Author Topic: Trump Will Allow ‘Dreamers’ to Stay in U.S., Reversing Campaign Promise  (Read 3568 times)

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Offline Jazzhead

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Once they are adults and aware that they are here illegally...and do nothing to remedy the situation without special protection of the Liberals...they are just as guilty of breaking U.S. law as the parents who smuggled them here in the first place.

Well, that's why there's a need for special considerations for the "dreamers" -  to prevent a technical violation of the law from becoming an injustice.   It isn't just to punish an innocent child for the sins of his/her parents.

Kudos to President Trump for doing the right thing.   
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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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I wouldn't confuse a DHS statement with political strategy. DHS is going to paint a mild face on its policy...its the easier path for them as an agency. In the short term, this also lets the administration appear humane and reasonable...as someone said above, it was always going to be politically problematic to go after dreamers. That said, if the Dems are entirely unyielding in the fall on issues related to the Wall and immigration...the President has shown himself more than capable of playing hard ball, even on this issue. For now, I think its reasonable for him to play good cop while focusing on the more troubling aspects of illegal immigration.

Okay, then show me any other statement, anywhere, that suggests the political strategy you are outlining actually exists.  Any blurb or comment from anyone in the Administration suggesting that DACA, in particular, will be linked to funding for the wall.  Some hint.  If the President is playing "good cop", then who is the bad cop informing you that this is their actually strategy?

I haven't seen any evidence of it, and honestly, I can't believe they would just play it completely out of thin air, with no warning or hint that it might be coming.

I dunno.  I stick up for Trump more than most here, and I understand political compromise and not always getting everything you want.  But this appears to be giving up something of tremendous value and getting zip in return, and without any hint at all that is likely to change in the future.  If you read Kelly's statement, it seems as if the Administration plans on using DACA as more of a carrot than a stick -- that they'll trade a permanent legalization of Dreamers in exchange for some other things the Administration wants.  And Kelly's explanation on why the left should make that trade is "well, if another Administration comes in that is tougher on immigration than we are, maybe they won't honor DACA."  And though I'm probably the biggest fan of General Kelly on this forum, that is the epitome of an empty threat.

Quote
The key point here is that if he killed the DAPA now, he certainly wouldn't have it available to bargain with when budget negotiations begin in earnest.

He didn't have to kill it.  Just set an expiration date -- the end of the year would be fine.  Or even say something vague like "we'll keep it in place pending what happens elsewhere in terms of immigration reform."  But not even the tiniest hint that they'd actually ever even consider revoking it -- ever.  The "threat", as I said, is only that some future Administration might deport them.

I'm extremely disappointed in this.

@Mesaclone
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 06:15:01 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline ABX

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Well, that's why there's a need for special considerations for the "dreamers" -  to prevent a technical violation of the law from becoming an injustice.   It isn't just to punish an innocent child for the sins of his/her parents.

Kudos to President Trump for doing the right thing.

These aren't 'technical violations of the law' after they are adults. They are more likely than not, using a stolen or fraudulent identity, committing tax fraud, document fraud, and many more crimes. They don't accidentally do this. If you ever studied what it takes for someone here illegally to live here, you would be blown away by the number of crimes they have to commit and how they have to stay on top of it. In other words, these aren't accidental crimes or crimes of circumstance.  They are overt, ongoing, and calculated criminal actions. These crimes have victims to. 30 million people each year have their identity stolen, a large percentage due to illegal aliens.

This is not the right thing. This is amnesty for serious crimes that would land any other citizen in jail for doing the same things.

Offline INVAR

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These aren't 'technical violations of the law' after they are adults. They are more likely than not, using a stolen or fraudulent identity, committing tax fraud, document fraud, and many more crimes. They don't accidentally do this. If you ever studied what it takes for someone here illegally to live here, you would be blown away by the number of crimes they have to commit and how they have to stay on top of it. In other words, these aren't accidental crimes or crimes of circumstance.  They are overt, ongoing, and calculated criminal actions. These crimes have victims to. 30 million people each year have their identity stolen, a large percentage due to illegal aliens.

This is not the right thing. This is amnesty for serious crimes that would land any other citizen in jail for doing the same things.

It's okay. 

Our fate will be the same as Europe's fate, albeit with a slightly different ethnicity and possibly without the beheadings, rapes and stabbings in the name of Allah..... well, maybe the rapes and stabbings given MS-13's proclivities.

We're being outbred 10 to 1, so it doesn't really matter anymore.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline NavyCanDo

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Yup. I've been very supportive of Trump's ambitious plans for NASA and space flight. He's got some great allies in Houston and Cap Canaveral by way of Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio.

Yep, if there is one area I will give him praise, its breathing life back into  the AMERICAN Space Program.   If I would have said to somebody in 1980 that by 2015 we  couldn't get 60 miles away from earth without the Russians taking us there, I would have been called a damn liar. Yet here we are. Its going to take a bit of time to get the patient back on his feet, but we are once again trying to get back in the Space Race.
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Silver Pines

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Trump seems only minimally conflicted, at best, when it comes to breaking promises.  I warned my pro-Trump friends that he would do this sort of thing over and over and over if he managed to get elected.  His book The Art of the Deal even boasts about this lovely lying.

@the_doc

Didn't he write in one of his books that he was good at telling people what they wanted to hear?  I believe he did. 

He was always going to do this. 

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From last year:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-trump-dreamers-20161215-story.html

Trump once welcomed a visit from immigrant 'Dreamers.' Now, they anxiously await his next move

But they also left with a reason for optimism. When Trump walked his young visitors to the elevator, he turned and nodded: “You convinced me,” he said. 


This particular meeting took place in 2013, years before he campaigned on deporting them.

Online DB

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I have no problem with this...

If you reward people for breaking the law, primarily their parents in this case, then you will get more of it. You can't have it both ways. Either the law stands or it doesn't.


Online DB

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These aren't 'technical violations of the law' after they are adults. They are more likely than not, using a stolen or fraudulent identity, committing tax fraud, document fraud, and many more crimes. They don't accidentally do this. If you ever studied what it takes for someone here illegally to live here, you would be blown away by the number of crimes they have to commit and how they have to stay on top of it. In other words, these aren't accidental crimes or crimes of circumstance.  They are overt, ongoing, and calculated criminal actions. These crimes have victims to. 30 million people each year have their identity stolen, a large percentage due to illegal aliens.

This is not the right thing. This is amnesty for serious crimes that would land any other citizen in jail for doing the same things.

The average grade school student costs more than $10k a year to educate. Those "dreamers" are stealing from the community that pays for those students. And these illegal families are rarely single child.

Offline the_doc

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Punish those who break our laws, not innocent family members.

Immigration law exists only for the benefit of the U.S. as a whole and for its citizens in particular.  As wealthy as we are, our economic and sociopolitical resources are still limited.  It is the government's job to maximize the security and quality of life for its citizens.   The immigration laws are designed to select for good visitors--not sickly, criminal, illiterate, unskilled folks who cannot support themselves.  There may be situations in which it is in our best interests to take in refugees with only emergency-level screening (e.g., freedom-loving Christians who are being persecuted to death by, say, consistent Muslims). 

Certain refugees would make wonderful, productive, grateful citizens of our great nation--but it is a well-documented fact that certain kinds of immigrants plan only to exploit or even deliberately ruin our Republic.  Even a shockingly high percentage of the Muslims already in our country--whether naturalized or not--advocate implementation of Sharia law and even quietly condone violence to that end.

Many folks who have been in the U.S. for decades have never cared to become citizens, never learned English, and never bothered to understand our Constitutional Republic.  This is a huge problem in California, in which 27 percent of the state's residents were not born in America.  That is likely the main reason why the state votes Democrat.  (Voting fraud is evidently rampant in California, by the way.)

Under these circumstances of a badly messed up, even hostile world, it is a slow-but-sure national suicide deliberately facilitated by Global Socialists (the very real, very determined, very dangerous enemies of our sovereign nation) to have only a loose immigration policy (for example, an open borders policy). 

Americans as a whole have always believed it is good to do good, and Americans rank among the most charitable people in the world, but self-righteous, power-mad politicians must never overrule its own citizenry's best interests in the interests of Globalism.  And saying that we must not punish innocent victims is completely beside the point.  The deportation of folks who came to the USA illegally is not punishment.  It is a necessary defense of American law, of American sovereignty. 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 09:10:02 pm by the_doc »

Offline Sanguine

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Immigration law exists only for the benefit of the U.S. as a whole and for its citizens in particular.  As wealthy as we are, our economic and sociopolitical resources are still limited.  It is the government's job to maximize the security and quality of life for its citizens.   The immigration laws are designed to select for good visitors--not sickly, criminal, illiterate, unskilled folks who cannot support themselves.  There may be situations in which it is in our best interests to take in refugees with only emergency-level screening (e.g., freedom-loving Christians who are being persecuted to death by, say, consistent Muslims). 

Certain refugees would make wonderful, productive, grateful citizens of our great nation--but it is a well-documented fact that certain kinds of immigrants plan only to exploit or even deliberately ruin our Republic.  Even a shockingly high percentage of the Muslims already in our country--whether naturalized or not--advocate implementation of Sharia law and even quietly condone violence to that end.

Many folks who have been in the U.S. for decades have never cared to become citizens, never learned English, and never bothered to understand our Constitutional Republic.  This is a huge problem in California, in which 27 percent of the state's residents were not born in America.  That is likely the main reason why the state votes Democrat.  (Voting fraud is evidently rampant in California, by the way.)

Under these circumstances of a badly messed up, even hostile world, it is a slow-but-sure national suicide deliberately facilitated by Global Socialists (the very real, very determined, very dangerous enemies of our sovereign nation) to have only a loose immigration policy (for example, an open borders policy). 

Americans as a whole have always believed it is good to do good, and Americans rank among the most charitable people in the world, but self-righteous, power-mad politicians must never overrule its own citizenry's best interests in the interests of Globalism.  And saying that we must not punish innocent victims is completely beside the point.

Beautifully said, Doc.  And, what are these people victims of?  Being allowed the opportunities here for some portion of their lives?

Offline skeeter

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Immigration law exists only for the benefit of the U.S. as a whole and for its citizens in particular.  As wealthy as we are, our economic and sociopolitical resources are still limited.  It is the government's job to maximize the security and quality of life for its citizens.   The immigration laws are designed to select for good visitors--not sickly, criminal, illiterate, unskilled folks who cannot support themselves.  There may be situations in which it is in our best interests to take in refugees with only emergency-level screening (e.g., freedom-loving Christians who are being persecuted to death by, say, consistent Muslims). 

Certain refugees would make wonderful, productive, grateful citizens of our great nation--but it is a well-documented fact that certain kinds of immigrants plan only to exploit or even deliberately ruin our Republic.  Even a shockingly high percentage of the Muslims already in our country--whether naturalized or not--advocate implementation of Sharia law and even quietly condone violence to that end.

Many folks who have been in the U.S. for decades have never cared to become citizens, never learned English, and never bothered to understand our Constitutional Republic.  This is a huge problem in California, in which 27 percent of the state's residents were not born in America.  That is likely the main reason why the state votes Democrat.  (Voting fraud is evidently rampant in California, by the way.)

Under these circumstances of a badly messed up, even hostile world, it is a slow-but-sure national suicide deliberately facilitated by Global Socialists (the very real, very determined, very dangerous enemies of our sovereign nation) to have only a loose immigration policy (for example, an open borders policy). 

Americans as a whole have always believed it is good to do good, and Americans rank among the most charitable people in the world, but self-righteous, power-mad politicians must never overrule its own citizenry's best interests in the interests of Globalism.  And saying that we must not punish innocent victims is completely beside the point.  The deportation of folks who came to the USA illegally is not punishment.  It is a necessary defense of American law, of American sovereignty.

Strip the emotion from the argument and all that remains is reason. Thanks for this.

Offline the_doc

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Beautifully said, Doc.  And, what are these people victims of?  Being allowed the opportunities here for some portion of their lives?
@Sanguine

Thanks.  Please see the two sentences I added at the end of my post (while you were writing your response).

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Once they are adults and aware that they are here illegally...and do nothing to remedy the situation without special protection of the Liberals...they are just as guilty of breaking U.S. law as the parents who smuggled them here in the first place.
I would venture to say that that awareness comes long before legal adulthood—at the very latest, it comes when a 15- or 16-year-old realizes he or she is not eligible for a learner's permit.
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Offline anubias

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The average grade school student costs more than $10k a year to educate. Those "dreamers" are stealing from the community that pays for those students. And these illegal families are rarely single child.

Yes they are.  Most were raised on government bennies and college educated on our dime as well.  We have a huge investment in these people that we should not have made.  It has to stop.

 :Odance:


Offline Chosen Daughter

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And since we are not building the wall we will have a new generation of dreamers.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline the_doc

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@the_doc

Didn't he write in one of his books that he was good at telling people what they wanted to hear?  I believe he did. 

He was always going to do this.

His favorite preacher was reportedly Norman Vincent Peale, whom I regard as a goody-feely heretic.  Trump certainly never learned the Biblical description of a real Christian from Peale's sermons.

According to Trump's own Atlantic City casino manager, Trump practically always stiffed vendors and contractors, shorting his payments to them on false pretenses.  (Trump entered into contracts planning in advance not to pay them the contractual amount.  Trump seemed to regard that as a good way to negotiate deals, but it was just plain lying.)

Offline ConservativeGranny

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@the_doc

Didn't he write in one of his books that he was good at telling people what they wanted to hear?  I believe he did. 

He was always going to do this.

Yep. The best source for accurate information about Trump  is Trump himself. He tells you exactly what he really thinks and what he is going to do. All one has to do is take their fingers out of their ears and remove the blindfold.

Offline rodamala

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Wait I got told last night that Trump has yet to go back on any campaign promises.  :pondering:

LOL!

Offline rodamala

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Yep. The best source for accurate information about Trump  is Trump himself. He tells you exactly what he really thinks and what he is going to do. All one has to do is take their fingers out of their ears and remove the blindfold.

I will assume the sarcasm tag is implied.

Online DB

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Yep. The best source for accurate information about Trump  is Trump himself. He tells you exactly what he really thinks and what he is going to do. All one has to do is take their fingers out of their ears and remove the blindfold.

Was that when he was for abortion including partial birth abortion or when he was against it?

Was that when he was for outlawing "assault weapons" or when he was against it?

Was that when he was for the individual mandate or when he was against it?

Was that when he said he was going to put Hillary in jail if elected or when he said "they're good people" shortly after being elected?

Was that when he suggested Cruz' dad was involved with the JFK assassination or when he said he didn't really believe that but wanted to "win"?

Was that when he said he was going to build a great big wall and deport illegals or when he said he was going to put a door in it and "keep the good ones"?

Was that when he said Goldman Sach's owned the politicians and was wrecking the country or when he brought Goldman Sach's top people into his administration?

The list is long... Those are just the things I could think of off the top of my head...
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 04:23:52 am by DB »

Offline Hoodat

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Wait.  Trump said he would deport them first before expediting them right back in.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Wait.  Trump said he would deport them first before expediting them right back in.

That was the plan.  Touchback immigration.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Trump has not made any decisions on the long term policy with "Dreamers". This is just a temporary continuation of the policy in place...not to target them for Deportation when our hands are already full chasing down illegals who are committing crimes and who are entering illegally as adults. The "bargaining chip" of the Dreamers being in play to gain support for the wall is still available and will absolutely come into play in budget negotiations this fall.

Trump has brought illegal immigration down dramatically...nearly a 60% drop...with his policies. That is the definition of fulfilling has campaign promise to get illegal immigration under control. Further, he is fighting to get the wall built with contracting already under way along with cost analysis. While its true he can't get everything he wants at the tip of his hat, and sometimes discretion is the better part of valor as in this case with DACA participants...his "campaign promise" is actively being pursued by the President and his administration. By not focusing on DACA right NOW, he can focus on all other forms of illegal immigration and use DACA as a chip in the wall fight this fall in budget negotiations.

I would ask for a source for the 60% drop you mention, but I won't listen to any of the fake news, so I'll believe it when President Trump tweets it.

You make a good point that this reversal of policy strengthens President Trump's hand should he choose to pursue some other immigration related campaign promise he made.  I can see this is a setback for the border warriors, but in reality they were never going get the Dreamers deported so take it off the table.

I believe DACA is pretty much the least a civilized society should demand of the government.  I stand shoulder to shoulder with the President of the United States.  This was a tough position to take politically, because this issue is now done.  DACA is here to stay.

...and the squeeling tears of dozens...and perhaps hundreds of alt-right Pepe the Frog fans warms my heart.

Thank you President Trump! I pray this legacy and SCOTUS Justice Gorsuch last long beyond your term in office.

 


Online DB

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I would ask for a source for the 60% drop you mention, but I won't listen to any of the fake news, so I'll believe it when President Trump tweets it.

You make a good point that this reversal of policy strengthens President Trump's hand should he choose to pursue some other immigration related campaign promise he made.  I can see this is a setback for the border warriors, but in reality they were never going get the Dreamers deported so take it off the table.

I believe DACA is pretty much the least a civilized society should demand of the government.  I stand shoulder to shoulder with the President of the United States.  This was a tough position to take politically, because this issue is now done.  DACA is here to stay.

...and the squeeling tears of dozens...and perhaps hundreds of alt-right Pepe the Frog fans warms my heart.

Thank you President Trump! I pray this legacy and SCOTUS Justice Gorsuch last long beyond your term in office.

If he really drops the Paris Agreement that will also be something of significance that will hopefully last a long time. I say really because I have my doubts he'll actually follow through but here's hope'n...