Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay

[TomSea]

I don't put great merit in what might happen on the Michael Savage show; but a survivor was on the Savage show, thought he heard multiple-shooters:

https://michaelsavage.com/2017/10/04/audio-survivor-tells-savage-she-heard-multiple-shooters/

I mean, the glaring fact here, is all of those weapons, for one man? Maybe, he certainly horded a lot.

[edpc]

Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said: “At face value he had to have some help at some point and we want to ensure that that’s the answer."

“Maybe he was a superhuman who figured this out all on his own but it would be hard for me to believe that.”

@Sanguine

Right - so the quotes above confirm what I said before.  He is not certain if the shooter had any help and personally believes he must have. His feelings aren't relevant to the investigation – only the evidence is.

[jpsb]

@Suppressed

That at the moment is speculation and the source of the speculation is highly suspect. The Daily Beast is an arm of the lying Washington Post. Establishment leftists will do just about anything to prevent this attack as being seen as a attack by the left on the right. 

I might be wrong, we'll see.

@Suppressed @CatherineofAragon


"Paddock rented a room overlooking the Life is Beautiful festival in downtown Las Vegas a week earlier,
Lombardo said."

He did in fact rent a room overlooking the Life is Beautiful festival so he had the opportunity
to shoot it up had he wanted to. He didn't, he shot up the country music people instead. I'd say that adds
more evidence to my contention that the shooting was politically motivated. He used the life festival as a practice
run.

Info is at the end of the article

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/authorities-still-not-clear-on-who-stephen-paddock-was/

[TomSea]

Sheriff Joseph Lombardo said: “At face value he had to have some help at some point and we want to ensure that that’s the answer."

“Maybe he was a superhuman who figured this out all on his own but it would be hard for me to believe that.”

@Sanguine

Right - so the quotes above confirm what I said before.  He is not certain if the shooter had any help and personally believes he must have. His feelings aren't relevant to the investigation – only the evidence is.

@edpc
And when Law Enforcement is concerned about terrorism, they say, if you see something, report it.

So, I think this goes beyond the idea that Lombardo is just expressing his personal feelings in the matter.

And if one keeps up with the story, the double receipts at the hotel for room service, sure, one could argue he ordered both of those for himself but now, whom is expressing their feelings? In general, double receipts at least represents the possibility of more than one person.

And he built up an arsenal of weapons in his hotel room, sure, it could be for one person but why deny, the possibility exists of more than one person?

This is a horrendous crime. Nothing wrong with asking the public for help, if they saw anything.

[edpc]

@Suppressed @CatherineofAragon


"Paddock rented a room overlooking the Life is Beautiful festival in downtown Las Vegas a week earlier,
Lombardo said."

He did in fact rent a room overlooking the Life is Beautiful festival so he had the opportunity
to shoot it up had he wanted to. He didn't, he shot up the country music people instead. I'd say that adds
more evidence to my contention that the shooting was politically motivated. He used the life festival as a practice
run.

Info is at the end of the article

https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/authorities-still-not-clear-on-who-stephen-paddock-was/

Some have wondered if that was a dry run to plan the next attack. It would probably be easy to determine his intentions at the first event. Video of hotel activity at the time should still exist and you would see if he was bringing a large number of items to the room, as he did at Mandalay Bay.

[TomSea]

Good points, he only had 30 weapons stockpiled in his room, he'd need a hundred in there to responsibly entertain the idea someone else could have been involved. 

[TomSea]

Las Vegas shooter had 50 pounds of Tannerite in car: Why that's concerning

...

During the most-recent update, Sheriff Lombardo said police found 10 one pound containers of tannerite, two 20 pound containers of tannerite, and 1,600 rounds of ammunition along with an unknown quantity of ammonium nitrate inside Paddock's vehicle.

If any of this sounds familiar, that's because both chemical substances are widely used.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), millions of tons of ammonium nitrate is used in the United States each year. While stable at an "ambient temperature and pressure," according to the EPA, it can be used as an accelerant for combustion.

Continued: http://newschannel9.com/news/nation-world/las-vegas-shooter-had-50-pounds-of-tannerite-in-car-why-thats-concerning

[jpsb]

Good points, he only had 30 weapons stockpiled in his room, he'd need a hundred in there to responsibly entertain the idea someone else could have been involved. 

Normal human being, not Hollywood stars, only fire one weapon at a time. Particularly semi auto rifles. 30 weapons could arm 30 normal human beings.

Also the 30 is after the event who knows how many were there before the event. Let's not rule out the idea that there was another shooter until we are certain there was not another shooter.

[edpc]

@edpc
And when Law Enforcement is concerned about terrorism, they say, if you see something, report it.

So, I think this goes beyond the idea that Lombardo is just expressing his personal feelings in the matter.

And if one keeps up with the story, the double receipts at the hotel for room service, sure, one could argue he ordered both of those for himself but now, whom is expressing their feelings? In general, double receipts at least represents the possibility of more than one person.

And he built up an arsenal of weapons in his hotel room, sure, it could be for one person but why deny, the possibility exists of more than one person?

This is a horrendous crime. Nothing wrong with asking the public for help, if they saw anything.

Yeah, sorry, but we can speculate all we want here. However, the leading investigator has a certain responsibility on what type of information is released and when.  His musings are a fail.

[TomSea]

Yeah, sorry, but we can speculate all we want here. However, the leading investigator has a certain responsibility on what type of information is released and when.  His musings are a fail.

I don't buy your analysis that this Sheriff is irresponsibly stating his case. They are telling the public what they want, a lot of other info, they are probably guarding for themselves.

The chances of another party being involved is probably unlikely or remote per the info I've seen but is still possible.

Better to get this out now, before the case gets cold, say, saying this 10 days from now.

[driftdiver]

@TomSea
That statement from them doesn't make sense.

Tannerite is completely legal.   It is a powder that is typically used for exploding targets.   Its not a high explosive and is much less dangerous than an equivalent amount of gunpowder. 

10lbs of it would make a lot of noise and destroy a car.   Probably hurt anyone close by but it wouldn't significantly damage a building.   I was at a range in Vegas where we shot a old cab that had 8lbs of it.   It made a big boom and threw the hood about 200 ft up in the air.   The cars roof was bulged out but the car was otherwise intact.

The fertilizer is much more concerning.  This can be significant more dangerous if its in sufficient quantity.

[TomSea]

@TomSea
That statement from them doesn't make sense.

Tannerite is completely legal.   It is a powder that is typically used for exploding targets.   Its not a high explosive and is much less dangerous than an equivalent amount of gunpowder. 

10lbs of it would make a lot of noise and destroy a car.   Probably hurt anyone close by but it wouldn't significantly damage a building.   I was at a range in Vegas where we shot a old cab that had 8lbs of it.   It made a big boom and threw the hood about 200 ft up in the air.   The cars roof was bulged out but the car was otherwise intact.

The fertilizer is much more concerning.  This can be significant more dangerous if its in sufficient quantity.

The article does not say Tannerite is illegal:

Tannerite is often used to form homemade exploding targets and according to the EPA, it is currently approved for sale in the United States. However, one case study found it can also cause severe injury to people.

According to the 2016 journal article, tannerite can "be used to form devices capable of inflicting major blast injury." In the patient studied, the person suffered a rupture of the tympanic membrane (inner ear), injury to the eye wall, and severe burns.

[edpc]

I don't buy your analysis that this Sheriff is irresponsibly stating his case. They are telling the public what they want, a lot of other info, they are probably guarding for themselves.

The chances of another party being involved is probably unlikely or remote per the info I've seen but is still possible.

Better to get this out now, before the case gets cold, say, saying this 10 days from now.

Right, because backtracking on something you should not have said in the first place really helps bolster your credibility in an important investigation.

[TomSea]

Normal human being, not Hollywood stars, only fire one weapon at a time. Particularly semi auto rifles. 30 weapons could arm 30 normal human beings.

Also the 30 is after the event who knows how many were there before the event. Let's not rule out the idea that there was another shooter until we are certain there was not another shooter.

Totally agree.

[TomSea]

There should be plenty of cameras, close circuit TV; but on the other hand, I worked at the Holiday Inn Denver North on the mousetrap; hulking large hotel; but being of 1960s or '70s vintage, I'm not sure if they'd have all of these cameras in the present day.

[jpsb]

@TomSea
That statement from them doesn't make sense.

Tannerite is completely legal.   It is a powder that is typically used for exploding targets.   Its not a high explosive and is much less dangerous than an equivalent amount of gunpowder. 

10lbs of it would make a lot of noise and destroy a car.   Probably hurt anyone close by but it wouldn't significantly damage a building.   I was at a range in Vegas where we shot a old cab that had 8lbs of it.   It made a big boom and threw the hood about 200 ft up in the air.   The cars roof was bulged out but the car was otherwise intact.

The fertilizer is much more concerning.  This can be significant more dangerous if its in sufficient quantity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DK_pw2tq2Q&feature=youtu.be

[Smokin Joe]

@TomSea
That statement from them doesn't make sense.

Tannerite is completely legal.   It is a powder that is typically used for exploding targets.   Its not a high explosive and is much less dangerous than an equivalent amount of gunpowder. 

10lbs of it would make a lot of noise and destroy a car.   Probably hurt anyone close by but it wouldn't significantly damage a building.   I was at a range in Vegas where we shot a old cab that had 8lbs of it.   It made a big boom and threw the hood about 200 ft up in the air.   The cars roof was bulged out but the car was otherwise intact.

The fertilizer is much more concerning.  This can be significant more dangerous if its in sufficient quantity.

50 lbs of tannerite vs chevy lumina (at 1 minute in):


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr9FQeZrVQU
So, yes, 50 lbs is a significant amount. What's more, Tannerite is fast enough it could be used to detonate ANFO. Maybe he didn't have  time to set that up.

[TomSea]

Excerpts:

Vegas Killer Stephen Paddock Bought 33 Guns in One Year - $600 Rifle He Purchased on Way to Vegas Is Missing
by Jim Hoft
October 5, 2017

Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms told CBS News on Wednesday that Las Vegas killer Stephen Paddock purchased 33 guns in the last year since October 2016.
That averages out to around three guns per month.

...

Mass killer Stephen Paddock bought a high-powered hunting rifle just hours before he arrived in Las Vegas on his mission of death, DailyMail.com can reveal.

But bizarrely the rifle wasn’t one of the 23 weapon haul found by police in his sniper’s nest hotel suite.

More: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/vegas-killer-stephen-paddock-bought-33-guns-one-year-600-rifle-purchased-way-vegas-missing/

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/862496/Las-Vegas-shooter-motive-killer-mass-murderer-Stephen-Paddock-Marilou-Danley-FBI-gun

If they have record of him buying that one rifle just hours before checking into the hotel; and they can't find it? Hey, you just have to wonder about it.

No wild speculation but...


I'm sure Sheriff Lombardo is working with the FBI, yes, that FBI that has dropped the ball on these domestic matters; but nonetheless, I'm sure there are some responsible persons in law enforcement.

Just the facts.

Addendum:  Per the missing rifle: I'm sure they have searched his home... so, it doesn't say anything about that. It seems there is a possibility he could have dropped it off there, tool shed, storage facility, etc. if he bought it in his hometown of Mesquite Nevada.

Still, pretty suspicious, as if he didn't have enough weapons.

[txradioguy]

If there were really multiple shooters...the number of dead would have doubled from what it was because you would have has continuous fire from two different positions raining down on that crowd.  IMHO the shooting could have been more accurate too and not "spray and pray" like what actually happened.

Sorry folks...not buying into the tinfoil on this one.

[Smokin Joe]

If there were really multiple shooters...the number of dead would have doubled from what it was because you would have has continuous fire from two different positions raining down on that crowd.

Sorry folks...not buying into the tinfoil on this one.

Maybe accomplices were a no-show, instead and he decided to go it solo. That still seems like a lot of firearms for just one guy to have up there. Also, I saw a graphic which showed the rooms with broken windows were adjacent, but not connected. If correct, he would have had to go into the hall to go from one room to the other. FOr one guy, that doesn't make much sense, unless he broke the window in the other room to throw the police off, and then went into the one he was going to be shooting from. Otherwise, he'd be vulnerable to attack from the hallway when he changed positions.

[thackney]

Maybe accomplices were a no-show, instead and he decided to go it solo. That still seems like a lot of firearms for just one guy to have up there. Also, I saw a graphic which showed the rooms with broken windows were adjacent, but not connected. If correct, he would have had to go into the hall to go from one room to the other. FOr one guy, that doesn't make much sense, unless he broke the window in the other room to throw the police off, and then went into the one he was going to be shooting from. Otherwise, he'd be vulnerable to attack from the hallway when he changed positions.

Connecting door between suite and adjacent room.

[txradioguy]

Maybe accomplices were a no-show, instead and he decided to go it solo. That still seems like a lot of firearms for just one guy to have up there. Also, I saw a graphic which showed the rooms with broken windows were adjacent, but not connected. If correct, he would have had to go into the hall to go from one room to the other. FOr one guy, that doesn't make much sense, unless he broke the window in the other room to throw the police off, and then went into the one he was going to be shooting from. Otherwise, he'd be vulnerable to attack from the hallway when he changed positions.

The graphic contradicts what I've seem from video shot in the room by a previous guest who stayed in the room last year that shows one sweeping room with windows in the same rom at both angles.

He was ready for a stand off with the weapons.  Hence the reason he had so many.  The cameras he had set up were so the cops couldn't sneak up on him IMO.  That's how he knew to shoot through the door at the security guard checking out the noise and the fire alarm.  Had he not offed himself and continued shooting a lot of those rifles he had would have been aimed at whomever was trying to breach the door and gain access to the room.  With that many weapons he could have kept up a pretty continuous stream of fire at a fixed point and killed a lot of cops in the process.

[Suppressed]

Better to get this out now, before the case gets cold, say, saying this 10 days from now.

If you really want to catch a second person, you often don't get it out there, so they lower their guard.  Don't always trust police public statements for what they are truly thinking.

[jpsb]

Sorry folks...not buying into the tinfoil on this one.

@txradioguy

It is very foolish to rule anything out at the start of an investigation. Do you know for a fact there was no another shooter? A very common infantry tactic is to create a field of fire. You don't just fire from one location if you have the means to fire from multiple locations. This is basic stuff that whoever planned this attack was smart enough to know.

Ruling out two or more shooters at the start of an investigation is stupid. And so is your tinfoil comment.

[TomSea]

If you really want to catch a second person, you often don't get it out there, so they lower their guard.  Don't always trust police public statements for what they are truly thinking.

And in that same vein, I thought they admitted that there is information they are not releasing as of now. So, yes, this is orchestrated in my opinion, on what they are telling the general public.  Not just haphazard remarks at a press conference.