Author Topic: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers  (Read 23716 times)

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Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #275 on: July 12, 2017, 07:05:16 pm »

You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. - Matthew 10:22

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Matthew 10:22 is not a license to treat everyone with disdain and alienate them.   
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #276 on: July 12, 2017, 07:06:03 pm »
You bring up a great point.

When the Framers wrote section in the 1st Amendment about the establishment of religion...they were doing that to prevent another Church of England situation in the newly founded U.S.A. where the head of the Church was also the head of state and could declare certain religious faith's illegal.

They did not write it to prevent the 10 Commandments from being displayed in a courthouse...or to prevent a Nativity scene from being erected on a court house lawn.

I think the Framers as well as the Founders would be horrified to see how misused the Establishment Clause is today.

The Founders would be annoyed, if not horrified, but they were trying to avoid Churches being in authority, specifically the Church of England.  That's why people came here.  My people came here in 1651 as Baptist missionaries from Wales. 

But conservatives are partly to blame for the anti-religion sentiment of the left.  They see us as mean nannies trying to keep people from having fun.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #277 on: July 12, 2017, 07:07:57 pm »
Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists was to reassure them that government wouldn't interfere with Church matters (like marriage)

Quoting Jefferson is always a good idea.



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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #278 on: July 12, 2017, 07:09:38 pm »
And, if the founders had wanted to separate religion from state, they would have used that word.
I believe the 1st amendment intended to create space between spiritual, religious and churches life, and civil life.

Some Founders were deists, not strict adherents to specific denominations.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #279 on: July 12, 2017, 07:09:54 pm »
The Founders would be annoyed, if not horrified, but they were trying to avoid Churches being in authority, specifically the Church of England.  That's why people came here.  My people came here in 1651 as Baptist missionaries from Wales. 

But conservatives are partly to blame for the anti-religion sentiment of the left.  They see us as mean nannies trying to keep people from having fun.

Thats like blaming the girl for being raped.   
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline goodwithagun

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #280 on: July 12, 2017, 07:11:51 pm »
Thats OK cupcake.  You can see things anyway you want.  I take umbrage at the hate term being thrown - not your personal religious beliefs.

It has recently been pointed out to me that @CatherineofAragon and I posted similar messages to @Emjay within about 24 hours of each other. Not planned, but certainly interesting. She's only here to stir the pot. If you had posted the opposite concept, emjay would have disagreed with that, too. It's best just to ignore the troll.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #281 on: July 12, 2017, 07:12:01 pm »
I agree with you partially.  The idea of an individual human being having value on their own and not just as a part of the clan, tribe, nation, whatever, is a pretty much uniquely Judeo-Christian idea.
I think humanism woukd argue for the same.
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Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #282 on: July 12, 2017, 07:12:06 pm »
Quoting Jefferson is always a good idea.

If you have a friend who thinks its ok to kill babies, is that good enough reason?

Or how about if that 'friend' thinks its ok for the govt to take control of your property to build a shopping mall?

Or maybe that friend thinks its ok to take 92% of your income as taxes?

Are any of those good enough reasons to withdraw?
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #283 on: July 12, 2017, 07:14:59 pm »
It has recently been pointed out to me that @CatherineofAragon and I posted similar messages to @Emjay within about 24 hours of each other. Not planned, but certainly interesting. She's only here to stir the pot. If you had posted the opposite concept, emjay would have disagreed with that, too. It's best just to ignore the troll.

Don't brag about being in alliance with @CatherineofAragon.  She has despised me forever and I'm not sure why.  She told me she had put me on ignore because I 'wasn't worth messing with.'  And then she denied it.

My concepts have not changed.  You just don't like them and you're only answer is to lash out.  You cannot discuss things on a rational level.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #284 on: July 12, 2017, 07:15:48 pm »
If you have a friend who thinks its ok to kill babies, is that good enough reason?

Or how about if that 'friend' thinks its ok for the govt to take control of your property to build a shopping mall?

Or maybe that friend thinks its ok to take 92% of your income as taxes?

Are any of those good enough reasons to withdraw?

That's for you to decide.  I was just quoting Jefferson.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #285 on: July 12, 2017, 07:16:08 pm »
Poor people often had a church sanctioned marriage but lacked any state issued paperwork. On the frontier many never had even a church marriage. They were considered married by simple virtue of having been together for a long time.

And as a point of order, many of those frontier unions were interracial.

Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #286 on: July 12, 2017, 07:16:55 pm »
I think humanism woukd argue for the same.

As I understand humanism the worth lies in the race not in the individual, but I could be wrong.  Also the worth comes from inside not outside in humanism.  There is no objective truth or value other than preservation of the race.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #287 on: July 12, 2017, 07:17:46 pm »
Thats like blaming the girl for being raped.

What?  No.  No, it's not.  I'm just trying to explain how much of the left sees conservatives.  I'm not agreeing with them.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #288 on: July 12, 2017, 07:19:43 pm »
Exactly true.  Keep the State out of the Church for both of their sakes.

And the Church out of the State.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #289 on: July 12, 2017, 07:23:06 pm »
And the Church out of the State.

Yep!
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #290 on: July 12, 2017, 07:24:57 pm »
They are not 'myth based' but they are certainly open to interpretation and the Old Testament is very different from the New.


NO, they are not.

Offline driftdiver

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #291 on: July 12, 2017, 07:25:47 pm »
What?  No.  No, it's not.  I'm just trying to explain how much of the left sees conservatives.  I'm not agreeing with them.

Evil will attack good no matter what good does.   That doesn't mean all conservatives are good or that all liberals are evil.  But evil has taken control of the liberal/democrat agenda and is calling the shots.

Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Offline Mom MD

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #292 on: July 12, 2017, 07:27:38 pm »
Evil will attack good no matter what good does.   That doesn't mean all conservatives are good or that all liberals are evil.  But evil has taken control of the liberal/democrat agenda and is calling the shots.

Unfortunately we are not far from being able to say the same of the conservative agenda
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Offline RoosGirl

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #293 on: July 12, 2017, 07:28:05 pm »
It is implicit in some of the posts here that the posters believe themselves to be superior morally to the ones they criticize.

This is complete nonsense, repeated ad nauseum, by the Trump supporters, who seem to get in a tizzy because some of us are not pragmatic enough for their taste.  They actually hate that other people won't set aside some or all of their ideals so we can "win".  And when they don't get their way they get all pissy and start yammering on using words like self-righteous and superior morals.


Quote

The constitution words it differently, of course, but I don't know why you think separation of Church and State is a liberal idea.

It is a conservative idea.

You incorrectly read what I wrote.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #294 on: July 12, 2017, 07:28:13 pm »
And the Church out of the State.

Sadly I don't think your interpretation of that squares with the majority of the people here.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #295 on: July 12, 2017, 07:28:48 pm »
NO, they are not.

Your post is ambiguous.  To what does "they" refer?
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #296 on: July 12, 2017, 07:30:59 pm »
LOL. That is one of my top Charlie Daniels songs. The other is In America because it is up tempo.

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Fits right into this thread...


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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #297 on: July 12, 2017, 07:33:37 pm »
Don't brag about being in alliance with @CatherineofAragon.  She has despised me forever and I'm not sure why.  She told me she had put me on ignore because I 'wasn't worth messing with.'  And then she denied it.


@Emjay


Watch who you accuse of lying, understand?  Especially when you seem to have problems with the truth yourself.

First of all, you and I had some very friendly conversations for quite a while.  Then you started bucking for the position of forum scold/nanny, doing nothing but going from thread to thread and trying to tell people what they should and shouldn't post.  I had a problem with that, I told you so, and you didn't take it well.  At all.

If I were going to use the ignore button, I would use it for you, even though your posts aren't worth the click.  I don't use that feature, however.  But whether I do or don't isn't a damn bit of your business, so stop obsessing about it.  And for God's sake spare the rest of us your endless, miserable poor-me victim moaning.

Yeah, I know.  Too much to ask.  Three days from now you'll still be crying about our exchange here.

Go put a ribbon on your dog or something.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #298 on: July 12, 2017, 07:37:29 pm »
It is not about Bible thumpers who thrive on hate and have no inkling of what Jesus Christ tried to bring to the world.

One whose ignorance of Biblical matters, having already been determined, really should not assume to know what Jesus Christ DID bring into this world.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: The Foolishness of Never Trumpers
« Reply #299 on: July 12, 2017, 07:39:52 pm »
I would also argue that those who are not "Bible thumpers"  - those who do not read and study the Bible - are the ones that have no inkling what Jesus Christ brought into the world - He did not try and fail.

Exactly right - GMTA! LOL!