 26 people may be dead, due to the same shortcoming of LEO data sharing.

I have noticed this type of shortcoming is merely taken in stride, by government employee types, including LEO.

I live near a locations where 3 different jurisdictions come together; namely city, county and state.

Officers use "field interviews," to note contact with dubious individuals. It is sort of a first warning eg. "I've noted our contact."

The bad guys benefit, since the 3 jurisdictions don't communicate with each other.

The Gorelick Memo saw to that stovepiping during the Clinton Administration, but it mainly dealt with intelligence data, iirc, and not ordinary criminal case dispositions. Had that stovepiping NOT been present (a legacy of the Clinton Administration, and quite possibly of significant benefit to them) it is possible military intelligence might have been able to compare notes with the FBI, BATF, and CIA and perhaps 9/11 could have been prevented.

Even more obscene is that Gorelick sat on the 9/11 commission, to investigate what went wrong. That was the first solid sense I had that CYA mechanisms were in place for the Clintons, and that became even more corrupt under Obama. If Trump fails to clean house, those people will be a stumbling block for every investigation, like Comey with the E-mails, and the absolute lack of anything done over Benghazi, Fast and Furious, and Now the Uranium deal.

[Applewood]

I disagree.  Meanness isn't a mental illness.  Violence isn't correlated with mental illness.

This is not a killing by a gangsta or gangsta wannabe in a big city like Chicago over turf, women or drugs.  This is about a guy who maybe decided that whatever was wrong in his life was the fault of the parishioners in a church -- including the tiniest baby and the senior citizens -- and decided to slaughter them all.  If that isn't mental illness, I don't know what is. 

I'm old enough to remember the 50s, when such mass murders were unheard of.  When I grew up, I read Truman Capote's In Cold Blood, about the 1950s slaughter of an entire family in a rural farming community by two cons.  The story was shocking simply because such mass murder wasn't common back in those days. 

Today we are seeing mass murder on a weekly basis.  Yes, some of these are being done by jihadis who hate the west, but too many are being committed by ordinary people with no ties to violent hate groups.  Why are these murders becoming so commonplace?  Is there something in the water supply that is causing people to snap?    Might be a good idea to find out, rather than have the Democrat knee jerk reaction of banning and confiscating all firearms. 

[Gefn]

In a logical world, both court systems should be reporting Lautenberg violations to NICS, right?  (For the record, I don't like the Lautenberg Amendment)

I didn't like Senator Lautenberg, but I can't speak ill of the dead. I never voted for him and he was mean to my favorite congressperson of all time, Millicent Fenwick.

[Gefn]

Heartbreaking: Eight months pregnant Crystal Holcombe (center) died in the church shooting on Sunday alongside her son Greg (far left), daughters Emily and Megan. Her husband, John (far right) survived alongside two of their children. It's unclear if they are among the injured
 

more
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5055275/Pictured-Mother-five-killed-family-members.html

If she was 8 months pregnant, that is one more life he took, imho, though I apologize to the mods because this shouldn't be on this thread. I'm just upset.

[Hoodat]

I didn't like Senator Lautenberg, but I can't speak ill of the dead. I never voted for him and he was mean to my favorite congressperson of all time, Millicent Fenwick.

@Freya

Millicent Fenwick was awesome.  I remember the National Organization of (Liberal) Women always backing her male Democrat opponent.

[Cyber Liberty]

If she was 8 months pregnant, that is one more life he took, imho, though I apologize to the mods because this shouldn't be on this thread. I'm just upset.

I think it fits just fine, Freya.  We're upset, too, when we see stories like this one.  I reckon every single person in that town is devastated, because everybody knows somebody who was cut down yesterday.  Hugs! 

[austingirl]

This evil bastard broke his stepson's skull and served a year in the brig. That was his first wife. Danielle Shields was his second wife, married in 2014. She is from Sutherland Springs, not the first wife.

He was also charged with animal cruelty in Colorado. He liked to hurt defenseless infants and puppies. Wonder if he wet the bed and started fires as a child.