Author Topic: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says  (Read 7761 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #50 on: October 03, 2017, 09:03:02 pm »
Based on their views of other human's life and rights and their own elevated views of their own power, it could easily be argued they were clinical sociopaths.

Oh, I would say they were clearly psychopaths.  But, that's not irrational or crazy. 

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #51 on: October 03, 2017, 09:05:50 pm »
I'm back to saying don't try to rationalize the behavior of irrational people.  Just because it makes sense to them, doesn't mean it makes sense to rational people.

Looks like we are arguing over what "rational" is. 

Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #52 on: October 03, 2017, 09:12:08 pm »
Looks like we are arguing over what "rational" is.

Perhaps.  Do you think there exists logical and reasonable steps of justification for this action?  I don't.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #53 on: October 03, 2017, 09:14:33 pm »
Perhaps.  Do you think there exists logical and reasonable steps of justification for this action?  I don't.

No.  To you and me there are not logical or reasonable justifications for this.  And why not?  Because we hold that human life has more value than whatever point this guy was trying to make.  He doesn't value human life that much.  Does that make him irrational?

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #54 on: October 03, 2017, 10:34:31 pm »
Beginning to wonder if he was part of a bigger plot and the rest of his posse was a no show.
Two broken windows and numerous weapons.
Something wrong with this entire scenario.
That thought crossed my mind, too. Looks like he was set up to party and no one showed. @txradioguy and I touched on that earlier or in another thread. 4, maybe 6, rifles for two shooting positions and to let them cool, stacks of mags and a handgun or two for when the door came down should have been plenty. It's like he was expecting some friends before the shooting started.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #55 on: October 03, 2017, 10:42:33 pm »
Speaking from personal experience, you can darn near drive yourself crazy trying to rationalize the behavior of an irrational person.
True, but if there is enough to study, you can discern a pattern, and behind that pattern, there is usually a twisted rationale. It might be, for instance that he hated music, but thought the only way to get rid of it was to kill off enough fans to eliminate the market. It doesn't make sense to us, and no rational person would think it would ever succeed, but if that was his thinking and fit his notions of how the world works, to him it would make perfect sense. It is trying to sort out what rationale dominated in his mind, no matter how irrational or reality bending we see it.
As Christians or Jews we don't see blowing one's self up on a crowded bus as a ticket to eternal paradise, but others do, for instance. When you understand the mindset that led them there, they become more predictable in their behaviour.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #56 on: October 03, 2017, 10:47:16 pm »
That's all true, and all that's missing is the 'why' - And really, that's the only part that matters to me at this point.
That part is all important to resisting the building anti-gun jihad. If there is some rationale behind his actions, a known terrorist affiliation, a source of breaking-point distress, or other motivation that can be discerned, the apparent randomness of the act is significantly reduced, and the evil part is exposed.

I expect the Obamacare lovers to push for a battery of tests (to be paid for by your obamacare) to decide if you are 'sane' enough to have a firearm. (Sane defined by some liberal shrink, who just might start with the premise that only a lunatic would want to own a firearm.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #57 on: October 03, 2017, 10:53:42 pm »
Perhaps.  Do you think there exists logical and reasonable steps of justification for this action?  I don't.
In the normal western cultured mind? Nope. But that may not be what we are dealing with here.

Maybe he saw the crowd as the meeting of all those critters that steal socks out of the dryer, gathered together and hiding in plain sight as country music fans but really getting their target list for the next decade in code hidden in the music and decided to save countless humans from the frustration, time involved, and expense of looking for that other sock.

We don't know what was going on in his head, so we can't say what frame of reference nor base assumptions were used in him arriving at the point where he apparently thought shooting out a hotel window and murdering dozens of people was a good idea.

But somewhere in there, he went to a lot of trouble to plan, set up, and execute that plan, which implies the capability to think rationally, even if we don't consider his acts nor the motivation (whatever that was) to be rational in our own set of values, rules, and beliefs we perceive as rational thought. He's running under different rules. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #58 on: October 03, 2017, 11:31:09 pm »
My conservative brother left me a phone message last night. He said, "you're not going to like this but I think that any assault weapon should not be in the hands of private citizens." He's right, I don't like it that the gun is the focus and not the perp.

Ask him what an "assault" weapon is... Anything that looks scary is an "assault" weapon according the left.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2017, 11:36:48 pm »
Perhaps.  Do you think there exists logical and reasonable steps of justification for this action?  I don't.

Evil doesn't need justification.  Evil just needs a vessel through which to act.
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Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #60 on: October 03, 2017, 11:39:29 pm »
No.  To you and me there are not logical or reasonable justifications for this.  And why not?  Because we hold that human life has more value than whatever point this guy was trying to make.  He doesn't value human life that much.  Does that make him irrational?

There is far more wrong than not valuing life.  I don't value trash.  I don't go through extensive efforts to make a public scene destroying trash.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #61 on: October 03, 2017, 11:48:06 pm »
There is far more wrong than not valuing life.  I don't value trash.  I don't go through extensive efforts to make a public scene destroying trash.

Yes - but, it's not an issue of trash.  And, obviously he was seriously torqued about something.  I'm not sure how this applies to the original topic or rational vs irrational.

Offline austingirl

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2017, 12:48:48 am »
Ask him what an "assault" weapon is... Anything that looks scary is an "assault" weapon according the left.

Thanks. I may just text him and ask what SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED means to him.
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2017, 12:56:34 am »
That part is all important to resisting the building anti-gun jihad. If there is some rationale behind his actions, a known terrorist affiliation, a source of breaking-point distress, or other motivation that can be discerned, the apparent randomness of the act is significantly reduced, and the evil part is exposed.

I expect the Obamacare lovers to push for a battery of tests (to be paid for by your obamacare) to decide if you are 'sane' enough to have a firearm. (Sane defined by some liberal shrink, who just might start with the premise that only a lunatic would want to own a firearm.)

Well, yes and no... They have never let truth get in their way... :/

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2017, 01:31:47 am »
Well, yes and no... They have never let truth get in their way... :/
It isn't a question of convincing them, but preventing them from convincing others.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2017, 02:14:19 am »
My bet is Trump is the weak link on holding the line on our 2nd amendment rights.

He's a populist and now the wind is blowing in a different direction...

He was campaigning for "assault" weapons ban as recently as 2000.

Offline DCPatriot

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2017, 03:44:56 am »
Sheriff Floats Possibility Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Was “RADICALIZED”
October 3, 2017 by Joshua Caplan

   

In a shocking turn of events, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo is now floating the possibility that the Las Vegas gunman, Stephen Paddock could have been radicalized. Law enforcement are currently investigating the matter.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/sheriff-floats-possibility-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-radicalized/

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oy vey.......the conspiracy theories will grow exponentially.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2017, 03:53:17 am »
Sheriff Floats Possibility Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Was “RADICALIZED”
October 3, 2017 by Joshua Caplan

   

In a shocking turn of events, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo is now floating the possibility that the Las Vegas gunman, Stephen Paddock could have been radicalized. Law enforcement are currently investigating the matter.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/sheriff-floats-possibility-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-radicalized/

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Oy vey.......the conspiracy theories will grow exponentially.
Why would he float that without some reason to?

If the FeeBIes have said this "...is not a terrorist act, well, that's two....

Why else would some well to do seemingly normal white man suddenly open up on a crowd of people?

Unless there is a blackmail/hostage angle in there somewhere.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2017, 01:46:09 pm »
My bet is Trump is the weak link on holding the line on our 2nd amendment rights.

He's a populist and now the wind is blowing in a different direction...

He was campaigning for "assault" weapons ban as recently as 2000.
@DB 

Agreed.

He's now down in Puerto Rico.  The key is to keep him occupied with other things.
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Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2017, 01:47:36 pm »
@DB 

Agreed.

He's now down in Puerto Rico.  The key is to keep him occupied with other things.

He is headed to Las Vegas today.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/04/politics/trump-las-vegas-massacre/index.html

President Donald Trump, hours after visiting Puerto Rico to survey the damage wrought by Hurricane Maria, returns to the role of comforter-in-chief when he visits Las Vegas on Wednesday, days after the deadliest shooting in modern American history.
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2017, 04:15:20 pm »
I read earlier today (sorry, don't have the link) that he had -twelve- of the rifles in the room fitted with bump-stocks.

Prediction:
Bump-stocks are "goin' away" before too much longer...

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #71 on: October 04, 2017, 04:19:01 pm »
I read earlier today (sorry, don't have the link) that he had -twelve- of the rifles in the room fitted with bump-stocks.

Prediction:
Bump-stocks are "goin' away" before too much longer...

Yes I've heard that from several sources and have seen pictures of a couple with them.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #72 on: October 04, 2017, 07:14:54 pm »
I read earlier today (sorry, don't have the link) that he had -twelve- of the rifles in the room fitted with bump-stocks.

Prediction:
Bump-stocks are "goin' away" before too much longer...
The principle remains, and can be duplicated with with far more rudimentary devices.
I suspect bump stocks will be reclassified as Class III parts.
My question is one of whether or not he had factory full auto capable weapons (Class III)
Or illegal conversions to full auto.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #73 on: October 04, 2017, 08:37:12 pm »
Smokin' Joe wrote:
"My question is one of whether or not he had factory full auto capable weapons (Class III)"

I'm going to -guess- that he did not.

With 12 bump-fire modified AR rifles lined up and ready-to-go, that was all he needed. Seems to fall in line with other reports that the firing was broken up into 11 or so sequences -- as he changed weapons.

Is Congressional legislation required for the ATF (or whoever it is that makes such "classification" decisions) to act?
Or... can it act on its own?

I was thinking of this earlier. IF Congress acts to "ban" bump-fire stock accessories, it's quite possible that the subsequent legislation might "go further", with additional bans and restrictions. We clearly don't want that.

BUT -- IF the manufacturers of these devices could be... um... "persuaded" to voluntarily withdraw them from production, such legislation wouldn't be necessary.(Doubtless the left would press for it anyway, but Republicans might be able to resist it under such a scenario.

This would be the better way out of a bad situation.

Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says
« Reply #74 on: October 04, 2017, 09:01:32 pm »
Smokin' Joe wrote:
"My question is one of whether or not he had factory full auto capable weapons (Class III)"

I'm going to -guess- that he did not.

With 12 bump-fire modified AR rifles lined up and ready-to-go, that was all he needed. Seems to fall in line with other reports that the firing was broken up into 11 or so sequences -- as he changed weapons.

Is Congressional legislation required for the ATF (or whoever it is that makes such "classification" decisions) to act?
Or... can it act on its own?

I was thinking of this earlier. IF Congress acts to "ban" bump-fire stock accessories, it's quite possible that the subsequent legislation might "go further", with additional bans and restrictions. We clearly don't want that.

BUT -- IF the manufacturers of these devices could be... um... "persuaded" to voluntarily withdraw them from production, such legislation wouldn't be necessary.(Doubtless the left would press for it anyway, but Republicans might be able to resist it under such a scenario.

This would be the better way out of a bad situation.

You might get the majors to do this, but lots of minors will still have them available.  It is not a complicated or expensive device.  Just a bit of spring to let the recoil of the rifle bounce back into your trigger finger, firing again.  Lots of home-made versions before they became popular manufactured items.
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