Hurricane Harvey Public Advisory

[Sanguine]

Disagree.
More died during the evacuation of Rita than during this once in a lifetime event, so far, at least.
How would you go about evacuating 6.5 million residents safely?

Exactly.  I don't think it's possible without a good week's worth of warning.

[Smokin Joe]

Disagree.
More died during the evacuation of Rita than during this once in a lifetime event, so far, at least.
How would you go about evacuating 6.5 million residents safely?

The idea of picking the most flood prone areas is that you evacuate by area, with the most vulnerable areas evacuated first.
If an area flooded in a lesser event, they go out first.
If it didn't, they go later.
Hopefully, that way mass panic can be avoided and the evacuation can be stretched out some while getting those most likely to be flooded out relocated first.

[GrouchoTex]

The idea of picking the most flood prone areas is that you evacuate by area, with the most vulnerable areas evacuated first.
If an area flooded in a lesser event, they go out first.
If it didn't, they go later.
Hopefully, that way mass panic can be avoided and the evacuation can be stretched out some while getting those most likely to be flooded out relocated first.

You have to understand the size and length of this thing.
Places that haven't flooded before, and weren't expected to, are seeing water.
Coast was evacuated before landfall.
Warning was issued for people to get out of areas that are prone to flooding.
We are seeing flooding everywhere.

[Smokin Joe]

You have to understand the size and length of this thing.
Places that haven't flooded before, and weren't expected to, are seeing water.
Coast was evacuated before landfall.
Warning was issued for people to get out of areas that are prone to flooding.
We are seeing flooding everywhere.

I heard one guy talking about a 'thousand year event', and that says a lot. Is the whole town inundated or are there some high areas in Houston that are still above the floods (aside from interchanges and overpasses)?

It sounds like the warnings to evacuate were staged to some extent, just that the storm was underestimated.

[Gefn]

DrudgeReport has this link- live Tv from Texas.

http://www.khou.com/weather/houston-weather-forecast/62951506


Just passing it on to all of us in the other 49 states.

[Elderberry]

I heard one guy talking about a 'thousand year event', and that says a lot. Is the whole town inundated or are there some high areas in Houston that are still above the floods (aside from interchanges and overpasses)?

It sounds like the warnings to evacuate were staged to some extent, just that the storm was underestimated.

No, the whole town is not inundated. But yes there are large areas that are. The Houston metroplex is 1,660 sq. miles. And this storm has affected much more than Houston. I do not know the percentage of inundated areas, but it has affected a lot of people and their homes and businesses.

[RetBobbyMI]

I think they might have finally opened a third route...but I'm not sure.  I drove to Austin from Midland once a month for my Guard drills.

Longest military I had to drive in was from Ft. Stewart Georgia to West Palm Beach Florida after Hurricane Andrew...painful doesn't begin to describe it LOL!

Poplar Bluff, MO to Fort Stewart for AT is a LONG drive.  Worse part was going down hill after Chattanooga with a bunch of old semi rigs (M55 tractor trucks).

[txradioguy]

Poplar Bluff, MO to Fort Stewart for AT is a LONG drive.  Worse part was going down hill after Chattanooga with a bunch of old semi rigs (M55 tractor trucks).

You should have gotten a medal and the drivers badge for that!

[txradioguy]

The Harris County Flood Warning System.  Says it will let you check flood stage and bayou levels not just in Houston but in the entire area.

https://www.harriscountyfws.org/GageDetail

[libertybele]

The idea of picking the most flood prone areas is that you evacuate by area, with the most vulnerable areas evacuated first.
If an area flooded in a lesser event, they go out first.
If it didn't, they go later.
Hopefully, that way mass panic can be avoided and the evacuation can be stretched out some while getting those most likely to be flooded out relocated first.

Exactly and you redirect the lanes of traffic on the freeways so that ALL lanes are open to exit -- send in school buses, commercial buses, city buses, airport shuttles, etc., to cut back on the traffic.  Obviously not everyone is going to be evacuated at once, but certainly those areas most prone to flooding should have been evacuated ahead of the storm.

[thackney]

I heard one guy talking about a 'thousand year event', and that says a lot. Is the whole town inundated or are there some high areas in Houston that are still above the floods (aside from interchanges and overpasses)?

It sounds like the warnings to evacuate were staged to some extent, just that the storm was underestimated.

Most of the greater Houston area is above the flooding.  Lots of areas have the roads out blocked.  Lots of pockets of low elevation or bottled-necked draining have flooded.  Very widespread.  Dayton (NE of Houston) has now recorded 40 inches of rain.

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/nfdscc1.html

[Smokin Joe]

No, the whole town is not inundated. But yes there are large areas that are. The Houston metroplex is 1,660 sq. miles. And this storm has affected much more than Houston. I do not know the percentage of inundated areas, but it has affected a lot of people and their homes and businesses.

Just from what I could catch, the devastation and flooding cover a massive area. Short of aerial shots, I don't think people will be able to comprehend it, if then. There is a lot of land between Downtown and the coast, and that's just part of the affected area, going clear around to Corpus Christi and east into Louisiana. The storm isn't over yet, either.

[libertybele]

You have to understand the size and length of this thing.
Places that haven't flooded before, and weren't expected to, are seeing water.
Coast was evacuated before landfall.
Warning was issued for people to get out of areas that are prone to flooding.
We are seeing flooding everywhere.

I get that.  In the same light hurricanes are very unpredictable -- the meteorologists/scientists, etc., have all kinds of computer models that the use to project the path and size of the storm.  After hurricane Charley they began to calculate the storm surge separately.  I find it hard to believe that with the size and intensity of this storm and while predicting it would make its way along the coast and possibly the coast of Louisiana that they didn't know that they had a monster storm headed their way.  Yes it intensified very rapidly, but they should have begun evacuating when they realized it was barreling towards the coast at an unprecedented speed.  The mayor of Huston needs his butt handed to him.  If it were true that they didn't know how big it was going to be, how in the world were they able to predict that the storm was going to linger, the amount of rainfall it would bring, the amount of storm surge and the possibility it may go out into the Gulf and come back?  They knew.  The governor tried to evacuate, and the mayor of Huston ignored him and he and his cronies mocked the governor. 

[Elderberry]

Most of the greater Houston area is above the flooding.  Lots of areas have the roads out blocked.  Lots of pockets of low elevation or bottled-necked draining have flooded.  Very widespread.  Dayton (NE of Houston) has now recorded 40 inches of rain.

http://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/discussions/nfdscc1.html

I have property on the bank of the Trinity north of Dayton in Dayton Lakes. It'll be a good while before I'll be able to make it back up there. River's out of its banks.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=HGX&gage=LBYT2

[Smokin Joe]

The Harris County Flood Warning System.  Says it will let you check flood stage and bayou levels not just in Houston but in the entire area.

https://www.harriscountyfws.org/GageDetail

Connection failed to load, and I won't load up their server with multiple requests. Other people need that data far more than I do.

[Smokin Joe]

I get that.  In the same light hurricanes are very unpredictable -- the meteorologists/scientists, etc., have all kinds of computer models that the use to project the path and size of the storm.  After hurricane Charley they began to calculate the storm surge separately.  I find it hard to believe that with the size and intensity of this storm and while predicting it would make its way along the coast and possibly the coast of Louisiana that they didn't know that they had a monster storm headed their way.  Yes it intensified very rapidly, but they should have begun evacuating when they realized it was barreling towards the coast at an unprecedented speed.  The mayor of Huston needs his butt handed to him.  If it were true that they didn't know how big it was going to be, how in the world were they able to predict that the storm was going to linger, the amount of rainfall it would bring, the amount of storm surge and the possibility it may go out into the Gulf and come back?  They knew.  The governor tried to evacuate, and the mayor of Huston ignored him and he and his cronies mocked the governor.

There was a high pressure ridge to the NW, and a high to the NE, the storm was headed into that pocket of high pressure, so stalling near the coast was pretty much predictable. Sure, the weathermen screw it up from time to time, but this one was not too hard to see coming, even if the intensity was unprecedented.
It is a tough call, though and I won't second-guess anyone until I find out they knew more in time to do something about it.
A massive evacuation will cost everyone in lost revenue, probably kill a certain number of people just in traffic accidents, and expose a lot of businesses and homes to looters, so that has the onus of being a serious political liability if it proves unnecessary. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[libertybele]

There was a high pressure ridge to the NW, and a high to the NE, the storm was headed into that pocket of high pressure, so stalling near the coast was pretty much predictable. Sure, the weathermen screw it up from time to time, but this one was not too hard to see coming, even if the intensity was unprecedented.
It is a tough call, though and I won't second-guess anyone until I find out they knew more in time to do something about it.
A massive evacuation will cost everyone in lost revenue, probably kill a certain number of people just in traffic accidents, and expose a lot of businesses and homes to looters, so that has the onus of being a serious political liability if it proves unnecessary. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I appreciate other's opinions ad don't really care to ping pong this back and forth anymore; bottom line is we have a whole lot of people needing help and a state that has been devastated.  I feel that the mayor put more in jeopardy than was needed and he should accept blame for going against the recommendations of the governor of the State.

At any rate, praying for those in Huston and the surrounding area and prayers for all those going in for the rescues. 

[thackney]

Connection failed to load, and I won't load up their server with multiple requests. Other people need that data far more than I do.

@Smokin Joe

Try this link.  Far less specific detail and less web traffic.  Also covers much larger area showing major flooding over hundreds of miles.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/index.php?wfo=hgx

[AllThatJazzZ]

Exactly.  I don't think it's possible without a good week's worth of warning.

@Sanguine
@GrouchoTex

Y'all are right.

What I envision when people talk of a mandatory or even wide-spread evacuation of Houston is I-45 in Rita except on the south side of Houston. You have absolutely got to let the coastal areas get through Houston first (can anyone say "storm surge?"), and that in itself is a logistical nightmare. Not until those areas have dispersed should Houston even consider implementing an official evacuation.

As someone who has inhabited the coastal towns most of my life, I'm a little concerned about all the insistence that Houston should have called for an official evacuation. If hurricanes moved more predictably and gave us more time to plan and scoot out of harm's way, this wouldn't really be a discussion. But they don't, and that's just the nature of the beast. In truth, Houston is where we always evacuated to when running from these storms. Now you say we can't seek safety from the storm surge in Houston? I'm not on board with that, and I'm not happy that this whole thing seems to have political roots.

[GrouchoTex]

100 % correct
Can be 2nd guessed, no matter which way it went.

[Elderberry]

At any rate, praying for those in Huston and the surrounding area and prayers for all those going in for the rescues.

What did I miss?

What has happened in Huston, PA?

[thackney]

@Sanguine
@GrouchoTex

Y'all are right.

What I envision when people talk of a mandatory or even wide-spread evacuation of Houston is I-45 in Rita except on the south side of Houston. You have absolutely got to let the coastal areas get through Houston first (can anyone say "storm surge?"), and that in itself is a logistical nightmare. Not until those areas have dispersed should Houston even consider implementing an official evacuation.

As someone who has inhabited the coastal towns most of my life, I'm a little concerned about all the insistence that Houston should have called for an official evacuation. If hurricanes moved more predictably and gave us more time to plan and scoot out of harm's way, this wouldn't really be a discussion. But they don't, and that's just the nature of the beast. In truth, Houston is where we always evacuated to when running from these storms. Now you say we can't seek safety from the storm surge in Houston? I'm not on board with that, and I'm not happy that this whole thing seems to have political roots.

Exactly.  They got word to evacuate the flood prone areas near the coast and too low by Rivers and Bayous.  And they keep expanding the evacuations as needed as levees and the like have become threatened.  Trying to evacuate everyone at this population just plugs the highways with cars out of gas trapping the people that truely needed to get out.

If you live in the coastal area, you need to have food and supplies for a week.  You may not flood but passage ways will become blocked.  And you need to have a plan for when you need to get out.  And be prepared to be flexible and adapt with what comes.

[Bigun]

I have property on the bank of the Trinity north of Dayton in Dayton Lakes. It'll be a good while before I'll be able to make it back up there. River's out of its banks.

http://water.weather.gov/ahps2/hydrograph.php?wfo=HGX&gage=LBYT2

Lake Livingston is currently dumping 110,600 cubic feet per second so it's bad indeed!

[thackney]

Help is coming in from many places, far away.

https://www.facebook.com/FDNY/posts/10155501008945729

The New York Task Force-1 team is a compilation of FDNY and NYPD members, all from Special Operations. We're being deployed from New York City to Texas to help in rescue and recovery. We are set to stage in San Antonio and we're going to await orders depending on the severity of the damage. We are set up for all types of rescues, including swiftwater rescues. We have a compilation of tools that include boats, motors, dry suits, rescue equipment for collapsed structures, rope equipment for confined spaces, and a large compilation of Haz-Mat equipment and tools. We're also supplied with a large, self-sufficient cache of food and supplies that make us sustainable for up to 72 hours in a row. I believe we're ready to face any danger," says FDNY Battalion Chief Jack Flatley, Task Force Leader of New York City’s elite Urban Search and Rescue Team (USAR) NY Task Force-1, which was deployed in the early hours of Sunday, August 27, to assist those affected by Hurricane Harvey. The team is comprised of FDNY and NYPD members trained to respond to catastrophic events, and it has been activated in the past to assist with emergency response throughout the world, including Hurricane Katrina and the 2010 earthquake in Haiti. In 2016, the team rescued/removed over 100 people affected by Hurricane Matthew in North Carolina. FDNY Rescue Paramedic Silvana Uzcategui says, "We are trained to save lives before patients are extricated from natural or man-made disasters. Our role in Texas is to provide medical care, to take care of civilians and the task force members. We're in the disaster zone. We're expecting torrential rains, winds, floods, and chaotic conditions. We're ready for it.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Braeswood, is where the Astrodome was. Used to be the Fluor Houston Bldg., which had the entire basement flooded late 70s/early 80s.

Question: Don't they have historic flooding maps of lowest lying areas, which could have been evacuated?

Seems like the Houston is another dumb ass.......

Ever watch the building going on near beaches after they get hit by hurricanes?  Happens again and again wherever you look.

People are not stupid, they are simply rebuilding where there are attractive areas to build like along a beach view or near a job like in Houston.

I personally would not do it, but are people stupid remaining in an area like, say New England where snows can cause terrible accidents every year?  How about fires like in Southern California?  Of course not, they are near an attractive area and wish to do so in spite of what weather does.