Author Topic: Scientists consider the possibility of adding aerosols or modifying clouds to slow global warming  (Read 1421 times)

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rangerrebew

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Scientists consider the possibility of adding aerosols or modifying clouds to slow global warming
July 21, 2017 by Bob Yirka report

(Phys.org)—Scientists looking at alternative approaches to staving off global warming have published two Perspective pieces in the journal Science. In the first, Ulrike Niemeier and Simone Tilmes with the Max Planck Institute and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in the U.S., respectively, address the possibility of injecting aerosols into the atmosphere as a means to limit heat passing through. In the second, Niemeier has paired up with Blaž Gasparini with the Institute of Atmospheric and Climate Science in Switzerland to look at the issues involved with attempting to disperse clouds that prevent heat in the atmosphere from escaping back into space. In an editorial in the same journal issue, Janos Pasztor, Cynthia Scharf and Kai-Uwe Schmidt consider how we might govern geoengineering attempts to prevent a reckless few from possibly destroying the planet they are trying to save.


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-07-scientists-possibility-adding-aerosols-clouds.html#jCp

Offline Joe Wooten

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There will be unintended consequences of this if they ever try it, possibly really nasty ones.

Oceander

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So they'll introduce globe-spanning pollution for the sake of, what, saving the climate?

Offline The_Reader_David

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There will be unintended consequences of this if they ever try it, possibly really nasty ones.

So they'll introduce globe-spanning pollution for the sake of, what, saving the climate?


At least one serious proposal in this regard are neither globe-spanning nor likely to lead to any unintended consequences (esp. since it is easily reversible):  the aerosols would be introduced by adding sulfur content to the jet-fuel of planes flying over and near the Arctic (as many do on great circle routes).  It would have a cooling effect like volcanic eruptions, could be stopped whenever needed, would be concentrated in the one place that actually has been warming significantly and with possible dire consequences, and works whether the cause of the warming in the Arctic is greenhouse gasses (not likely since that mechanism doesn't produce the observed asymmetry between Arctic and Antarctic), soot from coal burning in China, Russia and India (my favorite theory since it does explain the asymmetry) some natural cause, or a combination of all three.
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline Mom MD

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Scientists consider the possibility of adding aerosols or modifying clouds to slow global warming
July 21, 2017 by Bob Yirka report

(Phys.org)—Scientists looking at alternative approaches to staving off global warming have published two Perspective pieces in the journal Science. In the first, Ulrike Niemeier and Simone Tilmes with the Max Planck Institute and the National Center for Atmospheric Research in the U.S., respectively, address the possibility of injecting aerosols into the atmosphere as a means to limit heat passing through. In the second, Niemeier has paired up with Blaž Gasparini with the Institute of Atmospheric and Climate Science in Switzerland to look at the issues involved with attempting to disperse clouds that prevent heat in the atmosphere from escaping back into space. In an editorial in the same journal issue, Janos Pasztor, Cynthia Scharf and Kai-Uwe Schmidt consider how we might govern geoengineering attempts to prevent a reckless few from possibly destroying the planet they are trying to save.


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-07-scientists-possibility-adding-aerosols-clouds.html#jCp

What could possibly go wrong? **nononono*
God is still in control

Oceander

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At least one serious proposal in this regard are neither globe-spanning nor likely to lead to any unintended consequences (esp. since it is easily reversible):  the aerosols would be introduced by adding sulfur content to the jet-fuel of planes flying over and near the Arctic (as many do on great circle routes).  It would have a cooling effect like volcanic eruptions, could be stopped whenever needed, would be concentrated in the one place that actually has been warming significantly and with possible dire consequences, and works whether the cause of the warming in the Arctic is greenhouse gasses (not likely since that mechanism doesn't produce the observed asymmetry between Arctic and Antarctic), soot from coal burning in China, Russia and India (my favorite theory since it does explain the asymmetry) some natural cause, or a combination of all three.

And, in quantities sufficient to have a measurable effect, this will not induce substantial quantities of sulfuric acid pollution?

Offline Smokin Joe

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What could possibly go wrong? **nononono*
Go figure, get the house paid off and some dinks are trying to start another ice age....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline DB

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The lawyers will nip this in the bud...

The first major property loss will be followed by a jury awarding huge damages.

Offline DB

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And the grant money keeps on flowing... Never mind if the premise is true...

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Next time I pass gas I'll explain to my wife that I'm saving the planet.

Offline Smokin Joe

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At least one serious proposal in this regard are neither globe-spanning nor likely to lead to any unintended consequences (esp. since it is easily reversible):  the aerosols would be introduced by adding sulfur content to the jet-fuel of planes flying over and near the Arctic (as many do on great circle routes).  It would have a cooling effect like volcanic eruptions, could be stopped whenever needed, would be concentrated in the one place that actually has been warming significantly and with possible dire consequences, and works whether the cause of the warming in the Arctic is greenhouse gasses (not likely since that mechanism doesn't produce the observed asymmetry between Arctic and Antarctic), soot from coal burning in China, Russia and India (my favorite theory since it does explain the asymmetry) some natural cause, or a combination of all three.
Funny thing about air. It doesn't just sit there, it moves around. Volcanic eruptions gave us the year without a summer, and other events which, while short lived, had dire consequences for humans.
The planet has done just fine regulating its temperature without us mucking about with it. We aren't even certain of the source of warming at one pole, and tinkering with the weather in what will amount to an entire hemisphere might not be the best idea. If you remove all the adjustments from the last 18 years of data which I strongly suspect were done, not for accuracy, but to keep the meme alive, the curve comes out flat.
Weather data gathering stations have been surrounded by development, and the urban heat island effect may well be giving us readings which are too high.
At any event, even if all our recorded data are taken at face value, we do not have a significant segment to predict with. There is no horrifying trend toward planetary immolation, we have the technology to adapt to the temperature changes without tampering with the planet, so let's leave it the heck alone and see what it will do on its own.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Joe Wooten

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Funny thing about air. It doesn't just sit there, it moves around. Volcanic eruptions gave us the year without a summer, and other events which, while short lived, had dire consequences for humans.
The planet has done just fine regulating its temperature without us mucking about with it. We aren't even certain of the source of warming at one pole, and tinkering with the weather in what will amount to an entire hemisphere might not be the best idea. If you remove all the adjustments from the last 18 years of data which I strongly suspect were done, not for accuracy, but to keep the meme alive, the curve comes out flat.
Weather data gathering stations have been surrounded by development, and the urban heat island effect may well be giving us readings which are too high.
At any event, even if all our recorded data are taken at face value, we do not have a significant segment to predict with. There is no horrifying trend toward planetary immolation, we have the technology to adapt to the temperature changes without tampering with the planet, so let's leave it the heck alone and see what it will do on its own.

The trouble with the "warming" at the north pole is that the "increase" is within the margin of error of the temperature measurements.

Offline rodamala

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Fun fact:  Now that diesel fuel sold is mandated to be ultra-low sulphur, not only has my high pressure fuel pump been wrecked on my '91 Jetta, but farmers are having to add sulphur to the mix of micronutrients they fertilize crops with.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 05:55:36 pm by rodamala »

Offline Suppressed

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If you remove all the adjustments from the last 18 years of data which I strongly suspect were done, not for accuracy, but to keep the meme alive, the curve comes out flat.
@Smokin Joe

If you have any sort of timeline with an element of random variation, it will fluctuate up and down about that centerline, in general.  If we're seeing just a "flat" portion, not a decreasing portion, then perhaps we have a fluctuation about a line that has a positive slope.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

If you have any sort of timeline with an element of random variation, it will fluctuate up and down about that centerline, in general.  If we're seeing just a "flat" portion, not a decreasing portion, then perhaps we have a fluctuation about a line that has a positive slope.
In 1978, when I graduated with my BS in Geology, all the hype was about the coming ice age.
By 1998, the howling lament was that we were all going to burn up on a desert planet with much higher sea levels due to (anthropogenic) global warming.
Then we have 18 years of data fluctuation around a flat line.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline ABX

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Wait, didn't we ban aerosols due to damage to the ozone layer?

Circa 1975: http://www.nytimes.com/1975/06/22/archives/aerosol-feels-the-ozone-effect.html

Offline Smokin Joe

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Wait, didn't we ban aerosols due to damage to the ozone layer?

Circa 1975: http://www.nytimes.com/1975/06/22/archives/aerosol-feels-the-ozone-effect.html
Just the ones with CFCs.

Now we use isobutane, which burns like regular butane, and is just 3 carbon atoms and six Hydrogen atoms away from methane, which probably makes it a greenhouse gas, too.
Except in real whipped cream, where they use Nitrous Oxide (AKA "laughing gas")...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis