20 reasons to join the fight against the Far Left

[Mesaclone]

First of all, setting aside unwise campaign rhetoric, we need all conservatives back in this struggle. That includes NTrs and everyone else of good conscience.

Would President Hillary Clinton have;

1. Put Justice Gorsuch on the Supreme Court.
2. Ended DACA and the used it as a bargaining chip for better Border enforcement and a wall.
3. Exited the Paris Agreement.
4. Brought down NAFTA and reset for a new negotiation across the board.it.
5. Ended Obamacare insurance subsidies of over 7 billion dollars.
6. Deeply cut government regulation.
7. Nominated large numbers of Conservative justices to the Federal courts.
8. Decertified the Iran deal.
9. Stood up to NFL players disrespecting the anthem, flag and our national identity.
10. Proposed deep cuts in Corporate tax rates across the board.
11. Proposed deep cuts in taxes for the middle class.
12. Waged war against grotesque liberal media bias.
13. Imposed immigration limits on terror risk nations and fought for them in the courts.
14. Set the Justice Department and the admin to oppose "Sanctuary" cities.
15. Allowed private companies/insurers to NOT provide abortion coverage against their own moral views.
16. Opposed hysterical calls for strong new gun control legislation following the Vegas shooting.
17. Advocated for increased defense spending and revitalization in particular of our decaying naval forces.
18. Supported police and law enforcement at every turn against groups like ANTIFA and BLM.
19. Called consistently for protection of the unborn, and supporting a strict post 20 week ban on abortions.
20. Fought for new legislation, even if congress failed in its part, to repeal Obamacare.

This is just a partial list, but it should make clear to those who like to claim the President is a liberal just like Clinton and/or the Dems in general...and that it matters not between he and Hillary who won the White House. Well, guess what? It matters...and it matters in a YUGE way. Those of us who have supported Trump see all of his flaws, no less than those who consider themselves NT's, but we also see the vast and Conservatively positive differences between himself and Clinton. And while his conservatism may not be as pure as some like, nor his history as devoid of moderate to left associations whilst he was a businessman, this list demonstrates just how strongly he is and has been fighting for conservatism.

I post this for one reason, and one reason only...that those of you who are conservatives but not supporters of the President....and yes, I and nearly all Trump supporters respect your position...will now come around and join with us in what is quickly becoming an existential cultural and ideological struggle for the future of this nation. You are needed, just as we pro Trump folks will be needed down the road when a President Pence or President Cruz are fighting the radical Left. No one asks that anyone set aside their views or halt all critiques of policies and behaviors you disagree with...just that you let the bigger picture of what we face from the Left persuade you get back into the fight FOR an imperfect Republican President.

[roamer_1]

*YAWN*
Principles.

[Mesaclone]

*YAWN*
Principles.

Yes. We all have principles, or are you childishly implying that those who oppose the President have stronger principles than those who support him?

More importantly, the 20 points laid out remain...all relevant to conservative "principles" and all critical to our future as a nation. You wisely avoided addressing these, as they powerfully refute any argument about principles being the basis on which one would oppose the President and his policies.

[roamer_1]

Yes. We all have principles, or are you childishly implying that those who oppose the President have stronger principles than those who support him?

Yes, that must be unequivocally true... wrt Conservatism anyway. If liberal principles are your bag... or shifting principles (which really aren't principles at all, now, right?)...

More importantly, the 20 points laid out remain...all relevant to conservative "principles" and all critical to our future as a nation. You wisely avoided addressing these, as they powerfully refute any argument about principles being the basis on which one would oppose the President and his policies.

LOL!

More blowing sunshine up people's skirts.
DACA isn't gone.
Neither is the Paris Agreement.
Neither is NAFTA.
Shall I go on?

[truth_seeker]

Can this thread reach 500 posts, with NTers "virtue signaling" their same olde tired BS ??

[Mesaclone]

Yes, that must be unequivocally true... wrt Conservatism anyway. If liberal principles are your bag... or shifting principles (which really aren't principles at all, now, right?)...

LOL!

More blowing sunshine up people's skirts.
DACA isn't gone.
Neither is the Paris Agreement.
Neither is NAFTA.
Shall I go on?

My principles are constant, as are those of nearly every Trump supporter I've met. No doubt, there are some in any political camp who blow with the wind, but this is as true of NT's as of Trump voters.

You can go on as you wish, but your 3 given statements ignore that a) DACA is functionally ended, and exists now only as a bargaining chip...which put simply...is plain wise strategy on the President's part. b) as to NAFTA and Paris, it is Trump who is suspending and forcing new terms to fit a conservative agenda...whether or not they technically exist does not override the import of his actions on both. Technically, he is renegotiating NAFTA to gain the terms he wants to protect US jobs...and he is clear that if he doesn't get that he will complete our withdrawal. These things are not complete over night, but in real political terms our withdrawal from both of these accords is effectively complete...though a new and radically different version of each may yet become part of a new agreement.

Next, let's hear from you how Gorsuch may end up converting to extreme liberalism in a few years and thus his appointment by President Trump is insignificant to conservative goals. As your previous refutations above were in similar vein, I'd expect no less than your recitation of how these obvious conservative actions are just ephemeral and/or actually liberalism disguised as conservative acts. I would look forward to you engaging in a serious discussion of these issues, but it would be more interesting if you could refrain from disingenuous understatement of these rather clear conservative accomplishments.

Trump Ends DACA Program
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-dreamers-daca-immigration-announcement-n798686

Trump Still Taking US Out of Paris Agreement
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/19/trump-is-not-reversing-on-paris-agreement-heres-why.html


And as a balance...please state where you think we'd be heading under Hillary as regards NAFTA and Paris...or where DACA would be at this point. Why do you ignore where the President's opponent would have taken us...as a key part of this discussion is just how radically different a Hillary presidency would have been from President Trump's Republican presidency.

[roamer_1]

My principles are constant, as are those of nearly every Trump supporter I've met.

Yeah... well.. We've had this conversation before.
To put it kindly, we'll just agree to disagree on that.

[Mesaclone]

Yeah... well.. We've had this conversation before.
To put it kindly, we'll just agree to disagree on that.

If you believe yourself more principled than the fellow Republicans with which you disagree, you are blinded by one of two things...or perhaps both acting in concert. Arrogance or Ignorance. To put it kindly, as you say.

But lets put aside the personal tit for tat...if we each see the other as unprincipled, that's not really something we can resolve on an internet discussion board.
 
I'd rather, as pertains to the 20 issues listed, hear your arguments as to how Hillary's policy goals would not have differed from the President's...which has to be the contention of those who proclaim they won't support either because "there's no difference" between them.

[Emjay]

*YAWN*
Principles.

You should be ashamed.  Have you nothing to say?  Apparently not, so why post?

[Emjay]

My principles are constant, as are those of nearly every Trump supporter I've met. No doubt, there are some in any political camp who blow with the wind, but this is as true of NT's as of Trump voters.

You can go on as you wish, but your 3 given statements ignore that a) DACA is functionally ended, and exists now only as a bargaining chip...which put simply...is plain wise strategy on the President's part. b) as to NAFTA and Paris, it is Trump who is suspending and forcing new terms to fit a conservative agenda...whether or not they technically exist does not override the import of his actions on both. Technically, he is renegotiating NAFTA to gain the terms he wants to protect US jobs...and he is clear that if he doesn't get that he will complete our withdrawal. These things are not complete over night, but in real political terms our withdrawal from both of these accords is effectively complete...though a new and radically different version of each may yet become part of a new agreement.

Next, let's hear from you how Gorsuch may end up converting to extreme liberalism in a few years and thus his appointment by President Trump is insignificant to conservative goals. As your previous refutations above were in similar vein, I'd expect no less than your recitation of how these obvious conservative actions are just ephemeral and/or actually liberalism disguised as conservative acts. I would look forward to you engaging in a serious discussion of these issues, but it would be more interesting if you could refrain from disingenuous understatement of these rather clear conservative accomplishments.

Trump Ends DACA Program
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/trump-dreamers-daca-immigration-announcement-n798686

Trump Still Taking US Out of Paris Agreement
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/19/trump-is-not-reversing-on-paris-agreement-heres-why.html


And as a balance...please state where you think we'd be heading under Hillary as regards NAFTA and Paris...or where DACA would be at this point. Why do you ignore where the President's opponent would have taken us...as a key part of this discussion is just how radically different a Hillary presidency would have been from President Trump's Republican presidency.

Thanks for posting that list.  It is impressive.  I would strongly suggest not engaging with Roamer as he is not one to see reason.  I've tried to talk to him too many times.

I always win but I never get through to him.

[RoosGirl]

You should be ashamed.  Have you nothing to say?  Apparently not, so why post?

[Mesaclone]

Emjay, I will endeavor to follow your advice.

Its hard to have serious discussions with anyone who thinks they have principles and those with whom they disagree do not. Only someone with very little life experience could take such a ridiculous position...or...they are simply using the principle argument to cover the complete lack of an intellectual argument for their position. Its a very "liberal" approach to political discourse that attempts to shut down discussion by claiming moral superiority. And you are right, its best left to fester in its own swamp of self aggrandizement.

[aligncare]

You should be ashamed.  Have you nothing to say?  Apparently not, so why post?

I think that answer is covered under the word “signaling.”

[aligncare]

Emjay, I will endeavor to follow your advice.

Its hard to have serious discussions with anyone who thinks they have principles and those with whom they disagree do not. Only someone with very little life experience could take such a ridiculous position...or...they are simply using the principle argument to cover the complete lack of an intellectual argument for their position. Its a very "liberal" approach to political discourse that attempts to shut down discussion by claiming moral superiority. And you are right, its best left to fester in its own swamp of self aggrandizement.

I like to frame it like this (when I’m challenged on “principles”):

I supported Ronald Reagan, George HW Bush, George W Bush, and Donald Trump. Those were my best possible choices in the voting booth. So there’s nothing else I need to say.

I’m comfortable with my conservative bona fides and happy to reply to anyone who’s open and honest and doesn’t feel the need to attack my person because they don’t like my views. That’s a conversation nonstarter.

[roamer_1]

If you believe yourself more principled than the fellow Republicans with which you disagree, you are blinded by one of two things...or perhaps both acting in concert. Arrogance or Ignorance. To put it kindly, as you say.

Concatenating 'Republican' and 'Conservative' is your first mistake. And a dire one.
And I am not a Republican any longer.

But lets put aside the personal tit for tat...if we each see the other as unprincipled, that's not really something we can resolve on an internet discussion board.

Or in life - You and I have already been proven to be in entirely separate eco-systems, if not indeed, worlds apart.
 

I'd rather, as pertains to the 20 issues listed, hear your arguments as to how Hillary's policy goals would not have differed from the President's...which has to be the contention of those who proclaim they won't support either because "there's no difference" between them.

In the first place, your bullet points are unproven, and in fact, as already demonstrated, provably false. If something is a 'bargaining chip', it is still very necessarily 'on the table'.

Secondly: 'And Mussolini made the trains run on time' = Even IF you have twenty talking points that are actually TRUE (which you do not), that doesn't preclude damage in other ways... If he does institute 'single payer', or if he does start WWIII (Examples only), whatever else he might do around the edges will pale in comparison.

So as a matter of FACT, his being 'better than Hillary' is still very much to be determined, if it can be determined at all...

Not that I give two shits if/that he is, because setting such an incredibly low bar for success is simply insanity.

[roamer_1]

You should be ashamed.  Have you nothing to say?  Apparently not, so why post?

I have said it all already. OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

[RoosGirl]

I have said it all already. OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

I would strongly suggest not engaging with Emjay as she is not one to see reason.  I've tried to talk to her too many times.   

[roamer_1]

I would strongly suggest not engaging with Emjay as she is not one to see reason.  I've tried to talk to her too many times.   

:P

[Emjay]

Yes, @RoosGirl has tried to talk to me too many times.  I wish she'd give it up and also give up talking behind my back.

[RoosGirl]

Yes, @RoosGirl has tried to talk to me too many times.  I wish she'd give it up and also give up talking behind my back.

[roamer_1]

.

Aaaugh! I hate that pic... It's contagious.

Now I need a nap. 

[RoosGirl]

Aaaugh! I hate that pic... It's contagious.

Now I need a nap. 

LOL  I about went into a coma just finding it and getting it posted.  But I fought through it because I knew how much it would add.

[Cyber Liberty]

First of all, setting aside unwise campaign rhetoric, we need all conservatives back in this struggle. That includes NTrs and everyone else of good conscience.

Would President Hillary Clinton have;

(snip)

A good, positive list of accomplishments.  Thanks for that.

[aligncare]

A good, positive list of accomplishments.  Thanks for that.

And it doesn’t even include what Trump unleashed yesterday and today! Purchasing insurance interstate and decertification of the Iran deal! Kool.

[Cyber Liberty]

And it doesn’t even include what Trump unleashed yesterday and today! Purchasing insurance interstate and decertification of the Iran deal! Kool.

Yes indeed.  I am very pleased with that, especially opening the door to interstate insurance purchases.  That alone is worth the price of admission!