Author Topic: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview  (Read 17511 times)

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #375 on: September 27, 2017, 05:05:15 pm »
I really enjoy and back about all that you write DD and respect your background. But in the case of marriage, would one say the Bible has polygamous marriages? Usually by Kings... but I'm not sure if the theology does say "marriage is only between one man and one woman", though that is my definition and largely the definition in the West since forever.... with a few exceptions.

@TomSea
No there are not "polygamous marriages" in the Bible, not in the sense you are trying to imply.  There are several instances in the Old Testament where one man has multiple wives.

None of which changes the guidance provided to us in the Bible.   One man and one woman within the bounds of marriage.   Its very very clear.   Stated in the Old Testament and repeated in the New Testament.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #376 on: September 27, 2017, 05:05:54 pm »
Leviticus 18


"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."  KJV Holy Bible
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline roamer_1

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #377 on: September 27, 2017, 05:07:35 pm »

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."  KJV Holy Bible

That's just about as illegal as it gets.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #378 on: September 27, 2017, 05:08:52 pm »
@Suppressed
Words have meaning, normal means "the usual, average, or typical state or condition."   So because gays only make up 1.5% of the population that makes them atypical or abnormal.     

And each of the other conditions listed are similarly rare.

Quote
Now peoples blood types and their hair color are determined by their genetics.    Being Gay is not, it is a learned behavior according to available science.

Correct.  The science is becoming pretty clear that it's largely caused in the womb, based on the mother's hormonal levels.

Quote
BUT...the homosexual lobby isn't content with just forcing gayness down everyones throat.  No they are attaching a whole host of other cultural issues with their lifestyle choice

We're not talking about the homosexual lobby.  We're talking about homosexual people.  Don't throw out a red herring.
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Offline jpsb

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #379 on: September 27, 2017, 05:10:01 pm »
I really enjoy and back about all that you write DD and respect your background. But in the case of marriage, would one say the Bible has polygamous marriages? Usually by Kings... but I'm not sure if the theology does say "marriage is only between one man and one woman", though that is my definition and largely the definition in the West since forever.... with a few exceptions.

That is a very good point. I am not a biblical expert but I do believe there was
a barren women that could not give her husband a son so he impregnated one
of his female servants. All this was OK with G*d.

However G*d did let it be known in no uncertain terms He does not like the idea
of a man lying down with another man. Ergo I usually limit my discussion on
homosexuals to the practice of Sodomy as Sodomy was understood in biblical days
(see Sodom and Gomorrah)

Besides G*ds condemnation of the practice, and the huge Yuck factor normal
humans get when thinking about it. There are also serious health concerns and
not just for the practitioners but for the community as a whole since some of
the sodomites swing both ways.

So put me down as being all in favor of making sodomy a crime. However I would
not vigorously enforce that law. But I would want the law on the books so everyone
would know that sodomy is a no no and might land you in jail.

Offline Bigun

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #380 on: September 27, 2017, 05:11:56 pm »
That's just about as illegal as it gets.

I don't see how it can be make much clearer!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

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- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline INVAR

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #381 on: September 27, 2017, 05:16:00 pm »
@TomSea
No there are not "polygamous marriages" in the Bible, not in the sense you are trying to imply.  There are several instances in the Old Testament where one man has multiple wives.

None of which changes the guidance provided to us in the Bible.   One man and one woman within the bounds of marriage.   Its very very clear.   Stated in the Old Testament and repeated in the New Testament.

Exactly.  How many wives did Yah present Adam in the Garden?

Scripture is replete with the testimonies of misery that men and families suffered because men decided they knew better for themselves than God.  Abraham, Sarai and Hagar is a good example.  We're still paying for that lack of faith to this very day.

That is a very good point. I am not a biblical expert but I do believe there was
a barren women that could not give her husband a son so he impregnated one
of his female servants. All this was OK with G*d.

You're thinking of the above example of Abraham, his wife Sarai and his handmaiden Hagar.  God was not 'okay with it' anymore than He was okay with divorce.  They demonstrated a lack of faith in His Promise - and He let them eat the fruit of their own way, to suffer the consequences that followed, which is a history of hatred, blood and death.  It is not what God intended, but as with Him - He let's us make our own stupid mistakes because like wayward teenagers, we think we know what is best for ourselves.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

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Offline Suppressed

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #382 on: September 27, 2017, 05:20:25 pm »
Heck, the Bible says that it's not even the preference for men and women to get together... 1 Corinthians 7:7a

And let's not forget Origen being a far better Christian than most, considering Matthew 5:29-30.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #383 on: September 27, 2017, 05:22:02 pm »
That is a very good point. I am not a biblical expert but I do believe there was
a barren women that could not give her husband a son so he impregnated one
of his female servants. All this was OK with G*d.


No, it was not OK with God. You are speaking of Abraham and Sarah, and his interlude with Hagar was not only against the faith he should have had in YHWH's promise, but that action created Ishmael, whose descendants have plagued Israel all the way along.

Marriage is allowed to be 'more than one wife', and there are instances in Torah where it is demanded - A brother has a duty to marry the widow of his brother, to perpetuate his name and fortune, and to care for his woman and children. A Kinsman Redeemer also has a responsibility to a widow.

However, while there are such circumstances, the gold standard is one man, one woman, for life - and that is with much emphasis. And the ability to marry more than one woman was often abused, and lamented over in the Bible.

More than one husband is a different story, and declared against. A woman is bound to a man until his death...

Offline roamer_1

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #384 on: September 27, 2017, 05:23:34 pm »
@INVAR

LOL! GMTA
 :beer:

Offline driftdiver

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #385 on: September 27, 2017, 05:24:26 pm »
And each of the other conditions listed are similarly rare.

Correct.  The science is becoming pretty clear that it's largely caused in the womb, based on the mother's hormonal levels.

We're not talking about the homosexual lobby.  We're talking about homosexual people.  Don't throw out a red herring.

@Suppressed
No,  while that may be a factor in a very small number of people it is mostly due to the nurture part.   Where the person has suffered trauma (e.g. rape) or is socially incapable of forming normal relationships with persons of the opposite sex.   Then there's the influence of drugs and alcohol and social pressure to be cool.  A friends daughter told them that if she didn't have a girlfriend and boyfriend at the University people would ostracize her.  Kids who haven't been taught otherwise get recruited by other gays, it feels good, so they figure they must be gay.

Like most things with people involved its complex and has many variables.   Whats very clearly known is the behavior has numerous very negative aspects and causes a significant amount of self-destructive behavior.   The high suicide rate among gay men for example.   The practice of anonymous sex, high rates of prosiscuity and even those who are trying to catch HIV.   

Homosexual behavior has been around for thousands of years and has always been destructive to the individual and to society.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Suppressed

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #386 on: September 27, 2017, 05:25:50 pm »
With that insult we're done, here.

Insult, @Smokin Joe ?!  You're the one who said "is a good start" about a large number who will die.  Sounds like worship of death, not life.

Quote
You are the one advocating the act which has caused that death and so much more and I am speaking against it.

I do no such thing.  I advocate the right of a person to make that choice. 

Admittedly, Matthew 10:14 says that "When someone does something we don't like, we are to take it to the Governor or the Senate, to pass laws against it" or something like that, I guess.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #387 on: September 27, 2017, 05:27:59 pm »
Heck, the Bible says that it's not even the preference for men and women to get together... 1 Corinthians 7:7a

And let's not forget Origen being a far better Christian than most, considering Matthew 5:29-30.

@Suppressed
1 Corinthians 7:7a does not mean that at all.  It means we should be content in ourselves and our worship of God.   But that if they must then they can marry.

I'd suggest a little study before you quote any more bible verses.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #388 on: September 27, 2017, 05:31:16 pm »
Oh, would you and I have some fun, sittin  on the porch...
Paul is so often misinterpreted.

That would be nice.  I'm only recently beginning to appreciate Paul.

And, I thought you didn't have a porch?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:31:41 pm by Sanguine »

Offline Suppressed

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #389 on: September 27, 2017, 05:31:43 pm »
No,  while that may be a factor in a very small number of people it is mostly due to the nurture part.
  I didn't say it was entirely, but I think it's more than "very small".  Twin studies and statistical analyses have revealed it to be much larger "nature" than you're implying.

Quote
Where the person has suffered trauma (e.g. rape) or is socially incapable of forming normal relationships with persons of the opposite sex.   Then there's the influence of drugs and alcohol and social pressure to be cool.  A friends daughter told them that if she didn't have a girlfriend and boyfriend at the University people would ostracize her.  Kids who haven't been taught otherwise get recruited by other gays, it feels good, so they figure they must be gay.

Okay, so let's look at those examples.  People also have other conditions that result from such stressors.  Let's even call homosexuality a mental illness for purposes of discussion.  Happy?

Now tell me what other mental disorder we make illegal?  Do we lock up people with anxiety if they are no threat to public safety?  Do we fine people for suffering from depression? 

Quote
Like most things with people involved its complex and has many variables.   Whats very clearly known is the behavior has numerous very negative aspects and causes a significant amount of self-destructive behavior.   The high suicide rate among gay men for example.   The practice of anonymous sex, high rates of prosiscuity and even those who are trying to catch HIV.

And explain how making it illegal will make it all safer, please.   

Quote
Homosexual behavior has been around for thousands of years and has always been destructive to the individual and to society.

Thank you for pointing out that making it illegal didn't stop negative effects of it.
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“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline jpsb

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #390 on: September 27, 2017, 05:31:49 pm »
No, it was not OK with God. You are speaking of Abraham and Sarah, and his interlude with Hagar was not only against the faith he should have had in YHWH's promise, but that action created Ishmael, whose descendants have plagued Israel all the way along.

Marriage is allowed to be 'more than one wife', and there are instances in Torah where it is demanded - A brother has a duty to marry the widow of his brother, to perpetuate his name and fortune, and to care for his woman and children. A Kinsman Redeemer also has a responsibility to a widow.

However, while there are such circumstances, the gold standard is one man, one woman, for life - and that is with much emphasis. And the ability to marry more than one woman was often abused, and lamented over in the Bible.

More than one husband is a different story, and declared against. A woman is bound to a man until his death...

Hmm I guess I am going to have to catch up on my bible studies.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #391 on: September 27, 2017, 05:33:20 pm »
Leviticus 18

Yes, by God's laws.  He did not say to stone Gentiles who did not obey His law.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #392 on: September 27, 2017, 05:33:35 pm »

"Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."  KJV Holy Bible

So two hot chicks making out is alright? Time for me to start heading to church....

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:34:00 pm by Frank Cannon »

Offline massadvj

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #393 on: September 27, 2017, 05:33:38 pm »
@massadvj
God says that sex is between married people only.  And that marriage is between one man and one woman.   

Are you really going to parse words with God?

God also gave man free will for the simple reason that man should be free to choose to sin or not.  Some behaviors are sins against nature, some behaviors are sins against society, and some behaviors are both.  Homosexuality is a sin against nature, but not society.  I don't think God would have any problem with making it His purview and not government's.

Jesus said "Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's."  As a follower of the New Testament, I have no qualms with putting homosexuality into the category of things that belong with God.

Other than the protection of man's inalienable, God-given rights, I don't believe government ought to be in the business of enforcing God's laws.  God is perfectly equipped to do that Himself.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:36:33 pm by massadvj »

Offline Neverdul

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #394 on: September 27, 2017, 05:33:39 pm »
Gods Word tells us that sex is reserved for those who are married to each other.  Marriage is limited to one man and one woman.    So adultery, premarital and homosexual sex are all contrary to Gods law.

Then by all means, let’s have the government arrest and imprison all the heterosexual people who are having pre-martital sex or having extra-marital affairs. They will be way too busy to bother the homos then.

And while we are at it, let’s enforce a lot of God’s other words and laws - too long ignored and ignored at the peril of our souls (presuming we are semi-nomadic, semi-illiterate, sematic goat headers living some 6 thousand years ago).  But seriously? How many of these other Biblical laws do you follow?

Don't let cattle graze with other kinds of Cattle (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't have a variety of crops on the same field. (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't wear clothes made of more than one fabric (Leviticus 19:19)
Don't cut your hair nor shave. (Leviticus 19:27)
If a man has sex with a woman on her period, they are both to be "cut off from their people" (Leviticus 20:18)
People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)
Anyone who curses or blasphemes God, should be stoned to death by the community.  (Leviticus 24:14-16)

Here are some others:

• Eating any animal which walks on all four and has paws (11:27)
• Picking up grapes that have fallen in your vineyard (19:10)
• Cross-breeding animals (19:19)
• Eating fruit from a tree within four years of planting it (19:23)
• Getting tattoos (19:28)
• Not standing in the presence of the elderly (19:32)
• Mistreating foreigners – “the foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born” (19:33-34) Say what????
• Blasphemy (punishable by stoning to death) (24:14)
• Selling land permanently (25:23)

And forget all about eating that bacon cheese burger. Or the pulled pork or, well a whole lot of stuff as prohibited in the Bible.

Or any shell fish.  So doubly forget about those bacon wrapped scallops. : (

Leviticus 10-11 states: And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.

Ever do any work on the Sabbeth? Cut the grass, go to buy something at the grocery store or the CVS? Your house is on fire and you call 9-11 and the fire department comes?  If so, you and all those “working” on the Sabbeth should be put to death under God’s law. Just saying…

Exodus 31:14-15 states: "Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Do the women in your family follow ALL the Biblical laws regarding menstruation? I can’t wait for the government to regulate these:

Leviticus 15:19-33

19 “Whenever a woman has her menstrual period, she will be ceremonially unclean for seven days. Anyone who touches her during that time will be unclean until evening. 20 Anything on which the woman lies or sits during the time of her period will be unclean. 21 If any of you touch her bed, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 22 If you touch any object she has sat on, you must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 23 This includes her bed or any other object she has sat on; you will be unclean until evening if you touch it. 24 If a man has sexual intercourse with her and her blood touches him, her menstrual impurity will be transmitted to him. He will remain unclean for seven days, and any bed on which he lies will be unclean. 25 “If a woman has a flow of blood for many days that is unrelated to her menstrual period, or if the blood continues beyond the normal period, she is ceremonially unclean. As during her menstrual period, the woman will be unclean as long as the discharge continues. 26 Any bed she lies on and any object she sits on during that time will be unclean, just as during her normal menstrual period. 27 If any of you touch these things, you will be ceremonially unclean. You must wash your clothes and bathe yourself in water, and you will remain unclean until evening. 28 “When the woman’s bleeding stops, she must count off seven days. Then she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons and present them to the priest at the entrance of the Tabernacle. 30 The priest will offer one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. Through this process, the priest will purify her before the LORD for the ceremonial impurity caused by her bleeding. 31 “This is how you will guard the people of Israel from ceremonial uncleanness. Otherwise they would die, for their impurity would defile my Tabernacle that stands among them. 32 These are the instructions for dealing with anyone who has a bodily discharge—a man who is unclean because of an emission of semen 33 or a woman during her menstrual period. It applies to any man or woman who has a bodily discharge, and to a man who has sexual intercourse with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.”

Then there is also God’s words, his Biblical laws about a woman after she gives birth. Let me know if you and your family follows God’s laws as written in the Bible as it pertains here:

Leviticus 12New International Version (NIV)

Purification After Childbirth

12 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding.

6 “‘When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the tent of meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering.[a] 7 He shall offer them before the Lord to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.

“‘These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. 8 But if she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.’”

There are many, many other “Biblical” laws.  Do you follow all of them? Do you want our government, in flagrant opposition to our Constitution, to enforce all these religious laws or just the ones you want enforced?
So This Is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause

Offline Suppressed

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #395 on: September 27, 2017, 05:34:46 pm »
@Suppressed
1 Corinthians 7:7a does not mean that at all.  It means we should be content in ourselves and our worship of God.   But that if they must then they can marry.

I'd suggest a little study before you quote any more bible verses.

@driftdiver
Yes, I know that interpretation.  And you nail it with "if they must".


Gotta run...bbl.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 05:35:20 pm by Suppressed »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #396 on: September 27, 2017, 05:36:08 pm »

And, I thought you didn't have a porch?

Wellll, in that case, I suppose YOU DO :)

And my porch is not yet off the docket for this year. If I can get the piers set and the roof on, the rest can happen this winter. Unlikely now, but I am still shooting for it.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #397 on: September 27, 2017, 05:36:23 pm »
  I didn't say it was entirely, but I think it's more than "very small".  Twin studies and statistical analyses have revealed it to be much larger "nature" than you're implying.

Okay, so let's look at those examples.  People also have other conditions that result from such stressors.  Let's even call homosexuality a mental illness for purposes of discussion.  Happy?

Now tell me what other mental disorder we make illegal?  Do we lock up people with anxiety if they are no threat to public safety?  Do we fine people for suffering from depression? 

And explain how making it illegal will make it all safer, please.   

Thank you for pointing out that making it illegal didn't stop negative effects of it.

@Suppressed
Do we endorse mental illness and say its good?   Do we give people with depression special legal protections?  Do we allow them to have special parades where they wander around naked and masturbate in public?

I never said making it illegal would make it safer.   In fact very early in the thread I said that if people are willing to ignore God on this subject then a law probably wouldn't help.   I'm paraphrasing of course because I'm too lazy to go back and copy it.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #398 on: September 27, 2017, 05:37:47 pm »
So two hot chicks making out is alright? Time for me to start heading to church....

@Frank Cannon
I know a lady who became a Jew so she could have a girlfriend.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: ‘Homosexual Conduct Should Be Illegal,’ Roy Moore Said in ‘05 Interview
« Reply #399 on: September 27, 2017, 05:39:33 pm »
Wellll, in that case, I suppose YOU DO :)

And my porch is not yet off the docket for this year. If I can get the piers set and the roof on, the rest can happen this winter. Unlikely now, but I am still shooting for it.

 :beer: