Trump to pull feds out of K-12 education

[Bigun]

@Bigun

Perhaps, @Sanguine is certainly more eloquent than I.   My point is that good things start with good intentions.  Sure good action is also required but for goodness sake, the President of the United States suggested returning control of Education to the States and Conservatives have a problem with that.    Are people so afraid of taking responsibility for themselves that they think some unaccountable bureaucrat in DC knows better than the people in their town, county or state?

If so we are truly lost and it may be time to start angling for a position with the Party.

I fully understand your point and so does @Sanguine I think!  But simply arguing that having good intentions makes every action good is entirely wrong as well!

[driftdiver]

I fully understand your point and so does @Sanguine I think!  But simply arguing that having good intentions makes every action good is entirely wrong as well!

@Bigun

Who argued for that?  I certainly didn't.

Again, this is a fantastic proposal.   Why not say "HELL YEAH!!!!" and get on board to push it through??   Are people so afraid of even the appearance that Trump might do something good they'd burn their own house down?

[Bigun]

@Bigun

Who argued for that?  I certainly didn't.

Again, this is a fantastic proposal.   Why not say "HELL YEAH!!!!" and get on board to push it through??   Are people so afraid of even the appearance that Trump might do something good they'd burn their own house down?

@driftdiver

And we are FULLY in agreement there!

[RoosGirl]

Wow 'conservatives' are actually arguing for FEDERAL control.

I guess now we know where the eGOP comes from.

@driftdiver

One of the two of us is having a hard time with reading comprehension.  I did not get that idea at all from what @Cripplecreek  wrote.

[INVAR]

@INVAR
So now you're a liar.

Am I?

I replied SPECIFICIALLY TO THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE and quoted it verbatim:

"Good thing Jesus doesn't have the standards of perfection that so many here do."

I quoted the scripture in Matthew 5:48 that debunks your assertion that Jesus has no standards of perfection.

Did He say those words or did He not?  You won't answer that question because you are deflecting to another argument entirely.

Does Jesus have standards of perfection we are to aspire to, or not?  Did Jesus say what He is quoted as saying in Matthew 5:48?

I find it VERY revealing all the hostility towards the concepts of principles and perfection, and that when someone is demanding adherence to principles, they are declared to be heretics pushing perfection, which is always said to be an enemy of the good.  Demanding and striving for perfection is seen as an evil by so many who regard themselves Christians and Conservatives.  I think this is enlightening.

It explains why standards and perverted behaviors are accepted and normalized even among those whom at one time thought them abhorrent.  It explains why men of such low character are lifted up as political saviors and of support and obeisance to them is demanded.

It explains why anyone responding with admonitions of principle and perfection are excoriated as liars, heretics and enemies of the state by those who self-identify as Conservative and Christian.

To wit:

You profess to hold the Truth, in essence to be perfect,  YOU, not the Word of God and not Jesus.  But you seek to judge ALL as to their worthiness and YOU find everyone lacking.

I quoted a scripture to counter your assertion Jesus has no standards of perfection He expects of us.  You ignored that verse and respond with the same kind of vitriol I expect from Homosexuals who insist Jesus approves of Homosexual marriage.

How about these verses:

Titus 3:10 "As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him,"

Okay then.  Let us see if you can apply that verse to your own behavior since you assert I stir up division. 

Have nothing more to do with me.

Let us see if you can actually live by that which you pay lip service to.

Jesus accepted everyone who sought him.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ - Matthew 7:21-23

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46

[Cripplecreek]

@driftdiver

One of the two of us is having a hard time with reading comprehension.  I did not get that idea at all from what @Cripplecreek  wrote.

Lying is pretty common among the new republicans.

[Suppressed]

Exactly.  And any serious modification of the regulations will require a new notice and comment period and opportunity for interested parties to sue to retain the regulations.

And, unlike conservatives, liberals are smart enough to use comment periods to obstruct and fight for their side.

[INVAR]

Lying is pretty common among the new republicans.

Yes.  And they like to accuse others of the same.

[RoosGirl]

Lying is pretty common among the new republicans.

I didn't want to out and out accuse him of lying, nor put words in your mouth if I was misunderstanding what you wrote, but dang I thought that was sure a stretch from what you said to what he said you said.

[MajorClay]

If he actually manages to get this done it will go down as his greatest accomplishment IMHO!

And DeVos can do it!!!!!

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver

One of the two of us is having a hard time with reading comprehension.  I did not get that idea at all from what @Cripplecreek  wrote.

@RoosGirl

So a poster criticizes an effort to bring control of education to the local level and you don't see it as an argument to keep the status quo?

More nevertrump doublespeak

[driftdiver]

Lying is pretty common among the new republicans.

@Cripplecreek

Yes you've shown us that.

[driftdiver]

@Cripplecreek

Yes you've shown us that.

Am I?

I replied SPECIFICIALLY TO THE FOLLOWING SENTENCE and quoted it verbatim:

I quoted the scripture in Matthew 5:48 that debunks your assertion that Jesus has no standards of perfection.

Did He say those words or did He not?  You won't answer that question because you are deflecting to another argument entirely.

Does Jesus have standards of perfection we are to aspire to, or not?  Did Jesus say what He is quoted as saying in Matthew 5:48?

I find it VERY revealing all the hostility towards the concepts of principles and perfection, and that when someone is demanding adherence to principles, they are declared to be heretics pushing perfection, which is always said to be an enemy of the good.  Demanding and striving for perfection is seen as an evil by so many who regard themselves Christians and Conservatives.  I think this is enlightening.

It explains why standards and perverted behaviors are accepted and normalized even among those whom at one time thought them abhorrent.  It explains why men of such low character are lifted up as political saviors and of support and obeisance to them is demanded.

It explains why anyone responding with admonitions of principle and perfection are excoriated as liars, heretics and enemies of the state by those who self-identify as Conservative and Christian.

To wit:

I quoted a scripture to counter your assertion Jesus has no standards of perfection He expects of us.  You ignored that verse and respond with the same kind of vitriol I expect from Homosexuals who insist Jesus approves of Homosexual marriage.

Okay then.  Let us see if you can apply that verse to your own behavior since you assert I stir up division. 

Have nothing more to do with me.

Let us see if you can actually live by that which you pay lip service to.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ - Matthew 7:21-23

"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" Luke 6:46

@INVAR

Yes you are as you've amply demonstrated.   

[RoosGirl]

@RoosGirl

So a poster criticizes an effort to bring control of education to the local level and you don't see it as an argument to keep the status quo?

More nevertrump doublespeak

You are reading words that weren't written.  He acknowledged there is a problem at the local level in his area with excess spending on non-essentials and gave an example.  In no way did I take that to mean (because he didn't mean it) that since there's a problem at the local level that everything should be handled at the Fed level. 

[jmyrlefuller]

I would hope a reputable organization like the Times would know better than to use such a misleading headline. Alas, this is what news has become.

[INVAR]

@INVAR

Yes you are as you've amply demonstrated.   

And yet here you are, demonstrating that you cannot practice what you just preached by citing Titus 3:10 as a rebuke to me in reply #42.

Considering you refused to answer a straight-up question about an unbiblical position you have asserted while declaring me a heretic, I have to laugh at your silly attempt here to make doctrinal declarations.

You have shown us that you can use the scriptures to condemn whom you have declared a divisive heretic, yet you refuse to practice what Titus 3:10 calls for - even after you have posted that scripture to bolster your declaration.

Why do you not do what the scriptures tell you to do if I am regarded as you declare?

[roamer_1]

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ - Matthew 7:21-23

More toward your point, 'You evildoers', and 'workers of iniquity' in the KJV is very specifically those who do not keep Torah... Exactly, 'The Law of Moses'

Yes, there is a standard, and the standard is plain.
And the disciple emulates the Master. And the Master explicitly and necessarily kept Torah.
It is disheartening that so few understand the mechanism of their own salvation.

[Oceander]

Is this the religion thread?

[INVAR]

Is this the religion thread?

It wasn't until Driftdriver decided to make religion the issue in reply #20.

[HonestJohn]

@Bigun
a) To wave a red flag that will cause the media and left to go nuts.
b) Because is many cases you cannot just change regulations even if you have the power.  You have to communicate the changes and announce them in a specific way.
c) Major changes which would impact all 50 states need to be planned, even if they are for the good.  The States may not be ready to take over these areas which would cause a massive failure.  Something he cannot afford.

And by the same token, it keeps his base in paroxysms of fervent devotion through the optics of 'doing something', despite nothing actually being done.

[Cripplecreek]

You are reading words that weren't written.  He acknowledged there is a problem at the local level in his area with excess spending on non-essentials and gave an example.  In no way did I take that to mean (because he didn't mean it) that since there's a problem at the local level that everything should be handled at the Fed level.

I just don't waste my time with the intellectual dishonesty of the Trumpers.

I also pointed to college being a big part of what is wrong with K-12 education and suggested removing the federal funding there.

This is why I'll never be a Trumper. I'm not a lock step drone.

[Bigun]

I just don't waste my time with the intellectual dishonesty of the Trumpers.

I also pointed to college being a big part of what is wrong with K-12 education and suggested removing the federal funding there.

This is why I'll never be a Trumper. I'm not a lock step drone.

You don't  have to be a lock step drone to give credit where it's due.

[RoosGirl]

I just don't waste my time with the intellectual dishonesty of the Trumpers.

I also pointed to college being a big part of what is wrong with K-12 education and suggested removing the federal funding there.

This is why I'll never be a Trumper. I'm not a lock step drone.

I hear ya.  This misrepresentation of what you wrote is, to me, worse than a personal attack.  Someone calls me a dumbass, fine, like I care what they think about me, and anyway sometimes I am a dumbass.  But do not lie about and twist what I have written into something that no one else would ever reasonably believe if they read my words for themselves.

[RoosGirl]

You don't  have to be a lock step drone to give credit where it's due.

I'm sure you have noticed that many many times that is not good enough.

[corbe]

You don't  have to be a lock step drone to give credit where it's due.

    With all due respect @Bigun it is just as @Smokin Joe wrote about earlier, many of us here that are considered 'dye in the wool' #nevertrumpers by his local pom pom squad have given the President Credit, where due, yet they still call us 'haters' and probably under their breath 'Hillary lovers'. 
     I usually don't even bother with their 'broad brush' painting anymore except for the entertainment value.