Las Vegas: Active shooter reported near Mandalay Bay

[Smokin Joe]

Sad if that idiot Texan, Alex Jones is exploiting this situation.

Tom, anyone with a microphone, website, congressional office, print media, or a YouTube channel is exploiting this incident. Some were before wounded started rolling into ERs.

[Smokin Joe]

Newsmax is saying he used a bump stock.  That would explain the explain the full auto sound with a rather slow fire rate.  Those devices wreck your accuracy though.
https://www.newsmax.com/Headline/US-Las-Vegas-Shooting/2017/10/03/id/817236/

He was going through a magazine every ten seconds, by the you tube audio. Not a 30 round mag, but a 50 or larger. Someone who could split the audio off and count the spikes could maybe get a more precise count and figure actual RPM and magazine size. I heard 10 seconds of sustained fire, a 10+ second delay, then another 10 of sustained fire, and repeat. The gaps were likely reloading. bump stock or auto sear or the correct internals for full auto, the effect is much the same: a lot of rounds downrange in short order--faster and more consistent rate of fire than most could ever fire a semi-auto ordinarily.

[edpc]

He was going through a magazine every ten seconds, by the you tube audio. Not a 30 round mag, but a 50 or larger. Someone who could split the audio off and count the spikes could maybe get a more precise count and figure actual RPM and magazine size. I heard 10 seconds of sustained fire, a 10+ second delay, then another 10 of sustained fire, and repeat. The gaps were likely reloading. bump stock or auto sear or the correct internals for full auto, the effect is much the same: a lot of rounds downrange in short order--faster and more consistent rate of fire than most could ever fire a semi-auto ordinarily.

Here is a video of someone using a similar slide fire device, combined with a bipod and large capacity drum magazine. You can see that the recoil is manageable enough where the dispersion will be wide at distance, but not unpredictably so.  The shooter probably had something similar in setup.

The person in the video initially began with bursts, but then goes wide open towards the end of the video. It does not take long to empty the drum magazine.



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ur5c9JDVtY

[Just_Victor]

He was going through a magazine every ten seconds, by the you tube audio. Not a 30 round mag, but a 50 or larger. Someone who could split the audio off and count the spikes could maybe get a more precise count and figure actual RPM and magazine size. I heard 10 seconds of sustained fire, a 10+ second delay, then another 10 of sustained fire, and repeat. The gaps were likely reloading. bump stock or auto sear or the correct internals for full auto, the effect is much the same: a lot of rounds downrange in short order--faster and more consistent rate of fire than most could ever fire a semi-auto ordinarily.

Full auto fire rate for the M4 (and most full auto rotating bolt rifles) is ~700-900 RPM.  That's 15 rounds per second, and will blow through a 50 round mag in 5 seconds or less.  Assuming the rate of fire estimates don't include reload times (I don't know if they do or not).

A bump stock will give you ~300-400 RPM, or 5 or so rounds per second.  Early on in this thread someone estimated ~4 rounds per second.  Having listened to the audio, I agree.  That would empty a 50 round mag in 12 seconds.  Consistent with your 10 seconds of sustained fire followed by 10 seconds to reload.

The very regular fire frequency definitely indicates a device, rather than manually squeezing off rounds, just like you said.  And regardless, it still provides a substantial amount of lead downrange.

[mountaineer]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/quebec-city-mosque-shooter-formally-charged-182134773.html

"Not Muslim" does not equate to "Christian."

But that is a discussion that probably doesn't belong on this thread.

[Sanguine]

"Not Muslim" does not equate to "Christian."

But that is a discussion that probably doesn't belong on this thread.

Yes, that was my point too.

[Rivergirl]

Tom, the blame belongs to the shooter and no one else.   This is not a Charlie Hebdo situation, nor the truck crashing into the 4th of July crowd in Nice.   This is not the Bataclan massare either.  Those were terror attacks.  At this point in time we do not know the notive for the nightmare.
Too many want to change the subject, and I am not one of them.   

[Silver Pines]

I don't think the shooter had a clear view of the stage front where the performers normally are. the shooter was behind, above and to the side of the stage. I also very much doubt that the shooter had much accuracy from that distance with a machine gun. He was simply spraying bullets towards the crowd.

I also think the singer had little idea what was happening like everyone else. Something was wrong and it was time to go. There was nothing he could say to change the situation short of possibly making it worse by telling everyone to run.

@DB

I'm not aware of his position related to the crowd, so I defer to you.

Yes, the performer would likely be blamed if he had tried to direct the crowd.

[austingirl]

The news has dried up. I can't find anything on what was found in his Reno home. The gun count kept changing last night- can't authorities count? Have the conflicting stories about him committing suicide versus shooting at SWAT when they breached his room been resolved?

This is an ISIS-like attack without a known ISIS connection-at this time. I find it suspicious the girlfriend was out of the country. Saw internet speculation that Paddock was a bag man/safe house operator for terrorists. The number of properties he owned (27) where he was seldom in residence and his money without provenance, are suspicious.

I also doubt if we will get the truth from our rulers.

[Applewood]

"This is an ISIS-like attack without a known ISIS connection-at this time. I find it suspicious the girlfriend was out of the country. Saw internet speculation that Paddock was a bag man/safe house operator for terrorists. The number of properties he owned (27) where he was seldom in residence and his money without provenance, are suspicious."

Not suspicious at all that the lady was out of the country.  I've heard her described as Asian.   Perhaps she has family/friends in the Philipines.  And by the way, while Islam has become prominent in the Philipines, the country has traditionally been predominantly Catholic. 

As to his properties, there are quite a few people who own multiple homes, but don't live in them.  Many people make money by renting out their homes to vacationers.  There are quite a few homes around Las Vegas or in beach or ski destinations that are rented out hy the week or more.  Friends and I once rented a house in suburban Vegas.  The couple which owned the property had lived in it at one time, but the husband's job transferred him out of state.  The RE market at the time wasn't good and they couldn't sell, so they decided to rent. 
Anyway, having multiple residences is not suspicious.

Plus the guy was in real estate and apparently, he made quite a good living from that plus other investments.  I'm terrible when it comes to investing, but I know some people who have made nice money from the markets. Again, Paddock's income is not suspicious. 

But from what I understand, this man's life is being torn apart by investigators; so hopefully, if there is anything that is not on the "up and up," it will come to light.  As of right now, all the points you raise can be adequately explained, and it serves no purpose to let conspiracy theorists and other Internet cranks plant needless suspicions in your brain.

@austingirl

[LadyLiberty]

This podcast (Former Navy Corpsman & Cop Became Rescue Worker in Las Vegas) has a first hand account of the massacre.  https://www.iheart.com/podcast/139-The-Michael-Berry-Show-27764850/  A hero for sure.  I wonder if the call accidentally dropped as he claimed or if they cut it off because the guy was getting so emotional.
 

[austingirl]

"This is an ISIS-like attack without a known ISIS connection-at this time. I find it suspicious the girlfriend was out of the country. Saw internet speculation that Paddock was a bag man/safe house operator for terrorists. The number of properties he owned (27) where he was seldom in residence and his money without provenance, are suspicious."

Not suspicious at all that the lady was out of the country.  I've heard her described as Asian.   Perhaps she has family/friends in the Philipines.  And by the way, while Islam has become prominent in the Philipines, the country has traditionally been predominantly Catholic. 

As to his properties, there are quite a few people who own multiple homes, but don't live in them.  Many people make money by renting out their homes to vacationers.  There are quite a few homes around Las Vegas or in beach or ski destinations that are rented out hy the week or more.  Friends and I once rented a house in suburban Vegas.  The couple which owned the property had lived in it at one time, but the husband's job transferred him out of state.  The RE market at the time wasn't good and they couldn't sell, so they decided to rent. 
Anyway, having multiple residences is not suspicious.

Plus the guy was in real estate and apparently, he made quite a good living from that plus other investments.  I'm terrible when it comes to investing, but I know some people who have made nice money from the markets. Again, Paddock's income is not suspicious. 

But from what I understand, this man's life is being torn apart by investigators; so hopefully, if there is anything that is not on the "up and up," it will come to light.  As of right now, all the points you raise can be adequately explained, and it serves no purpose to let conspiracy theorists and other Internet cranks plant needless suspicions in your brain.

@austingirl

There are a great many questions and since there are so many conflicting stories, speculation is rampant. No one is planting anything in my brain. I think for myself.

[edpc]

Link with pictures of a couple weapons inside the room.  There's an additional link below the photos that takes you to a pic of the dead perp.  Warning - if you click that additional link, the pic is graphic.  It would appear as though he put the revolver on the floor in his mouth.  Can't tell the make, but the cylinder is large and may be a hammerless Taurus Judge.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/warning-nsfw-graphic-photo-pictures-from-paddocks-room-nsfw-nsfw/72602019/

[austingirl]

Link with pictures of a couple weapons inside the room.  There's an additional link below the photos that takes you to a pic of the dead perp.  Warning - if you click that additional link, the pic is graphic.  It would appear as though he put the revolver on the floor in his mouth.  Can't tell the make, but the cylinder is large and may be a hammerless Taurus Judge.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/warning-nsfw-graphic-photo-pictures-from-paddocks-room-nsfw-nsfw/72602019/

Went to the link. Could be he put the revolver in his mouth, but could he have been shot in the mouth by SWAT? Is there anyway to tell from the photo?

[Suppressed]

Just a heads-up... some of the lines the Left is starting to push with this:

"Conservatives say this murderer had a RIGHT to own a gun,
but the people he hit don't have a RIGHT to healthcare."

and

"Some of the heroes who protected others and took bullets themselves might have to go bankrupt because of our healthcare system."

Be prepared to counter these.

[austingirl]

 

Just a heads-up... some of the lines the Left is starting to push with this:

"Conservatives say this murderer had a RIGHT to own a gun,
but the people he hit don't have a RIGHT to healthcare."

and

"Some of the heroes who protected others and took bullets themselves might have to go bankrupt because of our healthcare system."

Be prepared to counter these.

 

[edpc]

Went to the link. Could be he put the revolver in his mouth, but could he have been shot in the mouth by SWAT? Is there anyway to tell from the photo?

He may have taken one in the chest from SWAT.   I can't tell if the stain on the shirt is from a GSW or not.  Since the revolver is bloody, I'm guessing he ate it.

[austingirl]

He may have taken one in the chest from SWAT.   I can't tell if the stain on the shirt is from a GSW or not.  Since the revolver is bloody, I'm guessing he ate it.

Thanks, and thanks for the link.

[driftdiver]

Went to the link. Could be he put the revolver in his mouth, but could he have been shot in the mouth by SWAT? Is there anyway to tell from the photo?

Kinda curious as to how those got released so fast.

[edpc]

Kinda curious as to how those got released so fast.

Because sites and media outlets will pay a lot for them.

[ABX]

Link with pictures of a couple weapons inside the room.  There's an additional link below the photos that takes you to a pic of the dead perp.  Warning - if you click that additional link, the pic is graphic.  It would appear as though he put the revolver on the floor in his mouth.  Can't tell the make, but the cylinder is large and may be a hammerless Taurus Judge.

http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/politics/warning-nsfw-graphic-photo-pictures-from-paddocks-room-nsfw-nsfw/72602019/

Pretty brutal. It could possibly explain the conflicting stories, they weren't conflicting. When the police came in and shot him, he killed himself before they finished the job (could explain the blood on the shirt although that could be his headshot splatter too).

One of the guns in that definitely has a bump fire stock so that answers another question. It also appears to have a 60 or 100 round magazine.

[driftdiver]

He may have taken one in the chest from SWAT.   I can't tell if the stain on the shirt is from a GSW or not.  Since the revolver is bloody, I'm guessing he ate it.

@edpc
It could also be sweat, a spilled drink, an injury from the breach charge or just about anything else.   

[ABX]

Just a heads-up... some of the lines the Left is starting to push with this:

"Conservatives say this murderer had a RIGHT to own a gun,
but the people he hit don't have a RIGHT to healthcare."

and

"Some of the heroes who protected others and took bullets themselves might have to go bankrupt because of our healthcare system."

Be prepared to counter these.

I've been seeing a LOT of people post the first one. I was working on writing up a response article that I'll post later this evening.

[ABX]

Kinda curious as to how those got released so fast.

At least the corpse photo, I doubt that was an official release. Probably some coronor or security guard took a snapshot with their phone and sent it to a friend and now it is everywhere. 

[driftdiver]

I've been seeing a LOT of people post the first one. I was working on writing up a response article that I'll post later this evening.

@AbaraXas
I look forward to seeing it.