Ted Cruz Calls Charlottesville Car Attack Deliberate ‘Domestic Terrorism’, Urges Justice Dept. Investigation

[sneakypete]

Actually, it is wrong to say it's impossible to prove a negative. That's a common fallacy.

For example, if you can prove a light switch is on, you can prove that it's not off.

@Suppressed

Close,but no cigar. You can prove a light bulb is good if it is emitting light,but the switch could be faulty allowing it to glow with the switch off,or the bulb itself could be burned out and not glowing even though it is getting electricity.

[Hoodat]

The key ingredient in the 'negative' fallacy is the lack of time dependency.  The fallacy does not address a specific point in time - i.e. at this moment, the switch is NOT ON.  Instead, it offers the premise of proving something that never existed - in this case proving that the switch was turned off.  Looking at the switch in the ON position, there is no way to prove that it was ever off.  Thus, the fallacy.

The earlier fallacy brought up was this:

I'd be shocked if someone could prove that UVA didn't help organize and pay for the anti-protest gathering in addition to inviting them to town.

How can you prove that someone did not do something?  How can you prove that Suppressed did not turn the switch ON regardless of whether the switch is currently ON or OFF?  Sure, I saw Joe turn the switch ON.  But what about before that?  Could Suppressed have turned it on then?  Just because no one saw a tree fall in the forest does not prove it didn't fall.

[Oceander]

Well, if it had contained barbiturates, it would have been called "7 Down".

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Given that this happened in Charlottesville,Va,home of UVA and all the leftist loons that teach in that school and live in that area,it's pretty much a slam dunk. I'd be shocked if someone could prove that UVA didn't help organize and pay for the anti-protest gathering in addition to inviting them to town.

We are talking about a group of people that think Regan was a Nazi being in total control of the city.

When I posted "one could almost think the violence was intentional" .... I forgot to add the /sarc tag @sneakypete

My bad.    

[TomSea]

I don't know the particular incident but there was some sort of killing of a minority when Bush 41 was in office and he called out the justice department to go and investigate, I think a policeman shot someone.  It appears for some incidences, that is the automatic thing to do.

That may have been in Liberty city.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States

List of civil unrest incidences in the US. Though, there seems to be shock today, we have indeed gone through these many times before.

[Silver Pines]

For the record, here is the statement of Sen. Ted Cruz:

    “It’s tragic and heartbreaking to see hatred and racism once again mar our great Nation with bloodshed. Heidi’s and my prayers are with the loved ones of those killed and injured in the ongoing violence in Charlottesville. The First Amendment protects the rights of all Americans to speak their minds peaceably, but violence, brutality, and murder have no place in a civilized society.

    The Nazis, the KKK, and white supremacists are repulsive and evil, and all of us have a moral obligation to speak out against the lies, bigotry, anti-Semitism, and hatred that they propagate. Having watched the horrifying video of the car deliberately crashing into a crowd of protesters, I urge the Department of Justice to immediately investigate and prosecute this grotesque act of domestic terrorism.

    These bigots want to tear our country apart, but they will fail. America is far better than this. Our Nation was built on fundamental truths, none more central than the proposition ‘that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.'”

I find no fault in anything Cruz has said here.  I share his sentiments on the evils of lies, bigotry, and hate.  And I share his love for Jefferson's words in our Declaration of who we are to be as a nation.

Yet there are opportunists here who exude nothing but contempt for this.

@Hoodat

Cruz was right, quite simply.  Someone got murdered, he called it out.  People can cry all they want about the right to assemble and protest, but it's a Constitutional right, no matter how much we might dislike some of those taking advantage of that right.  "They're to blame someone rammed them with a car and committed murder" just doesn't wash.  Not if we're being intellectually honest and thinking with our brains instead of our emotions.

I hope Trump will take a lesson from Cruz, and name it and condemn it.

[sneakypete]

The key ingredient in the 'negative' fallacy is the lack of time dependency.  The fallacy does not address a specific point in time - i.e. at this moment, the switch is NOT ON.  Instead, it offers the premise of proving something that never existed - in this case proving that the switch was turned off.  Looking at the switch in the ON position, there is no way to prove that it was ever off.  Thus, the fallacy.

The earlier fallacy brought up was this:

How can you prove that someone did not do something?

Fair enough. I will change what I wrote to "I'd be shocked if UVA didn't help organize and pay for the anti-protest gathering in addition to inviting them to town.

[dfwgator]

@Hoodat

Cruz was right, quite simply.  Someone got murdered, he called it out.  People can cry all they want about the right to assemble and protest, but it's a Constitutional right, no matter how much we might dislike some of those taking advantage of that right.  "They're to blame someone rammed them with a car and committed murder" just doesn't wash.  Not if we're being intellectually honest and thinking with our brains instead of our emotions.

I hope Trump will take a lesson from Cruz, and name it and condemn it.

You mean like condemning Islam for the actions of one "Lone Wolf"?

[sneakypete]

@Hoodat

Cruz was right, quite simply.  Someone got murdered, he called it out.  People can cry all they want about the right to assemble and protest, but it's a Constitutional right, no matter how much we might dislike some of those taking advantage of that right.  "They're to blame someone rammed them with a car and committed murder" just doesn't wash.  Not if we're being intellectually honest and thinking with our brains instead of our emotions.

I hope Trump will take a lesson from Cruz, and name it and condemn it.

@CatherineofAragon

I may be wrong and missed it because I am doing something else between postings,but I didn't see any posts that justified that murder in ANY respect. IF there was one and I missed it,PLEASE point it out to me and I will apologize.

If not,WTF are you talking about?

[SunkenCiv]

Sessions: Federal Investigation of Charlottesville Underway | Ian Mason | 13 Aug 2017 | Associated Press

[snip] What eyewitnesses described as rolling fist fights and battles with thrown projectiles broke out almost immediately after the hundreds of "Alt Right" activists and other white nationalist rallygoers made their way to the statue of Robert E. Lee, whose potential removal was the event's primary ostensible concern. [/snip]

[Silver Pines]

@CatherineofAragon

I may be wrong and missed it because I am doing something else between postings,but I didn't see any posts that justified that murder in ANY respect. IF there was one and I missed it,PLEASE point it out to me and I will apologize.

If not,WTF are you talking about?

@sneakypete

Sure.  Read back up the thread to your "yeah, but who started it" post. 

[sneakypete]

Sessions: Federal Investigation of Charlottesville Underway | Ian Mason | 13 Aug 2017 | Associated Press

[snip] What eyewitnesses described as rolling fist fights and battles with thrown projectiles broke out almost immediately after the hundreds of "Alt Right" activists and other white nationalist rallygoers made their way to the statue of Robert E. Lee, whose potential removal was the event's primary ostensible concern. [/snip]

@SunkenCiv

Yeah,that's the sort of reporting I was seeing and hearing while it was going on.

[Silver Pines]

You mean like condemning Islam for the actions of one "Lone Wolf"?

@dfwgator

No, I'm talking about this particular situation. 

[dfwgator]

@dfwgator

No, I'm talking about this particular situation.

So. Condemn the person who did the act...He alone is responsible, no one else.

[TomSea]

Heck, from what I read, maybe the counter-protesters were caving in the back window of his car.  We do have to find out more. It's very tragic that someone died, otherwise, I doubt if this whole story would have such gravity.

[kevindavis007]

At this point I'm not so sure the nazi sympathizers wouldn't cheer a muslim killing leftists.

Nazi's and Muslims were allies during WWII.

[Mom MD]

Nazi's and Muslims were allies during WWII.

And I have a feeling they will be again

[Wingnut]

Well, if it had contained barbiturates, it would have been called "7 Down".

Every now and then...every now and then!   

[Hoodat]

Heck, from what I read, maybe the counter-protesters were caving in the back window of his car.  We do have to find out more. It's very tragic that someone died, otherwise, I doubt if this whole story would have such gravity.

Correctamundo!

[dfwgator]

And I have a feeling they will be again

They never stopped being allies.  They both hate the Joooooooos.

[HonestJohn]

You mean like condemning Islam for the actions of one "Lone Wolf"?

I don't see anyone simply condemning neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists for the actions of 'one lone wolf'.

I see people condemning neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists because they are neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists.  A worldview that has been proven to be evil.  And a worldview that killed off over 400,000 Americans.

[Hoodat]

I see people condemning neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists because they are neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists.  A worldview that has been proven to be evil.  And a worldview that killed off over 400,000 Americans.

Ditto.  I condemn them for their racism.  I condemn the driver for using his vehicle to kill someone.  If this had not happened, I would still be condemning the Klan and other white supremacists for being racist cowards, and nazis, BLMers, and Antifaks for being socialist racist cowards.

[aligncare]

The instant in time where Cruz loses the GOP nomination to Trump.

http://youtu.be/qz2636C7Rr4?t=60

He oozed political correctness in that clip. I was disappointed to hear him take that stance.

[HonestJohn]

Ditto.  I condemn them for their racism.  I condemn the driver for using his vehicle to kill someone.  If this had not happened, I would still be condemning the Klan and other white supremacists for being racist cowards, and nazis, BLMers, and Antifaks for being socialist racist cowards.

The post I responded to seemed to allude that the poster had no issues with the neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists... and thought the only reason people were condemning them was for the actions of the car driver.

@dfwgator

[dfwgator]

I don't see anyone simply condemning neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists for the actions of 'one lone wolf'.

I see people condemning neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists because they are neo-Nazis, Klan, and White Supremacists.  A worldview that has been proven to be evil.  And a worldview that killed off over 400,000 Americans.

And Communists are responsible for the deaths of over 100 million.