Author Topic: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay  (Read 99522 times)

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1125 on: October 07, 2017, 06:40:55 pm »
Great now we have so called "conservatives" using graphics from Rolling Stone as a "credible" source.

I don't think that infographic proves the point he's trying to make.  It shows Maryland, Chitcago and LA as the safest places in the land.  Don't even get me started at how the statistics that is supposed to represent conflate suicides, accidents and homicides.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 06:42:10 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1126 on: October 07, 2017, 06:45:33 pm »
I don't think that infographic proves the point he's trying to make.  It shows Maryland, Chitcago and LA as the safest places in the land.  Don't even get me started at how the statistics that is supposed to represent conflate suicides, accidents and homicides.

If you take DC...Chicago...NOLA and Detroit out of the mix...the U.S. goes from 3rd in the world in murders to 4th from the bottom.

Not sure where Rolling Stong got their data from...but it's severely flawed.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1127 on: October 07, 2017, 09:28:20 pm »
I know of 30 households or so including my own, where people own 3-5 AK-47s, not one of them say, an individual should be free to buy as many as they want for their "collection".

Offline thackney

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1128 on: October 07, 2017, 09:33:47 pm »
I know of 30 households or so including my own, where people own 3-5 AK-47s, not one of them say, an individual should be free to buy as many as they want for their "collection".

Great.  When those people form a new country, they can write their Constitution that way, telling their citizens how much they are allowed to own.  Will they require limits on horsepower and speed for privately owned vehicles as well?

Who needs a private airplane?  They might fly it into a building or a crowd.

Again, do you believe your proposed new laws would prevent Paddock from killing a bunch of people?
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1129 on: October 07, 2017, 09:33:55 pm »
I know of 30 households or so including my own, where people own 3-5 AK-47s, not one of them say, an individual should be free to buy as many as they want for their "collection".

Which is why legislation shouldn't be based upon anecdotes and caprice.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1130 on: October 07, 2017, 10:56:02 pm »
I know of 30 households or so including my own, where people own 3-5 AK-47s, not one of them say, an individual should be free to buy as many as they want for their "collection".

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1131 on: October 07, 2017, 11:04:06 pm »
I know of 30 households or so including my own, where people own 3-5 AK-47s, not one of them say, an individual should be free to buy as many as they want for their "collection".

So how many is too many?  5? 6? 1?

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1132 on: October 07, 2017, 11:10:52 pm »
So how many is too many?  5? 6? 1?

Now that we know what he is, I guess we're down to haggling on the price, eh?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1133 on: October 07, 2017, 11:21:00 pm »
Tell me the law you believe would have prevented Paddock from killing a lot of people.  Unless you can explain that, there isn't a reason for another gun law.

The question isn't what kind of law could have stopped Paddock.  I doubt any law could have stopped Paddock; his MO was unique and everyone knows that every dog has one free bite.   The law isn't looking for folks without criminal records,  who do not bear elements of suspicion.   The police only find who they're looking for.

No,  the question is what sorts of laws and protections can stop the copycats.   We now have the ghastly model of a methodical killer sniping at strangers from the high floors of a building.   That's an open invitation to copycats.   We will be seeing hotels requiring folks to go through metal detectors,  hotels requiring guests to keep guns in gun safes and not in guest rooms,  and hotels and other public spaces banning the carrying of firearms. 

As for the implement of destruction, why shouldn't it be subject to regulation?   I don't advocate restrictions on the frequency of gun purchases or the size of a gun collection,  but I sure as hell advocate registration and insurance.  The same basic regime we require of those we permit to drive cars on public streets.    Guns, like cars, are useful but dangerous implements and should be registered with the authorities and made subject to a requirement that their owners insure them with respect to the potential mayhem they can cause.   
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 11:27:14 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1134 on: October 07, 2017, 11:29:45 pm »
I know of 30 households or so including my own, where people own 3-5 AK-47s, not one of them say, an individual should be free to buy as many as they want for their "collection".
I know a couple thousand people who only have a couple of cars. No one says you shouldn't be able to own a warehouse full.

What are you pushing for here, a limit on the number of firearms a person can own?
How fast they can buy them?
Who is the arbiter of that?
A limit on the caliber?
Magazine capacity?

You see, from the accounts of some of your friends' activities, they happily do things I would not participate in at gunpoint.

This has nothing to do with what your friends want to do.

It has to do with my Rights, which at last reading "...Shall not be Infringed.".
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1135 on: October 07, 2017, 11:31:30 pm »
The question isn't what kind of law could have stopped Paddock. 

Short of total confiscation of weapons legally owned by private citizens by the Federal government...nothing
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1136 on: October 07, 2017, 11:37:19 pm »
Guns, .....  should be registered with the authorities and made subject to a requirement that their owners insure them with respect to the potential mayhem they can cause.

What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1137 on: October 07, 2017, 11:38:29 pm »
If God forbid it,  someone managed to beat some people to death with a baseball bat are we going to even consider limits on how many baseball bats a person can own?
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1138 on: October 07, 2017, 11:38:40 pm »
The question isn't what kind of law could have stopped Paddock.  I doubt any law could have stopped Paddock; his MO was unique and everyone knows that every dog has one free bite.   The law isn't looking for folks without criminal records,  who do not bear elements of suspicion.   The police only find who they're looking for.

No,  the question is what sorts of laws and protections can stop the copycats.   We now have the ghastly model of a methodical killer sniping at strangers from the high floors of a building.   That's an open invitation to copycats.   We will be seeing hotels requiring folks to go through metal detectors,  hotels requiring guests to keep guns in gun safes and not in guest rooms,  and hotels and other public spaces banning the carrying of firearms. 

As for the implement of destruction, why shouldn't it be subject to regulation?   I don't advocate restrictions on the frequency of gun purchases or the size of a gun collection,  but I sure as hell advocate registration and insurance.  The same basic regime we require of those we permit to drive cars on public streets.    Guns, like cars, are useful but dangerous implements and should be registered with the authorities and made subject to a requirement that their owners insure them with respect to the potential mayhem they can cause.

So much wrong with that, I can't even start.  Well, I'll try:  We require things of people driving cars because driving isn't a "right," it's a privilege.  It's a pity too, I thought you were starting to understand the Second Amendment.

Oh well....
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1139 on: October 07, 2017, 11:38:59 pm »
The question isn't what kind of law could have stopped Paddock.  I doubt any law could have stopped Paddock; his MO was unique and everyone knows that every dog has one free bite.   The law isn't looking for folks without criminal records,  who do not bear elements of suspicion.   The police only find who they're looking for.

No,  the question is what sorts of laws and protections can stop the copycats.   We now have the ghastly model of a methodical killer sniping at strangers from the high floors of a building.   That's an open invitation to copycats.   We will be seeing hotels requiring folks to go through metal detectors,  hotels requiring guests to keep guns in gun safes and not in guest rooms,  and hotels and other public spaces banning the carrying of firearms. 

As for the implement of destruction, why shouldn't it be subject to regulation?   I don't advocate restrictions on the frequency of gun purchases or the size of a gun collection,  but I sure as hell advocate registration and insurance.  The same basic regime we require of those we permit to drive cars on public streets.    Guns, like cars, are useful but dangerous implements and should be registered with the authorities and made subject to a requirement that their owners insure them with respect to the potential mayhem they can cause.
So you want to turn a fundamental right into a heavily regulated privilege, and one for the wealthy at that.

Do you honestly think the fiscal encumbrances on a basic right would have stopped anyone with Paddock's financial means?

What you would do is open the way for the development of one of the most profound cottage industry booms in US history. In places like Pakistan, people with rudimentary tools can clone virtually any firearm made. What do you think Americans might be able to accomplish with CNC machines and 3-D printers? Cut off one head, and two will grow back and not all of the ones making those clones will care about how legal their use will be.

Or will you regulate scrap metal and sandpaper and files, too?
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1140 on: October 07, 2017, 11:39:18 pm »
Short of total confiscation of weapons legally owned by private citizens by the Federal government...nothing

Yup.  But I'd like to stop/deter the copycats.   Banning bump stocks sounds like a small step in that direction.  Let's not forget that bump stocks were declared legal by Obama's ATF.     
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 11:39:39 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1141 on: October 07, 2017, 11:41:52 pm »
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

@jpsb he's obviously never filled out the paperwork for a new gun.  The serial number, caliber make and model are all entered into the paperwork by the dealer...which is then entered into the computer for the Feds to say yay or nay before you're allowed to walk out of the store with your new gun
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1142 on: October 07, 2017, 11:43:23 pm »
If God forbid it,  someone managed to beat some people to death with a baseball bat are we going to even consider limits on how many baseball bats a person can own?

Good question, that.  A Brother-in-Law I never got to meet was beaten to death with a baseball bat by some illegal aliens not far from where I live.  We can't even to seem to get a grip on stopping illegals, so I expect the anti-baseball bat freaks along most any minute.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1143 on: October 07, 2017, 11:44:44 pm »
Yup.  But I'd like to stop/deter the copycats.   Banning bump stocks sounds like a small step in that direction.  Let's not forget that bump stocks were declared legal by Obama's ATF.   

Again there is no way to stop or deter copycats unless you ban all gun sales in the country and confiscate the ones people already own.

There is not one single proposal in the last decade at the state or federal level that would have stopped any of the mass shootings that have happened in recent memory.

So to satisfy your desire to play real life Minority Report...the only way to satisfy what you seek is total confiscation.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1144 on: October 07, 2017, 11:49:00 pm »
Good question, that.  A Brother-in-Law I never got to meet was beaten to death with a baseball bat by some illegal aliens not far from where I live.  We can't even to seem to get a grip on stopping illegals, so I expect the anti-baseball bat freaks along most any minute.

@Bigun @Cyber Liberty


Since Englands gun ban knife attacks have taken their place as the murder weapon of choice.  It's gotten to the point that England is now beginning to place age restrictions on who can and can't purchase knives.  You can't even buy one online and have it shipped to your house.

My point in all fo that is that once you start down the road of regulation it will never stop.  The Federal Gov't will just move to block the next thing they deem dangerous...and the next thing...and the next thing...
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1145 on: October 07, 2017, 11:49:44 pm »
@jpsb he's obviously never filled out the paperwork for a new gun.  The serial number, caliber make and model are all entered into the paperwork by the dealer...which is then entered into the computer for the Feds to say yay or nay before you're allowed to walk out of the store with your new gun
There is no law that would have stopped the Vegas shooter. The goal of gun laws is
not to prevent gun violence but rather to disarm the American people so they can not
resist a tyrannical  government. It's a bait and switch like just about everything gov
does.

Much more important is finding out why the shooter did what he did. What was his
motivation and who motivated him. Then we might be able to stop the next shooter
before he/she shoots.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2017, 11:52:37 pm by jpsb »

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1146 on: October 07, 2017, 11:51:13 pm »
There is no law that would have stopped the Vegas shooter. The goal of gun laws is
not to prevent gun violence but rather to disarm the American people so they can not
resist a tyrannical  government. It's a bait and switch like just about everything gov
does.

Much more important is finding out why the shooter did what did did. What was his
motivation and who motivated him. Then we might be able to stop the next shooter
before he/she shoots.

 :amen:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1147 on: October 07, 2017, 11:51:33 pm »
The question isn't what kind of law could have stopped Paddock.  I doubt any law could have stopped Paddock; his MO was unique and everyone knows that every dog has one free bite.   The law isn't looking for folks without criminal records,  who do not bear elements of suspicion.   The police only find who they're looking for.

No,  the question is what sorts of laws and protections can stop the copycats.   We now have the ghastly model of a methodical killer sniping at strangers from the high floors of a building.   That's an open invitation to copycats.   We will be seeing hotels requiring folks to go through metal detectors,  hotels requiring guests to keep guns in gun safes and not in guest rooms,  and hotels and other public spaces banning the carrying of firearms. 

As for the implement of destruction, why shouldn't it be subject to regulation?   I don't advocate restrictions on the frequency of gun purchases or the size of a gun collection,  but I sure as hell advocate registration and insurance.  The same basic regime we require of those we permit to drive cars on public streets.    Guns, like cars, are useful but dangerous implements and should be registered with the authorities and made subject to a requirement that their owners insure them with respect to the potential mayhem they can cause.

@Jazzhead

I advocate registration and insurance for anyone who advocates for gun control.  History has proven it's dangerous and has contributed to millions of deaths.
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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1148 on: October 07, 2017, 11:52:11 pm »

  The law isn't looking for folks without criminal records,  who do not bear elements of suspicion.   The police only find who they're looking for.

No,  the question is what sorts of laws and protections can stop the copycats.   We now have the ghastly model of a methodical killer sniping at strangers from the high floors of a building.   That's an open invitation to copycats.   We will be seeing hotels requiring folks to go through metal detectors,  hotels and other public spaces banning the carrying of firearms. 

As for the implement of destruction, why shouldn't it be subject to regulation?   I don't advocate restrictions on the frequency of gun purchases or the size of a gun collection,  but I sure as hell advocate registration and insurance.  The same basic regime we require of those we permit to drive cars on public streets.    Guns, like cars, are useful but dangerous implements and should be registered with the authorities and made subject to a requirement that their owners insure them with respect to the potential mayhem they can cause.

@Jazzhead  you have hit on a point that is of some interest to me. The copycats. You are all smart enough, and well informed to know this is a precedent. The great thing about exceptionalism. Someone out there is going to try and out do you.

The only surprise to me is that something like this hasn't happened earlier. Sure, you have the walk in the door blasting away freaks. This seems a bit different.

As far as gun ownership goes, the number of guns you have is of no consequece. Your ownership of them does. Your Ownership.

I have an intense interest in what they would call a reasonable act. What Paddock did is beyond "reason"? I don't think so.

As for implements of destruction it is as both as simple and complex as Cain and Abel. People will do whatever comes to hand if there is "reason".


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Re: Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay
« Reply #1149 on: October 07, 2017, 11:53:39 pm »
So you want to turn a fundamental right into a heavily regulated privilege, and one for the wealthy at that.

Do you honestly think the fiscal encumbrances on a basic right would have stopped anyone with Paddock's financial means?


Bingo.  Some people think if we tax the living shit out of people to exercise their God-given rights, it will stop them from doing so.

This "copycat prevention" is the biggest piece of bovine excrement I've seen come down the pike since Hillary Clinton declared the carnage would have been worse of the killer had a suppressor.  Excuse me,  "Silencer."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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