Hurricane Harvey Public Advisory

[libertybele]

@Smokin Joe

Joe, you are wrong on this one.  I lived 15/20 miles from Texas City for 20 years and that is where the refineries are on the Galveston Bay.

The refineries are flooded out AND there are NO employees to go to work there.  The employees are in shelters with no home to go to.  There is no food in any store in that area as the food stores are flooded out and no one knows how long it will take to open even one store when it is rebuilt. There is no drinkable water in that area since water sources are contaminated. 

No gasoline is coming out of Texas for a long time.

Looks like 'Bloomberg' has underestimated the impact of Harvey -- this out 2 days ago (much more damage and flooding has happened since then). 

Full U.S. Tanks May Ease Risk of Fuel Shortages From Harvey

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-28/full-u-s-gas-tanks-may-ease-risk-of-fuel-shortages-from-harvey

[Smokin Joe]

Heard on the radio this morning, there are reports of gas stations in San Antonio that are completely out of gas.  Also reports of gas stations around Austin that have some grades of gas but are out of other grades (premium grade, mostly.)

No ethanol premium is best for fueling boat motors, chainsaws, generators, pumps, and other small engines, especially older ones. Ethanol, especially in older fuel systems, causes problems which can wreck the engine, or at least the fuel pump, injection and carburetors.

[GrouchoTex]

Depending on the Barker and Addicks reservoirs, and the brazos cresting, I may be able to get to work tomorrow, from Sugar Land to Katy, but still a bit unsure.
A co- worker made it from the Woodlands to Katy today, so things are looking up.
Been sunny all day.

[libertybele]

ExxonMobil refineries are damaged in Hurricane Harvey, releasing hazardous pollutants

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/08/29/exxonmobil-refineries-damaged-in-hurricane-harvey-releasing-hazardous-pollutants/?utm_term=.a500ca2e2cbd

[Bigun]

ExxonMobil refineries are damaged in Hurricane Harvey, releasing hazardous pollutants

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/08/29/exxonmobil-refineries-damaged-in-hurricane-harvey-releasing-hazardous-pollutants/?utm_term=.a500ca2e2cbd

As usual, the WP is hyperventilating about essentially nothing.

[Smokin Joe]

ExxonMobil refineries are damaged in Hurricane Harvey, releasing hazardous pollutants

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2017/08/29/exxonmobil-refineries-damaged-in-hurricane-harvey-releasing-hazardous-pollutants/?utm_term=.a500ca2e2cbd

Thanks, @libertybele !

From that article:

The idle refineries have a capacity of 3.2 million barrels a day, equal to a third of Gulf coast capacity and 17.6 percent of total U.S. refining capacity. Further closures are likely as the storm moves east into Louisiana, where there is another 1.65 million barrels a day of oil refining capacity.
The logjam of tankers and trucks was adding to woes. Valero, which had closed its two refineries in the Corpus Christi area, said it was looking to reopen the facilities but that damaged pipeline, port and transportation infrastructure could delay re-openings.
Bloomberg News reported that Marathon said it was closing its Galveston Bay refinery because it was running out of crude, which could not be delivered because of port closures.
Gasoline prices for September delivery also rose amid signs that the Gulf’s woes could spread. The Colonial Pipeline, the main link between the heart of the nation’s oil and gas industry and consumers in the northeast, said that supplies of refined petroleum products from the Houston area had been disrupted.

Two things are likely from this, an increase in refined products prices, and decrease in crude prices for the short term (weeks to months).

Considering the magnitude of the event, chemical releases from submerged automobiles likely compare with the releases from the refineries, and may dwarf those refinery releases. (admittedly, I have no numbers for the latter, and the chemicals involved are different.

[Elderberry]

No ethanol premium is best for fueling boat motors, chainsaws, generators, pumps, and other small engines, especially older ones. Ethanol, especially in older fuel systems, causes problems which can wreck the engine, or at least the fuel pump, injection and carburetors.

It may be best,but very hard to find in my neck of the woods(now swamp). I've been running 87 Octane E10 gasoline in all my small engines with nary a problem. I just keep the gas fresh.

[Smokin Joe]

It may be best,but very hard to find in my neck of the woods(now swamp). I've been running 87 Octane E10 gasoline in all my small engines with nary a problem. I just keep the gas fresh.

Most I know have had problems with small engines which run E10. I think part of the problem stems from those engines being subject to temperature changes in humid environments causing absorbtion of moisture in the fuel tanks, corrosion in fuel systems, and the ethanol being incompatible with the rubber parts in older fuel systems. When I ran 4 stroke engines dry, I had less trouble with E10, but it generally isn't good for chainsaws and the like (two stroke engines). There are additives, but I have two places I can get 91 octane E0 here, for roughly 30 cents more a gallon than 89 octane E10. For me, it has been worth the extra.

[Elderberry]

I'd buy E0, but its not available. Not many places more humid than Houston. I run 3 two cycle engines every week along with my four cycle lawn mower. All I use is pump 87 octane and a good two cycle oil. No additives. I just keep the gas fresh. Or the alcohol will absorb water and settle out of the fuel. No damage to tanks, fuel lines, or carburetors. I also have 4 chainsaws I periodically run. I dump the fuel out of those after each use, because I don't know when I'll run them again. I've heard the bugaboo about gasahol in small engines, but personally, I haven't seen it.

[Smokin Joe]

I'd buy E0, but its not available. Not many places more humid than Houston. I run 3 two cycle engines every week along with my four cycle lawn mower. All I use is pump 87 octane and a good two cycle oil. No additives. I just keep the gas fresh. Or the alcohol will absorb water and settle out of the fuel. No damage to tanks, fuel lines, or carburetors. I also have 4 chainsaws I periodically run. I dump the fuel out of those after each use, because I don't know when I'll run them again. I've heard the bugaboo about gasahol in small engines, but personally, I haven't seen it.

Consider yourself fortunate. It may be that we are a long way from the blend point, too, but I (and others I know) have had plenty of problems that went away with E0.

[Victoria33]

I'm sorry to have to inform you that it is you who is wrong here.  There are many refineries in Texas other than the ONE (BP)at Texas city.  Gasoline is flowing out of Texas in copious quantities as we speak and more production capacity will be back on line very quickly.

@Bigun

I didn't mean just the ones in Texas City, I meant all of them in South Texas, including Beaumont and Port Arthur and Louisiana near the coast.  You are the one who is wrong but believe what you want as you usually do. I won't respond to you again about this  I am glad you didn't flood.

[Bigun]

@Bigun

I didn't mean just the ones in Texas City, I meant all of them in South Texas, including Beaumont and Port Arthur and Louisiana near the coast.  You are the one who is wrong but believe what you want as you usually do. I won't respond to you again about this  I am glad you didn't flood.

@Victoria33

I worked in and around those pipe orchards for a good portion of my life so i suspect I know more about it than you.  I normally ignore you hyperventilating about this kind of thing but could not do that in this case. 

Thanks for your concern!  I wish you only the best!

[thackney]

@Smokin Joe

Joe, you are wrong on this one.  I lived 15/20 miles from Texas City for 20 years and that is where the refineries are on the Galveston Bay.

The refineries are flooded out AND there are NO employees to go to work there.  The employees are in shelters with no home to go to.  There is no food in any store in that area as the food stores are flooded out and no one knows how long it will take to open even one store when it is rebuilt. There is no drinkable water in that area since water sources are contaminated. 

No gasoline is coming out of Texas for a long time.

You are flat wrong on this.  I'm in this business and in the area.  The Refinery and Petrochem industry isn't that knocked down.  I have several friends working there now.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Thanks, @libertybele !

From that article:
Two things are likely from this, an increase in refined products prices, and decrease in crude prices for the short term (weeks to months).

Considering the magnitude of the event, chemical releases from submerged automobiles likely compare with the releases from the refineries, and may dwarf those refinery releases. (admittedly, I have no numbers for the latter, and the chemicals involved are different.

I'll say even more.

 From my experience of working offshore and south Louisiana for 11 years, and watching many storms come through at the time, a hurricane is the most natural washing machine in existence.

We lost many tank batteries with a lot of SW or oil, and after the storm passed, there was NOTHING left, nothing to clean up, nothing to even find even if one searched.

It is like placing one drop of oil in a washing machine, letting the cycle run its course, then trying to find the oil.
 It will be gone, cleaned up by nature, which has a whole lot more powerful scrubbing agent than man could ever hope to replicate.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@Smokin Joe

Joe, you are wrong on this one.  I lived 15/20 miles from Texas City for 20 years and that is where the refineries are on the Galveston Bay.

The refineries are flooded out AND there are NO employees to go to work there.  The employees are in shelters with no home to go to.  There is no food in any store in that area as the food stores are flooded out and no one knows how long it will take to open even one store when it is rebuilt. There is no drinkable water in that area since water sources are contaminated. 

No gasoline is coming out of Texas for a long time.

Please demonstrate this is not just a radical opinion but offer some real proof it is true.

And don't bother on the lack of gasoline in Texas, I know for a fact that is just an outright wrong statement that has no basis whatsoever on facts.

[Suppressed]

You are flat wrong on this.  I'm in this business and in the area.  The Refinery and Petrochem industry isn't that knocked down.  I have several friends working there now.

@thackney
Thanks for the report.  Your location is listed as "Houstonish" so I'm glad you're okay.

I see reports of Motiva in Port Arthur "shutting down".  Do you know whether they're moving units into circulation or completely shutting down? I don't trust the MSM to report this correctly.

I ask because I know someone at Motiva who evidently can't be reached, and I'm wondering whether he's lost in the confusion or is in danger.

[Elderberry]

Motiva Port Arthur refinery shuts down after power outage

Entergy Corp. restored electricity to the three plants in Port Arthur, owned by Motiva, Total Petrochemicals USA Inc. and Valero Energy Corp., which account for 1.08 million barrels a day of refining capacity.

Motiva is a refining and marketing joint venture of Saudi Refining Inc., a subsidiary of Saudi Arabian Oil Co., and Shell Oil Co., a unit of Royal Dutch Shell Plc.

Kimberly Windon, a spokeswoman for Shell in Houston, didn’t immediately respond to an e-mail asking for comment on the Motiva refinery’s status. She said yesterday that “we will bring our units back online only when it is safe to do so.”

http://fuelfix.com/blog/2013/04/15/motiva-port-arthur-refinery-shuts-down-after-power-outage/

[catfish1957]

You are flat wrong on this.  I'm in this business and in the area.  The Refinery and Petrochem industry isn't that knocked down.  I have several friends working there now.

I was a SHE Mgr. and lead emergency operations, at a petrochemical facility.  I only expect temporary curtailment of capacities across the board.  This was not Ike.

Plants are typically have over-design on the ability to pump rainfall type storm events.  Add labrynths of containment, levees,etc, and  the chance of rain related (only) outages are pretty rare.  Storm surge like Ike or other huge hurricanes which can innundate plants are a different matter.  Considering Corpus was on the left of the storm, and subsequent storm movement landed with lesser surge.........  I am guessing these are not related to surge.  OTOH,  you have to realize that there are other storm related issues....  manpower (getting them to work),  feedstock and product transportation logistics issues tbat are much more likely to disrupt operations.

[Wingnut]

I am going to post this here once.  This is for future reference for those that live in a "zone". This is not for Houston, cuz it is too late for the poor bastards. So, If you are reading this, take note and copy this.

WTF to do before a major storm hits you and The Government will step in to help you rebuild. .   What do you need to do? As a former disaster assistance worker, I can tell you FEMA and Small Business Administration( SBA provides low interest loans to home owners affected by a disaster) will need your deed (found in closing documents), a copy of your flood insurance, a copy of home owners insurance, your social security numbers, your drivers license. Two years copies of your tax returns. A copy of your most recent pay stub. If your own a business 3 years tax returns or copies since your business started if less than 3 years. If you own a business provide your most recent financial papers. Car registrations and if you own a manufactured home registration of that home. Other things birth certificates, marriage licenses. Put them in a box you can easily carry away with you if you have to evacuate.

That is all.

[libertybele]

I am going to post this here once.  This is for future reference for those that live in a "zone". This is not for Houston, cuz it is too late for the poor bastards. So, If you are reading this, take note and copy this.

WTF to do before a major storm hits you and The Government will step in to help you rebuild. .   What do you need to do? As a former disaster assistance worker, I can tell you FEMA and Small Business Administration( SBA provides low interest loans to home owners affected by a disaster) will need your deed (found in closing documents), a copy of your flood insurance, a copy of home owners insurance, your social security numbers, your drivers license. Two years copies of your tax returns. A copy of your most recent pay stub. If your own a business 3 years tax returns or copies since your business started if less than 3 years. If you own a business provide your most recent financial papers. Car registrations and if you own a manufactured home registration of that home. Other things birth certificates, marriage licenses. Put them in a box you can easily carry away with you if you have to evacuate.

That is all.

Questions ... why do they need tax returns and pay stubs??   Sounds like means testing?

Good info to know.  Thank you.

[Oceander]

Questions ... why do they need tax returns and pay stubs??   Sounds like means testing?

Good info to know.  Thank you.

To show source of income for repayment of the loan.

[Wingnut]

To show source of income for repayment of the loan.

Exactly.  To show qualification for repayment

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@libertybele -Windgnut already said it is the rules.  He don't make 'em.

[libertybele]

Exactly.  To show qualification for repayment

Oops -- didn't see the SBA -- next time I'll read through it again, before asking a stupid question.   

[Wingnut]

Oops -- didn't see the SBA -- next time I'll read through it again, before asking a stupid question.   

Hey.   No problem.  I need to add.  Car titles.  Take them too.