Ted Cruz says 'consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want in the bedroom' as he promises his account will never like porn again

[Hoodat]

The 'problem' seems to be in the wording and/or figurines on said cake.

If you bake cakes for profit, and you know how to read, you're bound to decorate it as the customer prefers.

So if I ask for boysenberry icing, and the baker refuses because they don't offer boysenberry icing on their menu, then they should be required to pay me $135,000 at the point of a gun?

[DCPatriot]

So if I ask for boysenberry icing, and the baker refuses because they don't offer boysenberry icing on their menu, then they should be required to pay me $135,000 at the point of a gun?

Heck no!    I'm with your POV on this.   If you don't carry it in your inventory of 'icings'?  Not guilty!

And the customer should pay 100% of attorney fees of the baker.

[catfish1957]

It sure was. 

Google was just a gleam in Larry Page's eye, back then.

I belonged to the BMW 'auto' group and learned a lot about their M-series models...and fought bitterly with statheads on the baseball groups.

The statheads savaged Mike Bordick as the replacement for Cal Ripken, Jr. at shortstop, hitting .236 with an OPS of just 636 in his maiden season with the Orioles.

Today, Mike Bordick is in the Orioles' HOF, and hold the record for the best defensive shortstop in Orioles' history.  NOT Cal Ripken, Jr..

 

IMO... Mark Belanger was the best defensive SS in O's history.  He and Brooks Robinson anchored what is probably the greatest right side of the  diamond defense in MLB history

[Cyber Liberty]

Heck no!    I'm with your POV on this.   If you don't carry it in your inventory of 'icings'?  Not guilty!

And the customer should pay 100% of attorney fees of the baker.

The law, as currently understood, demands bakers of cake to provide whatever toppings desired by the customer, whether it's on the menu or not.  If the baker doesn't like it, then he can welcome his new profession as a Walmart greeter.  I'm not sure if this situation is due for any improvement, now that the courts have arrogated the power to decide  that to themselves. The mentioned Boysenberry example is very real, not "silly" as has been otherwise noted.

If a business cannot afford to argue its case before a court, that's just too bad.  Courts cannot be held responsible for every undercapitalized company.  I think that's how a politiccian described it.

[DCPatriot]

IMO... Mark Belanger was the best defensive SS in O's history.  He and Brooks Robinson anchored what is probably the greatest right side of the  diamond defense in MLB history

No argument from me, there, @catfish1957

"The Blade" was also one of Earl Weaver's favorite players and said one of the reasons he retired was having to approach players he loved to tell them "it's over".

Alas....  Mike Bordick was savaged by hardcore O's fans.

Today, he co-hosts games and is enshrined in the Orioles Hall of Fame.

[Suppressed]

If a business cannot afford to argue its case before a court, that's just too bad.

If any profession should be socialized, it should be law, not medicine.

[DCPatriot]

The law, as currently understood, demands bakers of cake to provide whatever toppings desired by the customer, whether it's on the menu or not.  If the baker doesn't like it, then he can welcome his new profession as a Walmart greeter.  I'm not sure if this situation is due for any improvement, now that the courts have arrogated the power to decide  that to themselves. The mentioned Boysenberry example is very real, not "silly" as has been otherwise noted.

If a business cannot afford to argue its case before a court, that's just too bad.  Courts cannot be held responsible for every undercapitalized company.  I think that's how a politiccian described it.

Can't argue with that, @Cyber Liberty

[Smokin Joe]

Can they quit baking cakes and go into some other line of business?  Then they're not slaves.

Try to put yourself in the position of someone who has principles, counsellor. I understand this can be difficult, and that that is an occupational hazard, but for these people there are simply things they will not create and that they will not do.
 Are there cases you won't take? Could any of those be presented as 'discriminating'?
I realize a significant amount of lawyering is just making sure the appropriate blanks get filled in, the 'i's are dotted and 't's are crossed, etc., but imagine that there is something you just won't do, and someone comes in the door and tries to hire you to do it. It isn't illegal, but it so offends your sensibilities that you just won't.
You get sued. You are free to find another profession, too. 

Don't you have the right to decline the case? to recuse yourself?

[catfish1957]

@DCPatriot

Hard Core Astros fan since 1964.  Still, back in the day the  Orioles were my favorite AL team.  And the reason was Belanger and Robinson.  I remember tales where switch hitters would hit left against a left hander, just to avoid those guys.  Boog was an easier direction. 

And the fact they had one of the greatest starting staffs in history.  I can say with pretty good certainty, that we will never see a team with 4- 20 game winners again.

[truth_seeker]

If any profession should be socialized, it should be law, not medicine.

A government lawyer? That gives me a real secure feeling, NOT.

[Sanguine]

@DCPatriot

Hard Core Astros fan since 1964.  Still, back in the day the  Orioles were my favorite AL team.  And the reason was Belanger and Robinson.  I remember tales where switch hitters would hit left against a left hander, just to avoid those guys.  Boog was an easier direction.

??

[Smokin Joe]

Your example is extreme, IMO.

The 'problem' seems to be in the wording and/or figurines on said cake.

If you bake cakes for profit, and you know how to read, you're bound to decorate it as the customer prefers.

There is an obligation to create something only if you accept the commission, only if you take the job. There was no contractual obligation to provide a cake in the first place. They refused to provide it.

They were under no obligation to bake the cake, nor decorate it.

That's likesaying if a Jewish sculptor has someone walk in the door and try to commission a monument to the medical advances made by Dr, Mengele, then the sculptor is automatically obligated to do so, whether they agreed to do so or not, no matter how offensive the subject may be to them personally, and no matter how predictable that Mr Shapiro wouldn't be interested in sculpting that.

That is the sort of thing that has been adjudicated. That those who create must cater to everyone who wants something created, no matter how personally offensive they find the thing they are being forced to create. Maybe that's because attorneys generally have no such qualms.

[Hoodat]

The law, as currently understood, demands bakers of cake to provide whatever toppings desired by the customer, whether it's on the menu or not.

That is not at all what the law says.  It may be what the judge says, but it is not what the law says.

[Hoodat]

Alas....  Mike Bordick was savaged by hardcore O's fans.

There's a name I haven't heard in a long time.  I had him pegged as a Rotisserie stud at a bargain price since there were no shortstops at the time who could hit (save Barry Larkin and Ozzie Smith).  Too bad it never panned out.

[DCPatriot]

@DCPatriot

Hard Core Astros fan since 1964.  Still, back in the day the  Orioles were my favorite AL team.  And the reason was Belanger and Robinson.  I remember tales where switch hitters would hit left against a left hander, just to avoid those guys.  Boog was an easier direction. 

And the fact they had one of the greatest starting staffs in history.  I can say with pretty good certainty, that we will never see a team with 4- 20 game winners again.

 

As with several others here on the forum....if not for President Donald Trump, we'd be good FRiends.   

[catfish1957]

 

As with several others here on the forum....if not for President Donald Trump, we'd be good FRiends.   

 

In my book baseball trumps (no pun intended) politics any day.

[Hoodat]

And the fact they had one of the greatest starting staffs in history.  I can say with pretty good certainty, that we will never see a team with 4- 20 game winners again.

All four fine pitchers.  But none could hold a candle to what this guy did that year, which will go down as the greatest athletic feat ever in the history of sports.

[catfish1957]

All four fine pitchers.  But none could hold a candle to what this guy did that year, which will go down as the greatest athletic feat ever in the history of sports.

No argument here.  i've never dropped acid, but still can't fathom how he pulled it off

BTW...there is a documentary on Netflix about the event.

[Hoodat]

As someone who has dropped acid, I can't fathom how he pulled it off either.

[DCPatriot]

In my book baseball trumps (no pun intended) politics any day.

Indeed!   

[Just_Victor]

@Oceander

So if I ask a bakery to add boysenberry icing to a cupcake they sell, and they refuse, then they should be ordered to pay me $135,000 at the point of a gun?

And how much higher should the fine be for a doctor who refuses to per4form an abortion?

@Oceander

The whole problem with your "change professions" argument is that at what point should I chose to leave my chosen profession? 

If I wait until the court case is complete, my closing down my business doesn't get me out of the settlement.

Should I shut down my business when the lawsuit is filed?

Should I shut down my business when the request is made?

What aspect of my freedom should I surrender in order to avoid the court's judgement?

If I am surendering ANY freedom to another man's desires,
Then. I .am. a. Slave....

[Cyber Liberty]

That is not at all what the law says.  It may be what the judge says, but it is not what the law says.

In practical terms, the word of a "Judge" is the law, unless you are able to make the financial investment to appeal the ruling, and then it's a crapshoot what the higher Judge will do.  It's not Just, but these are Courts of Law, not Courts of Justice.  I've started calling them "Courts of Karma," because often a Judge will decide a particular case based on events outside of the case to "level the playing field."

[Hoodat]

@Oceander
The whole problem with your "change professions" argument is that at what point should I chose to leave my chosen profession? 

If I wait until the court case is complete, my closing down my business doesn't get me out of the settlement.

Should I shut down my business when the lawsuit is filed?

Should I shut down my business when the request is made?

Imagine incurring $250,000 in student loan debt to get through medical school, yet being forced from your profession for refusing to perform an abortion.

[Hoodat]

In practical terms, the word of a "Judge" is the law, unless you are able to make the financial investment to appeal the ruling, and then it's a crapshoot what the higher Judge will do.

Yes, I get that.  Just for the record though, I wanted to point out again that there is no law requiring food service companies to provide items not on the menu.  Oceander had inferred that there was no Constitutional prohibition against formulating such a law - oblivious to the fact that no such law had ever been enacted.

[Cyber Liberty]

Imagine incurring $250,000 in student loan debt to get through medical school, yet being forced from your profession for refusing to perform an abortion.

That particular example is really ugly, because Student Loans cannot be discharged in a Bankruptcy.  It's owed no matter what happens.