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Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« on: October 13, 2017, 10:10:18 pm »
Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
Posted: Oct 13, 2017 2:46 AM CST
Updated: Oct 13, 2017 4:38 PM CST

By KEN RITTER and MICHAEL BALSAMO
Associated Press

LAS VEGAS (AP) - Las Vegas investigators offered a new version of events Friday in a shifting timeline surrounding the deadliest shooting in modern U.S. history as they described how the gunman opened fire on nearby airport jet fuel tanks and on police officers arriving at the massacre.

Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo held a highly anticipated news conference alongside the top FBI agent in Las Vegas amid questions about whether police could have done more to stop gunman Stephen Paddock on Oct. 1.

more
http://www.wsmv.com/story/36588180/las-vegas-police-shift-timeline-again-in-concert-massacre
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Offline austingirl

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2017, 10:47:49 pm »
They refused to take questions at the presser today. Sheriff was defensive and emotional.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline edpc

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2017, 11:02:38 pm »
“I provided you the information as I knew it, and everybody in here knew it was going to change,” he said, visibly irritated.

F off.  If you don't have full confidence in the information, don't release it. This guy has been an embarrassment and liability.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 11:03:46 pm by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2017, 11:04:51 pm »
A really foul odor is beginning to emanate from all this.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2017, 12:00:10 am »
I don't even begin to understand what is going on here. 

Offline edpc

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2017, 12:08:28 am »
I don't even begin to understand what is going on here.

Incompetence, pure and simple.  Vegas cops are full of officers more interested in getting a lucrative job as a casino consultant, just like LA ones are looking to be Jack Vincennes.  There was a time after Hoover died and before Clinton took office where the FBI was the premiere investigation unit with groundbreaking methods and tech.  Now, it's a politicized mess.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2017, 12:27:44 am »
Initial reports are often confused, and preliminary reports are commonly amended with more information. In this, too, is the likelihood that the MGM chain and the hotel are doing some serious damage control in anticipation of serious and numerous liability suits. From the article, which I recommend reading in full, :
Quote
The wounded Campos used his radio and cellphone to call for help, police said. A maintenance worker, Stephen Schuck, has said he also called for help on his radio, asking a dispatcher to call police because someone was shooting a rifle on the 32nd floor.

It's not clear what Mandalay Bay maintenance and security workers did with those radio messages.
It still isn't clear? After a week? Why not? is someone obstructing the investigation? Are several someones obstructing the investigation?It seems there are a lot of people who are material witnesses or providing evidence or material statements in this case who would be served by altering or obfuscating the timeline and other details in order to either reduce their liability exposure, shift blame, hide any foreknowledge or possible actionable negligence, and to retain assets which might be inherited.
In other words, there are a lot of people who might have motive to be less than forthright or complete in their testimony. That isn't saying they have been, only that some $eriou$ motive$ exist.
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2017, 12:49:17 am »
I'm now convinced this whole thing was a black-op/false-flag or some covert alliance with something else that did the deed for whatever purpose we will never know.

All I do know is that every government agency involved in this is full of abject bullshit - and I no longer believe a word any government official or agency has to say about anything.

They are forever liars and not to be trusted to disseminate any kind of information beneficial to either justice or the populace.

We are on our own.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 12:49:47 am by INVAR »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2017, 02:08:45 am »
I'm now convinced this whole thing was a black-op/false-flag or some covert alliance with something else that did the deed for whatever purpose we will never know.

All I do know is that every government agency involved in this is full of abject bullshit - and I no longer believe a word any government official or agency has to say about anything.

They are forever liars and not to be trusted to disseminate any kind of information beneficial to either justice or the populace.

We are on our own.
I am not convinced, but have seen nothing to compel me to discard any of several possibilities.

1 As you say. Could be. Other possibilities not yet eliminated.

2: SJS (Convert, sudden jihad syndrome, ties to Philippines, etc.) (recall te FBI somehow couldn't find tens of thousands of illegal e-mails and other classified information on Hillary's server, so looking at the laptops may as well have been from the next room, and seeing them on the table. Ditto with their 'interviewing go zillions of people about the suspect. With Flight 800, despite tens of thousands of pages of testimony they managed to NOT interview ANY of the 145 or so people who reported seeing something go up before the plane went down. Not one. I have little faith in that, either.

2a: Blackmail using relatives of girlfriend in PI, done by Abu Sayef (notorious for such things, esp. Kidnapping/ransom) (see above comment on FBI)

3: Organic brain problem: the results are based on visual examination, without pathology and assuming the brain is messed up, (Still no ME report) a tumor may be difficult to identify if the tissue is damaged by visual inspection, and may have been damaged or destroyed.

4: Mental illness triggered by gambling or other stress.

Note that it is unusual for a guy to kill himself using a pistol with other than a head shot. Guys want to get the job done, no screwups. Women tend to commit suicide with a firearm by shooting themselves in the chest, maybe out of vanity, but tend to avoid the possible facial disfigurement from the head shot. Certainly there are exceptions both ways, but those are the 'norms'.

I have yet to see anything which says that any of those possibilities can be eliminated. It is normal for initial data to be mixed up, and for things to be corrected as the investigation progresses. That might also mean someone is just getting the final story hammered out and shuffling the details to fit. Time will tell, we don't know yet, and the theories and data don't fit well. The one thing the LV LEOs have said that tends to enhance credibility overall is that "They don't know." which may or may not be true, but at least fits best with what we have been told.

Usually, the lies are whipped up, polished up, and stuck to. Center fuel tanks, and all that...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Applewood

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2017, 12:34:19 pm »
I would like to know just who is in charge of this investigation. I'm inclined to think it's not the sheriff or any local law enforcement. But you know the FBI will make sure that whatever is wrong will be blamed on the locals, not them.

Hoover must be spinning in his grave.

Offline austingirl

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2017, 03:29:15 pm »
I don't know how they can get away with not answering questions from the press. The corrupt and incompetent FBI is in charge, IMO.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2017, 09:56:09 pm »
I don't know how they can get away with not answering questions from the press. The corrupt and incompetent FBI is in charge, IMO.

You mean the FBI that can't find it's a$$ with both hands and a flashlight?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2017, 10:06:43 pm »
Quote
Las Vegas Police Again Change Timeline of Mass Shooting
Fox40, Oct 13, 2017

On Friday, Lombardo said Campos arrived near Paddock’s suite at 9:59 p.m., but was not shot then. A barricaded door prevented him from reaching Paddock’s door, so the guard went to an upper floor and came back down to the 32nd floor, the sheriff said.

Paddock shot Campos through the door about 10:05 p.m. and began firing on the crowd around then — a time confirmed by security cameras, Lombardo said.

Lombardo’s latest timeline essentially agrees with one put forth Thursday by MGM Resorts International, owner of Mandalay Bay, which disputed the times earlier provided by police. MGM said Paddock was shooting at concertgoers “at the same time as, or within 40 seconds after,” Campos first reported shots.

Why the confusion about what happened at 9:59 p.m.?


More: http://fox40.com/2017/10/13/las-vegas-police-again-change-timeline-of-mass-shooting/

MGM Resorts must be facing numerous lawsuits. 


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2017, 11:07:33 pm »
MGM Resorts must be facing numerous lawsuits.
The first was filed on October 11: https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/homicides/woman-files-1st-lawsuit-against-mgm-resorts-over-las-vegas-shooting/
The article mentions the six minute gap between discovery and the start of the shootings outside.

The manufacturer of the bump stock has been named, too, along with the concert organizer.  https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/homicides/woman-files-1st-lawsuit-against-mgm-resorts-over-las-vegas-shooting/

It looks like all the pockets with any depth are being named but the article says she is only looking for $15K to defray costs of injuries.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2017, 11:19:49 pm »
Gun fire makes a lot of noise...

One would expect there were other people on the 32nd floor.

There has to be a lot of evidence as to when 200 rounds were fired through the door and down the hallway... From people calling the police to the hotel's own security and maintenance people.

This stinks.

Offline edpc

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 11:34:58 pm »
Gun fire makes a lot of noise...

One would expect there were other people on the 32nd floor.

So do outdoor concerts and it was still relatively early for a Vegas evening.  Most people were probably still out or in the casino.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 11:52:50 pm »
Gun fire makes a lot of noise...

One would expect there were other people on the 32nd floor.

There has to be a lot of evidence as to when 200 rounds were fired through the door and down the hallway... From people calling the police to the hotel's own security and maintenance people.

This stinks.
It smells of CYA and a lot of pressure to absolve someone of any liability. People don't realize just how fast 6 minutes can pass, especially in a chaotic situation. Most people take longer to go in the kitchen, pour a cup of coffee and return to their seat.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2017, 01:29:42 am »
Author raises some good points minus the noise of the side commentary.

Five MORE Things That Don’t Add up About the Las Vegas Massacre

http://realfarmacy.com/5-more-things-las-vegas-shooting/

The media has released photos of guns and ammo magazines laying around on the floor of the supposed “sniper’s nest” hotel room on the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay hotel in Las Vegas, but there’s something totally wrong with these pictures

#1) Where is all the expended brass?

Now, maybe I’m just a moron who thinks automatic rifles discharge expended brass or something, because the last time I shot my rifle — which was yesterday — hot brass kept blasting out the right side port with every round. Very annoying. I wish I knew how to turn that off.

So, given that Stephen Paddock was firing full-auto rifles in a sustained 10-minute assault, at roughly the rate of six rounds per second, we should probably see massive piles of expended brass all over the place.

Let’s see: 6 rounds per second, times 60 seconds in a minute, times 10 minutes of sustained fire… that comes to 3600 rounds of ammunition. If you figure there were pauses in the automatic fire, you could discount that to maybe 3000 rounds actually fired...
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Offline edpc

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2017, 01:42:22 am »
There's all kinds of brass lying about in the pics.  It's a very large 2 room location and we're seeing a small part in these photos.  This guy is a fool and his site is garbage, full of adware and 'I know something you don't' bulls**t.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 01:48:19 am by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2017, 01:54:08 am »
Interesting point about the brass. Some rifles will throw it forward, and some may have gone out the window, bit I expected to see much more and a lot of that 7.62 X 51 (.308) from the relative thump of the gunfire sounds heard in the videos. There is also the lighter crack I'd expect from the .223/5.56. Both AR-10 and AR 15  style rifles were mentioned in early reports. 

I really question the benefit of a scope on something being fired with a bump stock as the eye relief would be constantly changing, making any use of the scope difficult if not impossible after the first shot.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2017, 02:55:21 am »
It is all messed up now. It's not pivotal but if one looks at the Paddock death photo, as others have said, the shell casings look like they are on top of the puddle of blood.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2017, 02:58:39 am »
We won't get to the bottom of this. We might not even if the DOJ went in there, but that might help. America deserves to know, all of this is so fogged up currently.

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2017, 03:16:38 am »
I don't even begin to understand what is going on here.

Then the investigators are doing their job.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2017, 03:17:46 am »
We won't get to the bottom of this. We might not even if the DOJ went in there, but that might help. America deserves to know, all of this is so fogged up currently.
I actually think that is dependent on the politics of whomever would be dispatched by the DOJ. I believe that is infused with the same anti-gun folks who countenanced Fast and Furious, and they will skew any results toward their agenda.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: Sheriff again shifts time gunfire started in Vegas massacre
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2017, 08:36:47 am »
I actually think that is dependent on the politics of whomever would be dispatched by the DOJ. I believe that is infused with the same anti-gun folks who countenanced Fast and Furious, and they will skew any results toward their agenda.

Might as well just give up on justice with that kind of an answer. So we can't ever know what happened?

58 people died, time to think a little about others besides ourselves.