Author Topic: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)  (Read 612 times)

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Offline Fishrrman

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Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« on: November 02, 2017, 01:52:56 pm »
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/1/italy-losing-culture-to-immigrant-influx/

Italy’s apocalypse
As they lose their culture to waves of immigrants, Italians simply deny



By Daniel Pipes
Wednesday, November 1, 2017

ROME | When thinking about migrants and Islam, Italy is not a country that comes to mind.
Unlike its northern neighbors, Italy had no economic miracle that required the massive importation of labor. It lacks a deep bond to some major source of migration, such as South Asia for Great Britain. It has not experienced major acts of jihadi violence such as France has. Unlike Sweden, one does not hear tales of crazy appeasement and unlike Belgium, there are no partial no-go zones. Unlike the Netherlands, no flamboyant anti-Islamic politician has emerged comparable to Geert Wilders and unlike Germany, no anti-immigration party has become a significant political force.

But, no less than its northern counterparts, Italy deserves attention, for it is undergoing massive changes. Arguably, they are even more pressing, far-reaching and denied more than in the better-known countries.

For starters, there’s geography. Not only does Italy’s famous boot stick prominently into the Mediterranean Sea, making the country a tempting target for seaborne illegal migrants, but Italian territory reaches into North Africa: The small island of Lampedusa, population 6,000, lies just 70 miles off the coast of Tunisia and 184 miles from Libya. In 2016, 181,000 migrants entered Italy, nearly all of them illegal, nearly all by sea.

It was challenge enough when Libya’s Moammar Gadhafi turned the migrant flow on and off, thereby winning concessions from Italy in a game that anticipated what Turkey’s Recep Tayyip Erdogan now plays with Germany. But since Gadhafi’s overthrow in October 2011, the anarchy in Libya presents even greater problems. At least Gadhafi could efficiently be paid off; how much more difficult to deal with a myriad of local strongmen and people-smugglers.

Exacerbating the trend toward what the French intellectual Renaud Camus calls a grand replacement of populations, 285,000 Italians left their homeland in 2016, a major increase over prior years.

...

After traveling to 12 cities and towns in Italy, I came away with the impression that the crisis is just too awful for most Italians to cope with. (American readers might compare this to their countrymen’s reluctance to confront the threat of electromagnetic pulse.) A vignette captured the new Italy for me in a park in Padua: A statue is surrounded by four benches. Seven elderly Italian women squeeze onto one bench while eight African men spread out on the other three benches. This scene summed up both mutual distaste and the migrants’ abundant sense of superiority.

What will it take for Italians to wake up and begin to deal with the demographic and civilizational catastrophe facing their uniquely attractive culture? My guess: A major jihadi attack in Rome.

Note: this is an excerpt -- see URL above for full article

Offline endicom

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Re: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2017, 02:17:00 pm »
The problem is not as much the nations as the EU. For instance, through the EU, a country like Germany can force Italian acceptance of migrants. Italy, in turn, can allow the migrants to migrate north. Insanity.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2017, 04:18:31 pm »
I'm not sure if Pipes' doomsday scenario does play out; there have been outright riots over this foreign invasion in Italy:

Quote
A vignette captured the new Italy for me in a park in Padua: A statue is surrounded by four benches. Seven elderly Italian women squeeze onto one bench while eight African men spread out on the other three benches. This scene summed up both mutual distaste and the migrants’ abundant sense of superiority.

Also, "migrant", especially those coming across from Libya does not automatically mean they are "Muslim", especially those coming from Sub-Saharan Africa.

Quote

DM: Italy Ready to Lead Invasion of Libya to Fight ISIS

Warns ISIS 'Just South of Rome'
Jason Ditz Posted on February 16, 2015Categories NewsTags ISIS, Italy, Libya   

From the Punic Wars to the Second World War, Italy has a history of seeing military goals along the Libyan coast. Today, Defense Minister Roberta Pinotti suggested that Italy is looking that way again, preparing to lead an invasion of Libya to fight against the ISIS affiliate there.

Interior Minister Angelino Alfano also chimed in, claiming Italy views ISIS as “just south of Rome,” and that the risk of ISIS moving into Italy “could not be discounted,” calling on the UN to endorse a military operation.

http://news.antiwar.com/2015/02/16/dm-italy-ready-to-lead-invasion-of-libya-to-fight-isis/

Daniel Pipes needs to do more to convince me. He's the same one that has said Russia will be demographically changed in the near future:

http://www.danielpipes.org/13531/muslim-russia

This is even scarier but he could be correct.  I have read articles where people say Pipes' math is off, it's not backed up with solid research.

Italy won't be granting these migrants voting rights period.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 04:23:22 pm by TomSea »

Offline thackney

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Re: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 04:41:03 pm »
Italy won't be granting these migrants voting rights period.

Are you sure about that?

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/italy/moving/voting

If you're resident in Italy you can vote in some Italian elections. This page tells you how...

All EU citizens living as residents in Italy and registered as resident in the local commune are legally entitled to vote in certain Italian elections...

Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline TomSea

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Re: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2017, 04:47:46 pm »
Are you sure about that?

https://www.angloinfo.com/how-to/italy/moving/voting

If you're resident in Italy you can vote in some Italian elections. This page tells you how...

All EU citizens living as residents in Italy and registered as resident in the local commune are legally entitled to vote in certain Italian elections...

I think that's the key, EU citizens, this initial article is about the refugees coming in from Africa and the Middle East.

Offline thackney

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Re: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 05:01:58 pm »
I think that's the key, EU citizens, this initial article is about the refugees coming in from Africa and the Middle East.

I'm not sure the Italian population sees that as a barrier.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/665672/italy-opinion-on-immigrants-right-to-vote-in-political-elections/

Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline TomSea

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Re: Italy's Apocalypse (Daniel Pipes)
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2017, 03:05:36 am »
I call rubbish on this doomsday talk about Europe, we here in the US suffer another great tragedy, they could say the same about us. I do know they can look and say "look at those Americans", we'll see how this all pans out. That is not to say one should throw caution to the wind.  Even with Daniel Pipes article, those Africans were in the square on the benches, we don't know if they were Muslims at that. Italy has long had Subsaharans coming up.