Author Topic: Chiropractic treatment, a $15-billion industry, has its roots in a ghost story  (Read 1688 times)

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Offline EC

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The American Chiropractic Assn. estimates that the nation’s roughly 77,000 chiropractors treat more than 35 million Americans every year.

I suspect most if not all those patients have no idea that the $15-billion chiropractic industry owes its existence to a ghost.

Daniel David Palmer, the “father” of chiropractic who performed the first chiropractic adjustment in 1895, was an avid spiritualist. He maintained that the notion and basic principles of chiropractic treatment were passed along to him during a seance by a long-dead doctor.

"The knowledge and philosophy given me by Dr. Jim Atkinson, an intelligent spiritual being ... appealed to my reason,” Palmer wrote in his memoir “The Chiropractor,” which was published in 1914 after his death in Los Angeles. Atkinson had died 50 years prior to Palmer’s epiphany.

Before learning of spinal adjustments from a supernatural entity, Palmer spent nine years as a practitioner of what was known as “magnetic healing,” in which he would diagnose and cure ailments by manipulating a magnetic field surrounding the patient’s body.

I bring all this up because I saw a chiropractor the other day — my first visit as a patient after having written a number of columns questioning the qualification of chiropractors to treat diabetes, which is a growing trend in the industry.

More: http://www.latimes.com/business/lazarus/la-fi-lazarus-chiropractic-quackery-20170630-story.html
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I bring all this up because I saw a chiropractor the other day — my first visit as a patient after having written a number of columns questioning the qualification of chiropractors to treat diabetes, which is a growing trend in the industry.


In the first place: I don't care. IMHO, there is not anyone in the health care industry that has provided me with more direct relief, more precise fixing of problems, than chiropractors. Nearly everyone who does hard physical labor will know exactly what I mean. Everyone that works goes to bone-crushers, and those that don't are really missing out.

I know a guy that rides a cubicle for a living. He has had persistent lower back pain for years - Almost a decade. Most of that time, as he suffered more and more, he has been in the care of physicians, and of course medicating.
Since the distribution of opiates has tightened up, and in mortal fear of his next step, a recommended surgery, his fierce determination that all chiros are quacks was finally overcome, as he flailed about looking for another, any other solution.

He FINALLY listened to what everyone in our mutual social group had been telling him.

His first adjustment gave him so much immediate relief that he was instantly a believer. He went back about every three days for a month or so - His back and hips were so out-of-whack that it took a bit of work to to get the adjustments to stick, and new positioning to be retained... He also began walking regularly (on the chiros advice), to strengthen his lower back and offset the maladies presented by what was largely a sedentary lifestyle, continually sitting.

The second month, he went about once a week, and the third month he went twice... And thereafter, only when pain returns, which is far less.

It took ONCE to provide the relief the doctors could not give him in 10 years, and but three months to correct the damage of a couple decades.

And to these particular points:

Quote
From the article:

First: Why do chiropractors get to call themselves doctors? They’re clearly not doctors, lacking both the extensive training and prescription-writing ability of a medical doctor. Yet to a lay person, it may be hard to distinguish between the two professions when they share a common (and highly prestigious) title.

This is a false statement. My brother is a chiropractor, and went through years of medical training, and rigorous testing and internship. He deserves the title of doctor as much as anyone.

Quote
from the article

Second: While the therapeutic benefits of a spinal adjustment seem undeniable — you do come away from a session feeling refreshed — why does what is basically physical therapy have to be wrapped up in so much pseudoscience and possible quackery?


I will grant you that chiros can tend toward odd and even unfounded remedies, secondary to their main profession, and I would be careful with some of it. But, nearly thirty years past, when I was feeling ill, my chiro at the time suggested a 'green drink' fast to purge toxins and restore vitality. for sixty days I ate nothing but the juice from dark-leaved raw vegetables, with other veggies and some fruits added in.

It really didn't work that well for me until, against his advise, I added some meat back into my diet. Then it worked a charm. And everyone knows the value of 'juicing' nowadays, and an entire industry has proven it's popular health effects. So much for what was, at the time, 'quackery'.

Quote
From the article:

Modern chiropractors focus primarily on the spinal column, seeking “misalignments” that might affect joints, muscles, nerves and organs. The basic idea is to restore a sense of balance to the body and help it heal naturally


This is again, false. Chiros DO focus on the spine, because anything having to do with carriage begins at the spine. But a good chiro will certainly venture well away from the spine as well - Hips, knees, ankles, elbows, wrists, fingers and toes. A good exam will involve the whole body.

To conclude, yes there are chiropractors that consider you a 'milk cow' - an epithet often used in conversation and warning among those who frequent bone crushers... And yes, they can go down unproven trails and promote 'quackery'... But so do doctors. Which is the quackery in the story listed above? The chiro, who fixed a long term malady and relieved a decade long bout of suffering, or the medical doctors who treated the symptoms for years and years, medicated the pain, and were recommending expensive back surgery when they should have been recommending a chiropractor?
 

Offline EC

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Yep.  :beer:

We call them osteopaths over here - but same. They work. The one I see when I need to is a bit of a fan of electroacupuncture as well - which shocked the hell out of me by actually working!
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Yep.  :beer:

We call them osteopaths over here - but same. They work. The one I see when I need to is a bit of a fan of electroacupuncture as well - which shocked the hell out of me by actually working!

Acupuncture is another very effective tool. My business partner of many years required acupuncture with his particular back issues. He'd be folded up like a taco, and I'd take him down to see 'the gook chick' down in Bigfork. I'd have to pack him in the door, and then into the exam room, whereupon i'd leave for 20 minutes, and come back to get him, when he came, nearly skipping, out the front door.

I don't know about 'electro-acupuncture'... But if it uses the principles of traditional acupuncture, I certainly can believe it works.

 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 06:51:46 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline ABX

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Chiropractic reminds me of Yoga. Nothing wrong with a good stretch and a good massage, and it can help if done right, especially on a regular basis. Unfortunately, it crosses the line far too often to pseudoscience woo, with claims of curing everything but no real basis in it.

The Chiropractors in our area are the biggest pushers of junk medicine, many selling essential oils for cure-all, chryo-therapy, and whatever MLM pill is popular at the time. I also find them to be the least trustworthy people I've ever met second to politicians.

I really don't care, to each his own regarding most of this. What pisses me off though is when I see the extreme ones 'cracking baby's backs or promising desperate people magic cures.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 06:57:19 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline EC

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Exactly the same principles. Same charts even. It just adds a small pulsed current through the needles, which makes the muscles immediately around the needles twitch. Tickles a bit.
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Offline Gefn

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@roamer_1 and @EC

My mom was told to go to an accupuncture person because of pain.


I ve been in a lot of back pain lately from loosing weight and mild scoliosis

My doctor has recommended a pain doc but maybe I'm better off with the needles guy too.

You. Both claim it helped and you both are wise, so. That's good enough endorsement. For me. 
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Offline ABX

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@roamer_1 and @EC

My mom was told to go to an accupuncture person because of pain.


I ve been in a lot of back pain lately from loosing weight and mild scoliosis

My doctor has recommended a pain doc but maybe I'm better off with the needles guy too.

You. Both claim it helped and you both are wise, so. That's good enough endorsement. For me.

I tried it once with a hurt elbow. Initially you are like 'what the hell' as it feels like little lightening bolts of needles, then you kind of numb down. It stays that way for a while. I think it worked for about a week.

I found it very similar to getting a tattoo. I think it just overwhelms the nerves so much, you pain receptors slow down or shut off after a while in the general area.

No magic chi or chakara or anything like that, just switching the circuit breaker on your nerves when they get overloaded.

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[...] pushers of junk medicine, many selling essential oils for cure-all, chryo-therapy, and whatever MLM pill is popular at the time. I also find them to be the least trustworthy people I've ever met second to politicians.


I am also very fond of essential oils and home remedies... VERY effective. Part of why I find mandated 'health care' so offensive is that I consider western medicine/pharma to be quackery. Essential oils and foraged medicines are far more effective.

YMMV.

Offline Gefn

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I tried it once with a hurt elbow. Initially you are like 'what the hell' as it feels like little lightening bolts of needles, then you kind of numb down. It stays that way for a while. I think it worked for about a week.

I found it very similar to getting a tattoo. I think it just overwhelms the nerves so much, you pain receptors slow down or shut off after a while in the general area.

No magic chi or chakara or anything like that, just switching the circuit breaker on your nerves when they get overloaded.

I'll try anything, back pain stinks. I'm watching my language it's another word I can't say which is unladylike.

Thank you.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 07:20:19 pm by Freya »
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I ve been in a lot of back pain lately from loosing weight and mild scoliosis


@Freya
Definitely try both chiro and acupuncture. one or the other, and maybe both, will likely give you relief.

But don't forget physical activity. For me at least, if I can walk, I will walk it off. Continual long term (say, over two sustained miles every other day) walking, long enough to provide aerobic workout and get the blood and lymphatic moving will do more good than anything.

Offline EC

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@roamer_1 and @EC

My mom was told to go to an accupuncture person because of pain.


I ve been in a lot of back pain lately from loosing weight and mild scoliosis

My doctor has recommended a pain doc but maybe I'm better off with the needles guy too.

You. Both claim it helped and you both are wise, so. That's good enough endorsement. For me.

It sounds like in your case it will give you significant relief for a time. How much time depends on how much of the pain is from scoliosis and how much is from your entire back being out of whack because you've lost weight and your center has shifted.

It doesn't replace stretching and exercise, so don't go thinking that, but it will let you stretch and get your muscles used to the new weight distribution without them clenching up every few seconds in anticipation of things hurting.
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Offline Gefn

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@Freya
Definitely try both chiro and acupuncture. one or the other, and maybe both, will likely give you relief.

But don't forget physical activity. For me at least, if I can walk, I will walk it off. Continual long term (say, over two sustained miles every other day) walking, long enough to provide aerobic workout and get the blood and lymphatic moving will do more good than anything.

Maybe that's the problem. The last two weeks I've been really depressed over dad I'm not eating or sleeping or doing much other than crying. Just staying in bed and crying.
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Offline endicom

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Yep.  :beer:

We call them osteopaths over here - but same. They work. The one I see when I need to is a bit of a fan of electroacupuncture as well - which shocked the hell out of me by actually working!


'Osteopath' here would refer to an osteopathic doctor which is a medical doctor with a twist. Or without the twist, nowadays.

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Maybe that's the problem. The last two weeks I've been really depressed over dad I'm not eating or sleeping or doing much other than crying. Just staying in bed and crying.

It's getting to be time to suck it up and get on... I doubt your daddy would want you to be this way.

I don't know the man, but I would want my daughters to be happy. Grief is only a good thing for so long. JMO.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 08:34:21 pm by roamer_1 »

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'Osteopath' here would refer to an osteopathic doctor which is a medical doctor with a twist. Or without the twist, nowadays.

Funny that. Insurance will pay an osteopath 200 bucks to crack my back, as much and as often as he thinks  is necessary, but they won;t pay my chiro 30 bucks once or twice a month for the same exact service.  :shrug:

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I'll swear by my chiropractor.

In the early '90s I was moving a piece of equipment from one shale shaker to another on an oil rig. I slipped and fell, with the piece of equipment (about 80 lbs) on top of me on the 12" flow line (steel pipe, nearly horizontal), landed on my back, and messed myself up. Nothing broken, just out of place.
I needed the money, so I kept working for another week, only I could not sit without it feeling like my calf was on fire within fifteen seconds of sitting down. So I stood. I put the microscope up on a water cooler, drafting board on some pillows on the table, etc. and managed to tough it out another week by either lying down or standing almost the entire time.

Then they had a fire in the pump house on the rig, and the pump stroke counter sensor cables got crisped. I always left some extra in a loop when I rigged up, so all I had to do was shut down the machine, go out and pull the loop through and splice the cables after cutting out the bad section. But I had to do all that reaching over my head while standing on a 4" pipe. That did it. We'd reached test point and I went over to the Company Hand's shack, called the office down in Denver, and said, "Send someone to finish this, I fell and I'm f***ed up. We'll be running a DST, BLM rules, so you have 36 hours to get someone up here. I'm going to the house." 

I packed my gear in the van and went home.

It took my Chiropractor three months before I could function fully again, but he got everything back in place. One day, early o,n I walked out of his office and felt things pop out of place. I just turned around and went back in and he re-did the adjustment for free. I'll swear by them, though. If I had sought treatment right away, it would likely have taken less than a month, but by the time I got in, everything was in spasm and it was an uphill slog to get it back in place.
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Maybe that's the problem. The last two weeks I've been really depressed over dad I'm not eating or sleeping or doing much other than crying. Just staying in bed and crying.
Dear Freya, your Dad would be touched that you miss him so (What man would not be blessed with a daughter who loved him so? ), but he'd also want you to be happy. He'd want you to remember the good, not to feel pain, but to relive that joy. Thank The Almighty for having been so blessed, and ask him for the strength to do your Daddy proud and rejoice at remembering him, for having such a man to remember, and not feel sad. Ask YHWH to fill that hole in your heart with warmth and bring you peace, as only He can. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Dear Freya, your Dad would be touched that you miss him so (What man would not be blessed with a daughter who loved him so? ), but he'd also want you to be happy. He'd want you to remember the good, not to feel pain, but to relive that joy. Thank The Almighty for having been so blessed, and ask him for the strength to do your Daddy proud and rejoice at remembering him, for having such a man to remember, and not feel sad. Ask YHWH to fill that hole in your heart with warmth and bring you peace, as only He can.

You said that way better than I did... Sorry @Freya  if my reply sounded cold. THIS ^^^

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I'm seeing an orthopedics place for my knee next Monday... would chiropractors do that stuff? Is that something I should look into?

Offline DB

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I'm seeing an orthopedics place for my knee next Monday... would chiropractors do that stuff? Is that something I should look into?

I don't know, would you go to your dentist to "do that stuff?".


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I'm seeing an orthopedics place for my knee next Monday... would chiropractors do that stuff? Is that something I should look into?

Depends upon what that 'stuff' is...

I have had a bum knee most of my life, and my chiro has done a lot to crackle it back into place, and he uses his little pinger tool where the ligaments meet the bone, which seems to tighten it up for a few weeks.

Talk to your chiro and see.

Offline ABX

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It sounds like in your case it will give you significant relief for a time. How much time depends on how much of the pain is from scoliosis and how much is from your entire back being out of whack because you've lost weight and your center has shifted.

It doesn't replace stretching and exercise, so don't go thinking that, but it will let you stretch and get your muscles used to the new weight distribution without them clenching up every few seconds in anticipation of things hurting.

My wife has scoliosis and used to be in constant pain. Her doctors said to never go to a chiropractor, they will do a lot more harm than good. Instead he recommended yoga or just a good stretching exercise practice like Tai Chi. Not for any of the spiritual woo, but because it is a good way to stretch out and stay healthy. She started doing yoga regruarlly and rarely takes pain meds any more.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 09:48:11 pm by AbaraXas »

Offline truth_seeker

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The Chiropractors in our area are the biggest pushers of junk medicine, many selling essential oils for cure-all, chryo-therapy, and whatever MLM pill is popular at the time.

It must be your area. I visited a Chiropractor that was on the Sports Medicine Team, for a community college.

He helped me greatly,  with injuries related to long distance running. He assured me that he knew the limits of his treatment, and would refer me to a physician if indicated.

Later, another member of his group, did refer me to an MD when he determined I needed such treatment.

Of about 4 Chiropractors I saw none ever mentioned pills, potions, etc.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline DB

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Depends upon what that 'stuff' is...

I have had a bum knee most of my life, and my chiro has done a lot to crackle it back into place, and he uses his little pinger tool where the ligaments meet the bone, which seems to tighten it up for a few weeks.

Talk to your chiro and see.

I think he was being sarcastic - but I could be wrong...