Author Topic: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill  (Read 15670 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #150 on: June 30, 2017, 08:01:50 pm »
Well, now that he has charged you and every other "middle class Conservative" with hubris gluttony at the government trough, I think you got your answer - if even only couched within his contempt.

But no surprise given his continuous revelations of what he really is.

He tipped his hand on that.  It worked like a dream to smoke him out.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #151 on: June 30, 2017, 08:03:23 pm »
I think you are attempting to redefine the term.   When I think entitlement, I think of something that you actually did NOT pay into and actually have the option of NOT paying for or participating in.   Social Security and Medicare does NOT qualify under that definition.... since you are given no choice by government re: having to pay for it.

Give me a flippin' break.  I'm not re-defining any terms.   SS and Medicare are entitlement programs as defined for budgetary purposes. Look it up if you don't believe me.   You pay taxes of one sort or another to pay for all government programs.  SS and Medicare are "defined benefit" programs - the benefits you get are defined by law (that's the entitlement part), and it's up to you and everyone else to contribute enough in your taxes to pay for them.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:04:05 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #152 on: June 30, 2017, 08:09:35 pm »
Yes, premiums drop after a 20% rise for a couple of years because the CBO expects older and poor people will be priced out of the market. Deductibles and out-of-pocket costs will go up too. That's not an improvement.

I don't give a crap about polling attitudes about pre-existings. Insurance is a financial instrument, and for it to work for people the numbers have to add up. They do not here. Adding pre-existings to the general pool is not insurance, it wealth distribution. You have to deal with p-e's separately to make insurance work.

Why are the not setting up the structure to make insurance affordable to the masses?
Because this isn't for the masses. It's to pay for a trillion dollars in health care costs for the HIV/AIDS infected, tosses a bone to the poor who were on medicaid by expanding that through subsidies to a larger base, and provides for drug treatment so clinics can skim the hell out of the mess and kick money back where appropriate.
You thought the other redistributions of wealth were something under Obama and the Dems, but this is the centerpiece jewel in a crown of reallocation of wealth they started with a little ACORN and have grown into a massive money redistribution scheme with potential to make them all millions richer on our dime.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #153 on: June 30, 2017, 08:15:00 pm »
I want me some 'middle-class entitlements.'  Would you kindly explain exactly what those are?
That's where you pay in a dollar and get twenty cents back. If there was a change machine like that in your town, someone would have taken a sledgehammer to it long ago.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #154 on: June 30, 2017, 08:15:47 pm »
Give me a flippin' break.  I'm not re-defining any terms.   SS and Medicare are entitlement programs as defined for budgetary purposes. Look it up if you don't believe me.   You pay taxes of one sort or another to pay for all government programs.  SS and Medicare are "defined benefit" programs - the benefits you get are defined by law (that's the entitlement part), and it's up to you and everyone else to contribute enough in your taxes to pay for them.

See how that works, @XenaLee?  That's the textbook definition, not the moral one.  He declines to state whether you earned it, or deserve it if you provided for your own future.  Instead he called you a gluttonous pig for wanting to  keep your own earnings.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:16:59 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #155 on: June 30, 2017, 08:24:05 pm »
See how that works, @XenaLee?  That's the textbook definition, not the moral one.  He declines to state whether you earned it, or deserve it if you provided for your own future.  Instead he called you a gluttonous pig for wanting to  keep your own earnings.

It's called sarcasm.   Some folks here demand their Social Security entitlement,  but resent what the poor receive. Conservatives do not have a monopoly on virtue.   There but for the grace of God go you and I. 

  FICA is a tax, just like the income tax or any other tax.  Social Security has nothing to do with "keeping your own earnings".  The FICA you pay today goes to pay benefits to those currently collecting.  And when you are old enough to collect, it will be other taxpayers paying in to provide your benefit.   Stop displaying your ignorance.   
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:24:40 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #156 on: June 30, 2017, 08:24:13 pm »
Social Security and Medicare, which combined eat up more of the federal budget than any other.  And the ACA, which forces insurance companies to make available insurance for those with pre-existing conditions - a boon to members of the middle class who lose their jobs and their employer-provided health insurance.
I didn't lose my health insurance because I was out of work. The requirements of the ACA took an arrangement between me and my insurer and my health care provider and rendered it no longer sufficient under the law to the point that the insurance company quit offering health policies, period.
So, if I am in the insurance marketplace looking for a new policy, it is because of government I don't still have my old one. Any condition which developed in that time when I was insured has been legislated into a preexisting condition for a new insurer. The Government made that mess. I'm no "free rider", those a$$holes shot my horse.
As for Social Security, I have been paying into that since I was 14. Medicare or the equivalent program, too.
It isn't some freebie. Many of those years I paid the max.

If the Congress, being all "pragmatic" and "realistic" and such, put worthless IOUs in where the money was, I didn't vote to keep that going, because it was bullsh*t. The complacent people who let their votes be bought with those looted funds are part and parcel of the problem.

Still, a deal is a deal. It isn't something for nothing. I paid in, and if it doesn't pay back, the place to start stripping the assets of those who benefited from the fraud perpetrated is in the place those decisions were made: Congress.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #157 on: June 30, 2017, 08:25:06 pm »
See how that works, @XenaLee?  That's the textbook definition, not the moral one.  He declines to state whether you earned it, or deserve it if you provided for your own future.  Instead he called you a gluttonous pig for wanting to  keep your own earnings.

Oh yeah.  I see exactly how it works.  And we know exactly where he's coming from, don't we.

No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #158 on: June 30, 2017, 08:28:24 pm »
Interesting you said "Social Security and Medicare."  Am I given to believe you'd like for SS to be means-tested?  After all, it seems unfair a rich guy deserves SS, right?
Well, darnit, that's because that 'rich guy' paid into social security his whole life, and likely at the highest rate.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #159 on: June 30, 2017, 08:29:12 pm »
That's where you pay in a dollar and get twenty cents back. If there was a change machine like that in your town, someone would have taken a sledgehammer to it long ago.

My question..... why do we let the government azholes get away with it?   When they deemed themselves "exempt" from the ""Affordable Care Act"" because they AND their staff couldn't afford it.... even while ramming it down our (the peons whose sweat and hard work and taxes pay their salaries) throats....

why the hell did Americans let them get away with it???
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #160 on: June 30, 2017, 08:33:00 pm »
It's called sarcasm.   Some folks here demand their Social Security entitlement,  but resent what the poor receive. Conservatives do not have a monopoly on virtue.   There but for the grace of God go you and I. 

  FICA is a tax, just like the income tax or any other tax.  Social Security has nothing to do with "keeping your own earnings".  The FICA you pay today goes to pay benefits to those currently collecting.  And when you are old enough to collect, it will be other taxpayers paying in to provide your benefit.   Stop displaying your ignorance.

When you are willing to give up taking what isn't yours from those who earned it, all the while berating the earners as gluttonous pigs.  If the legal mechanism is as you describe, it was because Congress broke the law when they raided the trust fund.  You are trying to justify the theft.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #161 on: June 30, 2017, 08:38:20 pm »
My question..... why do we let the government azholes get away with it?   When they deemed themselves "exempt" from the ""Affordable Care Act"" because they AND their staff couldn't afford it.... even while ramming it down our (the peons whose sweat and hard work and taxes pay their salaries) throats....

why the hell did Americans let them get away with it???

Because they'll jail you if you refuse?  To the thunderous applause from those (to borrow a phrase) who signal their virtue by taking things from you for the greater good.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #162 on: June 30, 2017, 08:39:16 pm »
My question..... why do we let the government azholes get away with it?   When they deemed themselves "exempt" from the ""Affordable Care Act"" because they AND their staff couldn't afford it.... even while ramming it down our (the peons whose sweat and hard work and taxes pay their salaries) throats....

why the hell did Americans let them get away with it???
What happened to "Equal Protection"?

That whizzes all over a concept that goes back to the Magna Carta, because the law is only for us peons and not for them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline INVAR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #163 on: June 30, 2017, 08:50:05 pm »
What happened to "Equal Protection"?
That is only for homosexuals, the "poor", people of color, Muslims and anti-gun proponents.

The rest of us do not deserve 'equal protection' because we are gluttonous resenters of the poor and obstacles to government assistance and because we didn't build that and we didn't pay into that due to the fact the government constituencies our resident Leftist constantly defends are more virtuous than you or I.

it's not a 'benefit' when you and I pay into something for decades - but as with all government Leftists like our resident - all money belongs to government and when you are allowed to keep or get back any of your own earnings, that is to be considered a 'benefit' that makes you less virtuous than the "poor" that he champions be taken care of with our money.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 08:52:49 pm by INVAR »
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #164 on: June 30, 2017, 08:53:03 pm »
That is only for homosexuals, the "poor", people of color, Muslims and anti-gun proponents.

The rest of us do not deserve 'equal protection' because we are gluttonous resenters of the poor and obstacles to government assistance and because we didn't build that and we didn't pay into that due to the fact the government constituencies our resident Leftist constantly defends are more virtuous than you or I.

Ayup.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #165 on: June 30, 2017, 08:53:11 pm »
That is only for homosexuals, the "poor", people of color, Muslims and anti-gun proponents.

The rest of us do not deserve 'equal protection' because we are gluttonous resenters of the poor and obstacles to government assistance and because we didn't build that and we didn't pay into that due to the fact the government constituencies our resident Leftist constantly defends are more virtuous than you or I.
Yep. Most of what I want from government is to be left alone. It's cheap, doesn't require a lot of funding or manpower, but the one thing they just can't seem to do.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #166 on: June 30, 2017, 08:57:13 pm »
it's not a 'benefit' when you and I pay into something for decades - but as with all government Leftists like our resident - all money belongs to government and when you are allowed to keep or get back any of your own earnings, that is to be considered a 'benefit' that makes you less virtuous than the "poor" that he champions be taken care of with our money.

It goes to a question I ask all lefties:  "Who's money is it, anyway?"
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline XenaLee

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #167 on: June 30, 2017, 09:00:10 pm »
What happened to "Equal Protection"?

That whizzes all over a concept that goes back to the Magna Carta, because the law is only for us peons and not for them.

I'm betting that even the lefties were stunned and amazed that voters/taxpayers didn't rise up against them over that.   It was the proverbial camel's nose in the tent test to see just how far they could go and how hard they could  push We, the People.  I figured we were doomed as a free nation at that point, when the only resistance they got was the organization of the "Tea Party" and a few almost too civil organized protests.  [shaking head]
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #168 on: June 30, 2017, 09:02:52 pm »
I'm betting that even the lefties were stunned and amazed that voters/taxpayers didn't rise up against them over that.   It was the proverbial camel's nose in the tent test to see just how far they could go and how hard they could  push We, the People.  I figured we were doomed as a free nation at that point, when the only resistance they got was the organization of the "Tea Party" and a few almost too civil organized protests.  [shaking head]
When that dam bursts, anything before it will be swept away.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #169 on: July 01, 2017, 02:10:09 am »
You pay taxes of one sort or another to pay for all government programs.
Me, yes I do indeed.

For many, no way do they pay.  And that is what is wrong. Some who feel 'entitled' for something they never paid into and do not deserve to be at the trough.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #170 on: July 01, 2017, 02:25:49 am »
  FICA is a tax, just like the income tax or any other tax.  Social Security has nothing to do with "keeping your own earnings".  The FICA you pay today goes to pay benefits to those currently collecting.  And when you are old enough to collect, it will be other taxpayers paying in to provide your benefit.   Stop displaying your ignorance.
In no manner way shape or form does any FICA taxes you pay today pay benefits to current payees.  That money goes into the general fund via a nominal 'trust' arrangement.  Those trust funds have already been spent as the SS trust fund has nothing in it but a bunch of IOUs from the federal government, which is in debt to the tune of about $20 trillion and going deeper.

It is Ponzi scheme of the highest order, so stop displaying your ignorance.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2011/07/13/what-happened-to-the-2-6-trillion-social-security-trust-fund/#242387d04947
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #171 on: July 01, 2017, 02:27:09 am »
My question..... why do we let the government azholes get away with it?   When they deemed themselves "exempt" from the ""Affordable Care Act"" because they AND their staff couldn't afford it.... even while ramming it down our (the peons whose sweat and hard work and taxes pay their salaries) throats....

why the hell did Americans let them get away with it???
Zero Republicans voted for it, so who do you think you should blame?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline INVAR

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #172 on: July 01, 2017, 02:45:07 am »
In no manner way shape or form does any FICA taxes you pay today pay benefits to current payees.  That money goes into the general fund via a nominal 'trust' arrangement.  Those trust funds have already been spent as the SS trust fund has nothing in it but a bunch of IOUs from the federal government, which is in debt to the tune of about $20 trillion and going deeper.

It is Ponzi scheme of the highest order, so stop displaying your ignorance.

^^^ THIS!

But he will not listen to you or to facts.

He's busy citing political definitions to assuage our acceptance of political ideas he is pushing that are anathema to the existence of liberty itself.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Bigun

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #173 on: July 01, 2017, 03:42:16 am »
When that dam bursts, anything before it will be swept away.

And it's looking very leaky at present!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online mountaineer

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Re: McConnell Could Turn to Democrats to Salvage Healthcare Bill
« Reply #174 on: July 01, 2017, 11:27:01 am »
Clearly, if you disagree with my opinion on Obamacare repeal - whatever it is - you just want people to die!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWhbUUE4ko
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