Author Topic: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay  (Read 99522 times)

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1450 on: October 11, 2017, 10:03:20 am »
@Smokin Joe @driftdiver @roamer_1

Something interesting that's up on FoxNews.com (the link at the bottom has a number of different stories):

'MGM Resorts International, owner of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, has questioned the new timeline. "We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline that has been communicated publically (sic), and we believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate," Debra DeShong, a spokeswoman for MGM, said in a statement.'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/fox-news-first-clintons-obamas-cant-escape-ties-to-weinstein-new-questions-about-las-vegas-massacre.html

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1451 on: October 11, 2017, 10:24:07 am »
@Smokin Joe @driftdiver @roamer_1

Something interesting that's up on FoxNews.com (the link at the bottom has a number of different stories):

'MGM Resorts International, owner of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, has questioned the new timeline. "We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline that has been communicated publically (sic), and we believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate," Debra DeShong, a spokeswoman for MGM, said in a statement.'

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/fox-news-first-clintons-obamas-cant-escape-ties-to-weinstein-new-questions-about-las-vegas-massacre.html
That statement is disputed here:http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/11/mgm-resorts-disputes-las-vegas-police-timeline-shooting.html and better reported, here: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/10/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-change-raises-questions-about-hotel-security-police-response.html

The MGM statement came from a public relations firm, and my bet is that they are trying to reduce their liability profile in all this. If the shooter had fired 200 rounds at the security guard and wounded him, the management should have been aware there was a problem, and had police notified and responding before the shooter started firing on the concert. That would have reduced the response time, even though it is unlikely it owuld have completely prevented the incident. But because time equals rounds downrange, some lawyer somewhere is going to try to make hay out of that if they can (It's what they do!), and the more MGM can call that delay into question,  the less likely they will face any sort of lawsuit.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 10:29:09 am by Smokin Joe »
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1452 on: October 11, 2017, 10:42:10 am »
What a mess.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1453 on: October 11, 2017, 10:58:51 am »
What a mess.
As long as the investigation appears to be a mess, and the motives of the shooter are unclear, the left can blame the device used, instead of the ideology of the shooter, incompetence on the part of any security staff or other folks, or any group which may have influenced an allegedly wealthy man to become a mass murderer (presuming he acted alone and perpetrated the crime).

There may be many layers to this that end up reading like a spy novel, but if that was disclosed in any credible way, the whole idea of banning something else would go out the window, because people would no longer attribute the crime to an inert device, but the demented workings on one or more humans, and possibly some cultural belief or other factor.

It serves the Left to keep the confusion going, and the more muddle seems to be there, the more they can convey the idea that law enforcement isn't enough, they have to ban something.
As in Sandy Hook, when the emotional response calmed somewhat and the shooting became the product of a demented kid, the wind went out of the sails of the anti-RKBA folks, and they don't want to wait until the facts are known to push emotionally based legislation out of fear that when people find out this hoopla is over a piece of plastic that can't fire a bullet, the whole movement will lose momentum and stall.

I might add, I'm damned disappointed in the NRA over their response in this, too.

If we go there, if we decide the crime is somehow the device's fault and ban the device, what device will be next? What happened to punishing criminals, not things?--and especially not the law abiding gun owner?

"Guns don't kill people, people do. " was once a slogan, and if the NRA is willing to trade off any part of a firearm over this, they lose my support (Golden Eagle Member since the SATF ended, and was a charter member of that).

As for MGM and the hotel/staff, they are in CYA mode, and keeping things muddled may mean paying a lot fewer lawyers a lot less in the long run. Even a successful defense costs money.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 11:01:46 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline verga

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1454 on: October 11, 2017, 11:43:10 am »
Robots are helpful. But what are you going to do if the door is closed? And to have stopped him you'll have to arm the robot. Is that legal?
@DB link Up thread it said that approximately 200 rounds were put through the door. 200 rounds are going to leave some pretty big holes you can put a camera through. second there are a lot of non-lethal choices, tear gas, flash bang grenade, Taser, to name three off the top of my head. Any of  these would either disable or disorient someone enough to make a breach more feasible or safer.
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Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1455 on: October 11, 2017, 12:03:23 pm »
@DB link Quite a few departmetns have those remote control robots now. I don't know if LVPD does, but given the fact that it is a fairly large city...........

They have them:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/03/police-robots-find-explosives-guns-ammunition-las-vegas-shooter/
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Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1456 on: October 11, 2017, 12:09:35 pm »
@DB link Up thread it said that approximately 200 rounds were put through the door. 200 rounds are going to leave some pretty big holes you can put a camera through. second there are a lot of non-lethal choices, tear gas, flash bang grenade, Taser, to name three off the top of my head. Any of  these would either disable or disorient someone enough to make a breach more feasible or safer.

200 rounds are also going to leave big enough holes that approaching the door without being seen is unlikely.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1457 on: October 11, 2017, 12:38:01 pm »
200 rounds are also going to leave big enough holes that approaching the door without being seen is unlikely.
One of those little robots with a camera could get a peek, though.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline austingirl

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1458 on: October 11, 2017, 01:25:53 pm »
Today's "developments" cooperative girlfriend is now on the no fly list. Her attorney is saying her role in the shooter's life changed over time from an intimate companion to "caretaker." That's odd. He was apparently didn't need any caretaking to buy those guns, ammo, body armor etc. This narrative is absurd on its face.

Sheriff states shooter's brain was "normal."
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1459 on: October 11, 2017, 01:27:04 pm »
Curiouser and curiouser.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1460 on: October 11, 2017, 01:33:25 pm »
Today's "developments" cooperative girlfriend is now on the no fly list. Her attorney is saying her role in the shooter's life changed over time from an intimate companion to "caretaker." That's odd. He was apparently didn't need any caretaking to buy those guns, ammo, body armor etc. This narrative is absurd on its face.

Sheriff states shooter's brain was "normal."

I suppose "normal" as in no organic, physiological cause of mental illness, such as a brain tumor or a concussion?  But he could still have had mental illness without any physical cause. 

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1461 on: October 11, 2017, 01:37:14 pm »
200 rounds are also going to leave big enough holes that approaching the door without being seen is unlikely.

Assuming the report of 200 rounds is correct.   I saw a fox report with a couple members of the swat team.  The swat team guy, he was one of those that breached the room, said you could see in through the holes.  He said he saw rifles and a body.

The pictures we have of that door show the top half of the left door (it was a double door) missing.   The suspect may have stood behind it and sprayed a bunch of rounds down the hallway.  200 rounds would have required reloading even using the 100rd drums the guy had in the room.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1462 on: October 11, 2017, 01:38:50 pm »
One of those little robots with a camera could get a peek, though.

Those robots aren't fast and deploying one to the 32 floor would have taken time.  The hotels are HUGE and even carrying it would have taken 10-15 minutes.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1463 on: October 11, 2017, 01:46:43 pm »
Today's "developments" cooperative girlfriend is now on the no fly list. Her attorney is saying her role in the shooter's life changed over time from an intimate companion to "caretaker." That's odd. He was apparently didn't need any caretaking to buy those guns, ammo, body armor etc. This narrative is absurd on its face.

Sheriff states shooter's brain was "normal."
I have a feeling there will be a lot of people distancing themselves, if for no other reason than CYA.

No tumor, means no pathology to support a personality change, maybe something in toxicology....

Otherwise, there is a different problem involved, and some other motive that might be possibly understood if the FeeBies don't muck up the investigation.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1464 on: October 11, 2017, 02:28:42 pm »
Her attorney is saying her role in the shooter's life changed over time from an intimate companion to "caretaker." That's odd. He was apparently didn't need any caretaking to buy those guns, ammo, body armor etc. This narrative is absurd on its face.


Probably 'caretaker' in shrink oriented alcohol/drug-abuse addiction lingo.
Kinda this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-caretaking-the-borderline-or-narcissist/201404/when-relationships-are-based-manipulation

or this:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/adult-children-addicted-alcoholic-parents/168187-roles-alcoholic-family.html

Offline edpc

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1465 on: October 11, 2017, 02:36:16 pm »
The stories and info keep changing, but the latest could mean he was in the process of setting up, when the guard came along to investigate the door alarm.  After seeing him on the cameras, Paddock fired through the door.  The long pause before opening up on the crowd may have been Paddock breaking windows out and setting up in haste.

All a big guess on my part, since new information comes out frequently and contradicts the previous release.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1466 on: October 11, 2017, 02:37:39 pm »
Probably 'caretaker' in shrink oriented alcohol/drug-abuse addiction lingo.
Kinda this:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/stop-caretaking-the-borderline-or-narcissist/201404/when-relationships-are-based-manipulation

or this:

https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/adult-children-addicted-alcoholic-parents/168187-roles-alcoholic-family.html

Sheriff gave an interview to the Las Vegas paper today saying that contrary to earlier reports, the GF had no concern over shooter's mental health. Also GF and brother Eric have not been cleared of wrongdoing.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1467 on: October 11, 2017, 04:41:15 pm »
Fly a drone with a camera right through the window.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1468 on: October 11, 2017, 05:12:51 pm »
Fly a drone with a camera right through the window.

Could have worked.  IIRC, there were drapes blowing out the window, but a skilled pilot should have been able to tease one through.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1469 on: October 11, 2017, 05:47:27 pm »
Could have worked.  IIRC, there were drapes blowing out the window, but a skilled pilot should have been able to tease one through.

That country singer probably had some up filming his event. Fly one through and even if it doesn't take pictures it may distract the shooter and he stops shooting people.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1470 on: October 11, 2017, 05:57:51 pm »
That country singer probably had some up filming his event. Fly one through and even if it doesn't take pictures it may distract the shooter and he stops shooting people.

No one on the ground knew where it was coming from.
If they had, and someone was quick to think, redirecting all the spotlights at him would have wrecked his vision.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1471 on: October 11, 2017, 06:17:28 pm »
That country singer probably had some up filming his event. Fly one through and even if it doesn't take pictures it may distract the shooter and he stops shooting people.

@bigheadfred
Not many people would have the ability to respond like this while under fire.   Keeping in mind it was dark and you couldn't see the broken windows.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1472 on: October 11, 2017, 06:48:54 pm »
Sorry but no!  That happened in South Dakota many years ago!

A tragic episode in American history, that few know much about.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1473 on: October 11, 2017, 06:58:11 pm »
That country singer probably had some up filming his event. Fly one through and even if it doesn't take pictures it may distract the shooter and he stops shooting people.

Not with the venue being separated from McCarran Airport by a fence. FAA wouldn't allow it.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 07:17:15 pm by txradioguy »
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1474 on: October 11, 2017, 07:22:46 pm »
verga wrote:
"@DB link Up thread it said that approximately 200 rounds were put through the door. 200 rounds are going to leave some pretty big holes you can put a camera through."

As I wrote yesterday, HOW MUCH OF THE DOOR WOULD BE LEFT, after 200 rounds of .223 were fired at it in psuedo-automatic mode?

What hotel would not respond in very short order that someone was (for all practical purposes) firing an automatic weapon on one of their floors?

Particularly if the police were ALREADY ON THE PREMISES (as they were).

The police department timeline is wrong.
If it is not, then something IS VERY WRONG in the way the hotel responded to this (supposedly) initial incident before the main firing at the crowd began.

Both the security guard AND a maintenance man were on the 32nd floor.

Where are these two individuals now?
Have they for some reason retained legal counsel?
Are they no longer willing to talk?
If so, WHY?

Why not produce both of them before a select audience of reporters, and give them a chance to tell their story directly to the public?

That should clear up a lot of the confusion right away.