Democrats Intro Automatic Gun-Fire Prevention Act to Ban Gun Parts

[Elderberry]

Ammoland By John Crump 10/5/2017

U.S.A. –-(Ammoland.com)- Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), who is no stranger to anti-gun legislation, has introduced a bill to close what she refers to as the “automatic weapon loophole.”

The Automatic Gun Fire Prevention Act would outlaw such devices as bump stocks, trigger cranks, binary, and any other instrument that would speed up the rate of fire for a semi-automatic rifle.

10,000's of owners of these devices would have 180 days to get rid of them or risk being in violation of the law. When reading through the text of the bill, there seems to be no grandfather clause.

    Without a grandfather clause, it would make Americans choose between having their rights violated or risk being charged with a crime.

More: https://www.ammoland.com/2017/10/automatic-gun-fire-prevention-act/

[DB]

It doesn't take much ingenuity to create something to repeatedly active the trigger... From simple mechanical devices to electronic...

It only affects law abiding people, no one else. And law abiding people aren't the problem...

[Elderberry]

It doesn't take much ingenuity to create something to repeatedly active the trigger... From simple mechanical devices to electronic...

It only affects law abiding people, no one else. And law abiding people aren't the problem...

Most law abiding people are dissuaded from the creation of illegal weapons due to the stiff penalties imposed if caught.

[Right_in_Virginia]

If automatic weapons are banned, it's going to be difficult to insist hardware turning a gun into an automatic weapon should remain legal.

Might want to develop a coherent argument for not banning bump stocks.

[Ancient]

Automatic weapons are not banned.  They are heavily regulated and restricted to old models that were grandfathered.  In short the very example you pick is an argument to the exact opposite of what you think.

My turn: There is analysis stating that there were less deaths due to use of the bump stock.  The gun loses considerable amounts of power and accuracy when used in this fashion.  Is the goal of the ban to have more deaths next time?

[andy58-in-nh]

[txradioguy]

If automatic weapons are banned, it's going to be difficult to insist hardware turning a gun into an automatic weapon should remain legal.

Might want to develop a coherent argument for not banning bump stocks.

You mean besides the fact it's a knee jerk reaction to a problem that won't stop?

If someone wants to illegally modify (remember bump stocks are legal thanks to Obama) a semi-auto rifle...they will find a way to do it.  This law won't stop the criminal element in our society from committing illegal acts....to include modifying weapons.

This law will do nothing to mitigate the illegal importation of fully automatic weapons into this country either.

[Meldrew]

The Automatic Gun Fire Prevention Act would outlaw such devices as bump stocks, trigger cranks, binary, and any other instrument that would speed up the rate of fire for a semi-automatic rifle.

And there's the problem.  We know that anti's have real difficulty with facts. Who defines what and how an instrument speeds up semi-auto fire.  The NYPD has 10 lb trigger pulls on service weapons specifically to slow them down and "make them safer" (resulting in more innocents shot btw).  Is my super cool new Timney 2-stage (not binary) trigger w/ the 4lb trigger pull now a prohibited device? 

I trust neither them nor their intent. 

[txradioguy]

And there's the problem.  We know that anti's have real difficulty with facts. Who defines what and how an instrument speeds up semi-auto fire.  The NYPD has 10 lb trigger pulls on service weapons specifically to slow them down and "make them safer" (resulting in more innocents shot btw).  Is my super cool new Timney 2-stage (not binary) trigger w/ the 4lb trigger pull now a prohibited device?

Pretty soon it will be legislation requiring mandatory double action (no single action) with a minimum of 15lb trigger pulls on all pistols and you'll only be allowed to own firearms in .22LR and .380 ACP calibers only.

That or some kind of mandatory device you wear on your finger that prevents you from pulling the trigger rapidly on semi-auto weapons of any time.

I trust neither them nor their intent.

I don't either.

I said this a couple weeks ago on a a firearms thread...I'll pose the question here again...how long does anyone think it will be before some of the states like California...Washington State and New York try to impose their draconian firearms laws on the military installations within their state borders?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Automatic weapons are not banned.  They are heavily regulated and restricted to old models that were grandfathered.  In short the very example you pick is an argument to the exact opposite of what you think. ... 

Then here's your argument:  don't ban bump stocks, regulate them the same as automatic weapons.   

Just stay away from the argument that nothing about bump stocks should change.

[txradioguy]

Then here's your argument:  don't ban bump stocks, regulate them the same as automatic weapons.   

Why should they be regulated like automatic weapons when the stock is not a weapon in and of itself?

Just stay away from the argument that nothing about bump stocks should change.

Why?  It's he truth.  Blaming the bump stock is just this weeks de rigueur excuse to go after guns and does nothing to address the real issue.

That a man...a living breathing human being killed those people.

The guns didn't do it...the person that picked them up did.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Why should they be regulated like automatic weapons when the stock is not a weapon in and of itself?

Because bump stocks turn guns into automatic weapons. 

[Meldrew]

Then here's your argument:  don't ban bump stocks, regulate them the same as automatic weapons.   

Just stay away from the argument that nothing about bump stocks should change.

Pretty much what the NRA is proposing by kicking it back to the ATF.

[txradioguy]

Because bump stocks turn guns into automatic weapons.

So does altering certain pieces within the trigger mechanism of a legally purchased semi automatic rifle.

Banning bump stops or trigger cranks won't stop people from modifying semi-automatic rifles into fully automatic ones any more than federally regulating the barrel length on shotguns has stopped people from illegally shortening the barrels to make sawed off shotguns.

If you knew anything about guns you'd know this.

All that will happen is that it allows Liberals one more avenue to come in and implement a full ban on guns and short of that specific types of guns in full violation of the 2nd Amendment.

[Right_in_Virginia]

So does altering certain pieces within the trigger mechanism of a legally purchased semi automatic rifle.

Banning bump stops or trigger cranks won't stop people from modifying semi-automatic rifles into fully automatic ones ...

So .....  is your argument the government should not at least try and slow down the people who want to kill more innocents than their unmodified gun will facilitate?

[GtHawk]

So .....  is your argument the government should not at least try and slow down the people who want to kill more innocents than their unmodified gun will facilitate?

Will you then argue that the government should place more restrictions on the First Amendment because some people use inflammatory language and rhetoric which results in innocents being injured and killed? Where does it stop with the government placing more controls on our freedoms because of the actions of a few? Do you really believe that the left will be happy with just limiting the the Second Amendment, after all just look at how much more they could accomplish if only they could control that pesky First Amendment that allows people to hear a viewpoint different from their own.

 The whole safety argument is on shaky ground, if someone wants or is insane enough to kill large numbers they will, Paddock could have rented a a plane, loaded it with fuel and crashed it into the crowd, or ala Europe he could have driven a semi right through the gates and slaughtered and injured many more. Guns are a tool used by man to kill, but man has created many many tools which can be turned to nefarious and evil purposes which they were never intended for to kill, and there will always be a sick individual that comes up with a way and implements it.

[txradioguy]

So .....  is your argument the government should not at least try and slow down the people who want to kill more innocents than their unmodified gun will facilitate?

What track record does the Government at any level have that shows they are capable of stopping anyone from killing a large group of people if they have the motivation and desire to inflict such evil on innocent people?

There are roughly 16,000 gun laws on the books on at every level as it is.  How about enforcing a few of those instead of enacting one more useless law that accomplishes nothing except to make Liberals feel good?

[txradioguy]

Nothing like a good discussion about guns and the second amendment to unmask the big government types amongst us.

[Right_in_Virginia]

What track record does the Government at any level have that shows they are capable of stopping anyone from killing a large group of people if they have the motivation and desire to inflict such evil on innocent people?

There are roughly 16,000 gun laws on the books on at every level as it is.  How about enforcing a few of those instead of enacting one more useless law that accomplishes nothing except to make Liberals feel good?

I want you to keep your guns ... enjoy them, shoot the crap out of vermin and targets of line drawn, faceless men.  Conceal a handgun on your person and in your car at all times. 

I don't want a gun owner to be able to easily buy something that turns his or her legal weapon into an automatic weapon.  This is because I still have not heard one rational reason why anyone needs an automatic weapon .... other than to quickly kill lots and lots of people. 

Can owners modify a gun all by themselves?  Yes.  Do we have an obligation to help them?  No.

So placing bump stocks under the same regulations as automatic weapons is not a rational place to fall on your sword.  No one is coming for your gun.

We'll talk further if they come for your rubber bands.

[txradioguy]

I don't want a gun owner to be able to easily buy something that turns his or her legal weapon into an automatic weapon.  This is because I still have not heard one rational reason why anyone needs an automatic weapon .... other than to quickly kill lots and lots of people. 

You haven't made a rational reason why the Government shouldn't abide by the 2nd Amendment and stay out of this.

But then that's the problem...you're coming at this from an emotional angle instead of a rational logical position.

Can owners modify a gun all by themselves?  Yes.  Do we have an obligation to help them?  No.

Then fine...don't help them.  Stay away from them.  Don't be in their presence.

Not sure how you'll know you're in their presence but hey knock yourself out.

So placing bump stocks under the same regulations as automatic weapons is not a rational place to fall on your sword.  No one is coming for your gun.

Sure they aren't.  Bump stocks aren't the same as a fully automatic rifle or machine pistol.  Only people who don't know anything about guns think the two are the same.

We'll talk further if they come for your rubber bands.

The EPA...CDC and FDA already have.

Creeping Liberalism.  You're like that frog in the pot of water that doesn't realize it's being boiled until it's too late.

[Meldrew]

There are roughly 16,000 gun laws on the books on at every level as it is.

On a natural right that "shall not be infringed" no less. Amazing. 

First question about any proposal should be "how is this different/better than the other 16,000 laws on the books? 

[Elderberry]

Bump stocks aren't the same as a fully automatic rifle or machine pistol.  Only people who don't know anything about guns think the two are the same.

I don't think bump stocks are the same as a fully automatic weapon, but I do see a similarity between bump stocks and Auto Sears.

One places a firearm into a bump stock and it becomes fully automatic.

One places an auto sear into a firearm and it becomes fully automatic.

An auto sear is treated as an NFA Class3 item.

A bump stock is not, but performs a very similar function.

I know, thinking this means I don't know anything about guns.

[txradioguy]

I don't think bump stocks are the same as a fully automatic weapon, but I do see a similarity between bump stocks and Auto Sears.

One places a firearm into a bump stock and it becomes fully automatic.

One places an auto sear into a firearm and it becomes fully automatic.

An auto sear is treated as an NFA Class3 item.

A bump stock is not, but performs a very similar function.

I know, thinking this means I don't know anything about guns.

But turning bump stocks into an NFA Class three item won't stop a mass shooting like what happened Las Vegas.

That is my problem with trying to put regulations on them.

It's a fig leaf feel good measure that accomplishes nothing.

[Elderberry]

But turning bump stocks into an NFA Class three item won't stop a mass shooting like what happened Las Vegas.

That is my problem with trying to put regulations on them.

It's a fig leaf feel good measure that accomplishes nothing.

Do you realize how many idiots are now wanting to convert their firearms too?

If the sale of bump stocks is not regulated, then you'll see their sales explode.

Do you really think ignoring the problem and doing nothing is the right approach to take?

[roamer_1]

Then here's your argument:  don't ban bump stocks, regulate them the same as automatic weapons.   

Just stay away from the argument that nothing about bump stocks should change.

This is idiocy! I have said elsewhere, a bump stock can be made from a pencil and a rubber band! How the hell do you regulate that?

SO WHAT someone sells a plastic device that does the same.