Author Topic: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill  (Read 3383 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,312
Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill


Provision would allow insurers to sell plans that aren’t compliant with Affordable Care Act



By Anna Wilde Mathews  |  July 14, 2017 11:04 p.m. ET


Insurers are ramping up their opposition to a new amendment in the Senate Republican health bill that would allow them to sell plans that don’t meet Affordable Care Act requirements, an effort that could add to the challenges faced by GOP leaders trying to shepherd the legislation.

The provision, backed by Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, would authorize insurers to sell coverage that wouldn’t meet ACA standards on the condition that they also sell at least some plans that did. While this setup could offer healthy people less expensive policies, insurers and actuaries say it would likely prove dysfunctional over time, pushing up rates and reducing offerings for people buying the compliant plans.

In a letter sent Friday night to the Senate Republican and Democratic leadership, the two major associations representing health insurers, which don’t typically send such missives jointly, said the amendment “is simply unworkable in any form and would undermine protections for those with pre-existing medical conditions, increase premiums and lead to widespread terminations of coverage for people currently enrolled in the individual market.”

The fate of the bill is on a knife-edge. Two Republican Senators have already said they oppose it, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R., Ky.) cannot afford to lose any more Republicans to get the 50-vote majority the legislation needs to pass. Vice President Mike Pence would break any tie. No Democrats are expected to support the GOP bill.

The letter from America’s Health Insurance Plans and the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association may alarm moderate Republican senators who have pledged to protect coverage for people with pre-existing medical conditions. But on the other side, the provision’s inclusion has been vital in winning over Sen. Cruz, and it is supported by other conservatives, though some feel it doesn’t go far enough to wall off the healthier market from the sicker consumers’ costs.

In an interview, Sen. Cruz said the provision is essential to his support of the bill. He said his amendment “takes nothing away” and would help millions of people by allowing them to buy lower-cost coverage, including with pretax dollars from health savings accounts, which in turn would boost insurance pools overall.

The noncompliant plans sold under the Cruz amendment could be more limited than today’s ACA coverage, lacking benefits such as maternity care, and could feature higher out-of-pocket costs and potentially annual or lifetime limits on coverage, said  Larry Levitt, a senior vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation.  .  .  .

https://www.wsj.com/articles/insurers-oppose-cruz-amendment-to-republican-health-care-bill-1500087886



So Big Insurance doesn't like it?  Reason #87 why the Cruz Amendment must be included.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2017, 04:13:34 pm »
There may be other aspects, but part of the debate concerns "Essential Health Benefits," part off Obamacare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_health_benefits

Essential health benefits

•Ambulatory patient services. [outpatient care]
•Emergency services.
•Hospitalization. ...
•Maternity and newborn care.
•Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment.
•Prescription drugs.
•Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices.
•Laboratory services.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,679
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 04:14:14 pm »
Could they have just a token few people on their Compliant Plans to be able to offer Non-Compliant Plans to the bulk of their clients?

Offline bilo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,340
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 04:21:19 pm »
In an interview, Sen. Cruz said the provision is essential to his support of the bill. He said his amendment “takes nothing away” and would help millions of people by allowing them to buy lower-cost coverage, including with pretax dollars from health savings accounts, which in turn would boost insurance pools overall.

Sen Cruz is right. The insurance companies don't want competition. They want a govt controlled system where they are guaranteed profits.

If this amendment is dropped I expect conservatives to vote no to any bill.

It's looking more and more like you were right @corbe .
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 04:59:40 pm by bilo »
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 04:27:45 pm »
A key question will be whether the subsidies/tax credits would be available only to the ACA-compliant plans (those that cover the EHB) or would also be available to folks who choose non-compliant products.   Compliant plans could, I'd think, easily compete in a subsidized environment, kinda like electric cars do.   Unsubsidized,  it's likely that the market for certain "essential" health benefits could dry up, increasing costs for folks who choose those benefits.   

There'd be disruption for sure, but in the end there will be lower costs for insurance.   Whether that translates to healthier people is the big concern,  but as so many point out,  good health is cultural.   People need to educate themselves about their health and adopt good health practices.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,756
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2017, 04:29:22 pm »
They decided to make their beds with the Dems.

That is their problem.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2017, 04:35:15 pm »
They decided to make their beds with the Dems.

That is their problem.

If that's all you care about.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,756
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2017, 04:43:36 pm »
If that's all you care about.
A company that decides to compromise its fundamental capitalistic principles to make a buck off the liberal idiocy law deserves to flounder when the idiocy gets uprooted.

Here's another Bible verse for you to ponder on this:

Matthew 7:24-27

24 “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Emjay

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,687
  • Gender: Female
  • Womp, womp
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2017, 05:15:59 pm »
In an interview, Sen. Cruz said the provision is essential to his support of the bill. He said his amendment “takes nothing away” and would help millions of people by allowing them to buy lower-cost coverage, including with pretax dollars from health savings accounts, which in turn would boost insurance pools overall.

Sen Cruz is right. The insurance companies don't want competition. They want a govt controlled system where they are guaranteed profits.

If this amendment is dropped I expect conservatives to vote no to any bill.

It's looking more and more like you were right @corbe .

This is obviously self=serving by some insurance companies but I don't get it.

Did they fare well under Obamacare?  Nobody else did.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Online Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37,312
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2017, 05:34:18 pm »
People need to educate themselves about their health and adopt good health practices.   

In countries with socialized medicine, people do exactly that.  They take steps to remain healthy because they already know what the government provides if they get sick.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,756
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2017, 05:37:27 pm »
This is obviously self=serving by some insurance companies but I don't get it.

Did they fare well under Obamacare?  Nobody else did.
  Take a look at who got exemptions from it.  Start with politicians.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 05:37:55 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

HonestJohn

  • Guest
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2017, 07:43:21 pm »
In an interview, Sen. Cruz said the provision is essential to his support of the bill. He said his amendment “takes nothing away” and would help millions of people by allowing them to buy lower-cost coverage, including with pretax dollars from health savings accounts, which in turn would boost insurance pools overall.

Sen Cruz is right. The insurance companies don't want competition. They want a govt controlled system where they are guaranteed profits.

If this amendment is dropped I expect conservatives to vote no to any bill.

It's looking more and more like you were right @corbe .

Wow, you really sounded like Hugo Chavez there.  How *DARE* businesses seek to turn a profit!  They should suffer losses for the good of the Venezuelan (oops, I mean American) people!

Viva la revolucion, comrade.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2017, 07:44:17 pm »
Wow, you really sounded like Hugo Chavez there.  How *DARE* businesses seek to turn a profit!  They should suffer losses for the good of the Venezuelan (oops, I mean American) people!

Viva la revolucion, comrade.

No, actually, you are.

HonestJohn

  • Guest
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2017, 07:46:42 pm »
No, actually, you are.

"I know you are, but what am I."

Great debate there, buddy.

Oceander

  • Guest
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2017, 07:48:06 pm »
"I know you are, but what am I."

Great debate there, buddy.


If you'd posted something that made sense, you might have deserved better.  You didn't, on either count.

HonestJohn

  • Guest
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2017, 07:50:58 pm »
If you'd posted something that made sense, you might have deserved better.  You didn't, on either count.

Going personal insread of explaining how you came to your post.

I expect that from you, guy.

Online Drago

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 358
  • "Life is a Journey"
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2017, 09:02:41 pm »
The Cruz amend. is one small step back towards a free market, and allows the wife & I to buy the policy we want (high deductable zero coverage for anything under the deductable amount).  Although I am worried that since Obamacare would continue w/subsidies that the pool for the HSA type plans would be smaller than before Obamacare thus higher premiums.  Not sure why @HonestJohn is promoting Marxism via continuing with Obamacare mandates...may be a misunderstanding with a previous poster.

Offline goodwithagun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,543
  • Gender: Female
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2017, 09:13:44 pm »
There may be other aspects, but part of the debate concerns "Essential Health Benefits," part off Obamacare.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_health_benefits

Essential health benefits

•Ambulatory patient services. [outpatient care]
•Emergency services.
•Hospitalization. ...
•Maternity and newborn care.
•Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment.
•Prescription drugs.
•Rehabilitative and habilitative services and devices.
•Laboratory services.

Treatment for substance abuse is NOT an essential benefit.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,646
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2017, 09:53:07 pm »
In an interview, Sen. Cruz said the provision is essential to his support of the bill. He said his amendment “takes nothing away” and would help millions of people by allowing them to buy lower-cost coverage, including with pretax dollars from health savings accounts, which in turn would boost insurance pools overall.

Sen Cruz is right. The insurance companies don't want competition. They want a govt controlled system where they are guaranteed profits.

If this amendment is dropped I expect conservatives to vote no to any bill.

It's looking more and more like you were right @corbe .

   It breaks my heart (and wallet) that they can't repeal and/or replace this CF as they have promised for almost 8 years @bilo 
   Reading the brilliant commentary on TBR has unfortunately made my heart calloused to the games these politicians play on us, including Sen. Cruz. 

   @Emjay

   The Insurance Lobby sunk the House Version just as they will the Senate version of this crapfest and someone's screaming for 'another' chance.



No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,112
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2017, 10:09:59 pm »
Could they have just a token few people on their Compliant Plans to be able to offer Non-Compliant Plans to the bulk of their clients?
Intheory, and I think that is the idea. I can't think of anyone, even in the middle of an oil boom when companies were starved for good help, who offered cadillac plans, gratis, until Obamacare came along. There are coverages there that most people would avoid in order to get a much lower premium, because either they know they won't need them or the likelihood is very low. Drug rehab? There is a choice in there that makes that an avoidable expense. Alcohol rehab? Ditto. HIV/AIDS drugs? yep, another choice.

People gamble that they won't need the services and coverage, stacking the odds in their favor, and get lower premiums in the process, or knowing they might have to pay the bill, put money aside just in case (but its still their money).

The way Obamacare has it, people are shelling out top dollar for services they won't need and the insurance companies are raking it in at the insured's expense.

If they offer 'lesser plans', it'll cut their profit margin.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,112
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2017, 10:22:20 pm »
Wow, you really sounded like Hugo Chavez there.  How *DARE* businesses seek to turn a profit!  They should suffer losses for the good of the Venezuelan (oops, I mean American) people!

Viva la revolucion, comrade.
I'm not against a profit.

But if the Government passed a law that you had to buy a new Yugo every year and pay top dollar for it or pay a penalty, you wouldn't think that the Yugo guys making all that money off a compulsory law was a good idea, either.

It isn't hard to see the analogy here.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,646
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2017, 10:34:47 pm »
I'm not against a profit.

But if the Government passed a law that you had to buy a new Yugo every year and pay top dollar for it or pay a penalty, you wouldn't think that the Yugo guys making all that money off a compulsory law was a good idea, either.

It isn't hard to see the analogy here.


   Is that kinda like the FEDS putting all that pressure on City/State/Federal purchasers of automobiles to buy Gov Motors crap, after they sunk umpteen billion in them, something like that?
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2017, 10:39:08 pm »
« Last Edit: July 15, 2017, 10:43:18 pm by truth_seeker »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,112
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2017, 10:51:53 pm »
At present, it sure is with Obamacare.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/gop-health-care-debate-what-are-essential-benefits-n737646
By law, it is. There are several levels of coverage there I would not engage. But then, I know my family's health and habits and they are not required. One of the biggest money drains and sectors with greatest fraud potential is wrapped around addiction treatment and the mental health treatment/counseling industry.

Yes, there are relatively effective people in each industry who do help their clients. But like a construction boom or disaster recovery, the presence of virtually unlimited funds and patients will lead to fraud on a widespread basis, and some of that fraud will be devastating to the people it is perpetrated upon--only now, the average schmuck will get stuck with the tab on a cost plus basis through insurance companies by government decree.

It is a coverage I would opt out of, frankly, because it is based on decisions I can make to avoid the need for the services.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,112
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Insurers Oppose Cruz Amendment to Republican Health-Care Bill
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2017, 10:53:18 pm »

   Is that kinda like the FEDS putting all that pressure on City/State/Federal purchasers of automobiles to buy Gov Motors crap, after they sunk umpteen billion in them, something like that?
Especially 'green' vehicles? Yep. All my GM vehicles are pre-bailout.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis