McCain appears to take swipe at Trump’s ‘bone spur’ Vietnam deferment

[mystery-ak]

McCain appears to take swipe at Trump’s ‘bone spur’ Vietnam deferment
By Brandon Conradis - 10/22/17 08:58 PM EDT

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) took what appeared to be a swipe at President Trump during an interview about the Vietnam War on Sunday, criticizing how upper-income Americans were able to obtain a draft deferment for having a “bone spur.”

McCain made the remarks while discussing the draft on an episode of C-SPAN3’s American History TV.

“One aspect of the (Vietnam) conflict by the way that I will never ever countenance is that we drafted the lowest income level of America and the highest income level found a doctor that would say that they had a bone spur,” McCain said. “That is wrong. That is wrong. If we are going to ask every American to serve, every American should serve.”

more
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/356648-mccain-takes-swipe-at-trumps-bone-spur-vietnam-deferment

[Night Hides Not]

Silly me...I thought the draft during Vietnam was an issue rent asunder after the election of William Jefferson Clinton.  Hard to believe that was 25 years ago.

[Free Vulcan]

Whatever Songbird.

[TomSea]

I watched a documentary on newsmax, "Nixon in the den",  at one point, that documentary said 200 soldiers died a week in Vietnam. That is an incredibly high number... so then, Nixon brought in his "Vietnamization" policy.

[skeeter]

POW or no, McCain is one tiny man.

[mystery-ak]

[Night Hides Not]

I watched a documentary on newsmax, "Nixon in the den",  at one point, that documentary said 200 soldiers died a week in Vietnam. That is an incredibly high number... so then, Nixon brought in his "Vietnamization" policy.

1966 6,143

1967 11,153

1968 16,592

1969 11,616

1970 6,081

https://www.militaryfactory.com/vietnam/casualties.asp

[mountaineer]

If bone spurs - or various other health issues - are inappropriate grounds for draft deferments, perhaps the rules at the time shouldn't have allowed them. The fact is a lot of guys escaped the draft for a variety of reasons, including hanging around in college for years and years. Others had such a high lottery number, there was no chance they'd be drafted. They could have enlisted, but they didn't.

I don't know whether I have less respect for fellows who legally "dodged" the draft or for those like McCain and Kerry, who used  less-than-honorable military careers as a springboard to a lifetime of suckling at the government teat and stuffing their own pockets.

In any event, McCain probably should deal with the beam in his own eye.

[LottieDah]

A little off topic -- My husband calls Trump a draft dodger.  He also called Dick Cheney a draft dodger over his deferments. Meanwhile my husband did everything in his power to avoid the draft and he did.  His mother even offered to send him Canada to live with relatives.  My husband does not hide his disdain for the aforementioned men.  This is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

[Suppressed]

@mystery-ak

That's a totally false claim, one that has been debunked fully. 

@Smokin Joe gives a nice concise synopsis here: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,282727.msg1462973.html#msg1462973
 

[DiogenesLamp]

McCain appears to take swipe at Trump’s ‘bone spur’ Vietnam deferment

Does anyone recall McCain calling that Bastard Bill Clinton a draft dodger?


I certainly have no recollection of him ever doing it,   and if he refused to say it about Bill Clinton,   he lost any moral authority to say it about anyone else. 

[DiogenesLamp]

@mystery-ak

That's a totally false claim, one that has been debunked fully. 

@Smokin Joe gives a nice concise synopsis here: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,282727.msg1462973.html#msg1462973

I looked up the "proof"  and watched it.   It didn't prove what was claimed that it would prove. 


I have moved this claim into the "unverified"  category,  but it hasn't been "busted."   It's still plausibly true in my opinion. 

[TomSea]

@mystery-ak

That's a totally false claim, one that has been debunked fully. 

@Smokin Joe gives a nice concise synopsis here: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,282727.msg1462973.html#msg1462973

FWIW, I have heard this as well, per Suppressed's post.

I guess one would really have to dig into it. Thanks for the link.

[corbe]

    A little perspective for that time of which I can speak of, I volunteered and served Honorably, USAF.

FACT VS FICTION.....THE VIETNAM VETERAN

 The stereotypes are wrong. Let's look at the facts, starting with who actually served in Vietnam.
The image of those who fought in Vietnam is one of poorly educated, reluctant draftees -- predominantly poor whites and minorities. But in reality, only one-third of Vietnam-era veterans entered the military through the draft, far lower than the 66 percent drafted in World War II.

It was the best-educated and most egalitarian military force in America's history -- and with the advent of the all-volunteer military, is likely to remain so. In WWII, only 45 percent of the troops had a high school diploma. During the Vietnam War, almost 80 percent of those who enlisted had high school diplomas, and the percentage was higher for draftees -- even though, at the time, only 65 percent of military-age males had a high school diploma.

Throughout the Vietnam era, the median education level of the enlisted man was about 13 years. Proportionately, three times as many college graduates served in Vietnam than in WWII.

Another common assumption: The war in Vietnam was fought by youngsters wet behind the ears, who died as teenagers barely old enough to shave. In fact, more 52-year-olds (22) died in Vietnam than 17-year-olds (12). An analysis of data from the Department of Defense shows the average age of men killed in Vietnam was 22.8 years, or almost 23 years old.

Though the notion persists that those who died in Vietnam were mostly members of a minority group, it's not true. About 5 percent of KIAs were Hispanic and 12.5 percent were black -- making both minorities slightly under-represented in their proportion of draft-age males in the national population.
 A common negative image of the soldier in Vietnam is that he smoked pot and injected heroin to dull the horrors of combat. However, except for the last couple of years of the war, drug usage among GIs in Vietnam was lower than for U.S. troops stationed elsewhere.
 When drug rates started to rise in 1971 and 1972, almost 90 percent of the men who served in Vietnam had already come and gone. A study after the war by the VA showed drug usage of veterans and non-veterans to be about the same. And marijuana -- not heroin -- was the drug used in 75 percent of the cases. Of those addicted, 88 percent kicked the habit within three years of returning.

http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm

[Emjay]

A little off topic -- My husband calls Trump a draft dodger.  He also called Dick Cheney a draft dodger over his deferments. Meanwhile my husband did everything in his power to avoid the draft and he did.  His mother even offered to send him Canada to live with relatives.  My husband does not hide his disdain for the aforementioned men.  This is a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black.

Your husband is not alone.  I, too, had plans for keeping a family member out of the draft.  Fortunately, he had a high lottery number by the time the war was almost over.

However, unlike him, I feel no disdain for the men who successfully avoided it.  It was a horrible period in our history and showed exactly what we should not do, draftwise.

[Emjay]

    A little perspective for that time of which I can speak of, I volunteered and served Honorably, USAF.




http://www.vvof.org/factsvnv.htm

There's the lie, the damned lie and statistics.

[Emjay]

That study is mildly impressive but it included everybody from Generals on down.  It included officers, career military, pilots and all the high level people who fought in Viet Nam.

Find a study about the grunts only and I'll be impressed.

[DiogenesLamp]

McCain and Meghan on "the View".   




Always gotta help the enemy,  don't you McCain? 

[corbe]

   The point I was trying to make @Emjay (and will probably lose it again) Is that the Officers had generally accepted that as their career, why else would they go through all that training. The Vietnam Force of the US Military was compromised mostly of Grunts like me, that volunteered. In all honesty, my high draft number and the pending possession and shoplifting charge expedited my decision, but none the less there are those cowards (for lack of tact at this moment cause it is a very sensitive subject to me) that used all available means to them to avoid Service to their Country. 
   I do understand your point, and as a Mother your feelings are hard and true, I could never argue with that, we'll just agree to disagree.



       Sometimes my kisses drip Orange, only for You.

[truth_seeker]

A "volunteer" that I knew was flunking out of college, got kicked out from home by his father.

He was draft material so he enlisted. He served 37 years, and retired as  Lt. Gen. All combat arms. Airborne Ranger stuff. Earned Masters degree while in the Army. Went to work for Raytheon after a year of travel and golf when he left the service.

Of course his first combat tour, was in Vietnam as a LT1 (first lieutenant)

Moral, there were more "draftees," than the records would show. Enlistment got you choice of training, and select your entry date somewhat.

[catfish1957]

This McCain-Trump fight is a win-win.  I can't stand either one of them.

[aligncare]

If bone spurs - or various other health issues - are inappropriate grounds for draft deferments, perhaps the rules at the time shouldn't have allowed them. The fact is a lot of guys escaped the draft for a variety of reasons, including hanging around in college for years and years. Others had such a high lottery number, there was no chance they'd be drafted. They could have enlisted, but they didn't.

I don't know whether I have less respect for fellows who legally "dodged" the draft or for those like McCain and Kerry, who used  less-than-honorable military careers as a springboard to a lifetime of suckling at the government teat and stuffing their own pockets.

In any event, McCain probably should deal with the beam in his own eye.

I was 360 for the draft but enlisted USAF anyway. Four days in country and Bien Hoa enlisted barracks takes a dozen rockets at 3 AM. A night I’ll never forget. Yep, 360.

[truth_seeker]

I was 360 for the draft but enlisted USAF anyway. Four days in country and Bien Hoa enlisted barracks takes a dozen rockets at 3 AM. A night I’ll never forget. Yep, 360.

Thanks for your service.

I was drafted (with a wife and 6 month old daughter). Did my two years, and returned to college and career.

[corbe]

    I know you weren't fishing for compliments @aligncare BUT Thank You for your service. 
    The Pentagon has still not proved to me they can do anything but War and they usually do that pretty damn good, when not constrained by politicians.  The problem is still 'winning the 'Hearts and Minds' of the populace, some cultures just seem immune to adapting the 'Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness' enshrined in our foundings, our ability to Nation Build still suxs and should be abandoned.

[mountaineer]

My hat's off to all who served.