Why is cladding banned in the US and Germany used on buildings in the UK?

[EC]

The type of cladding installed at Grenfell Tower during a major refit last year is banned in the US and rated as ‘flammable’ in Germany, it has emerged.

Reynobond aluminium coated panels with a flammable plastic core, known as PE, conform to British safety standards, despite being ruled dangerous elsewhere.
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It is feared that they helped the flames to spread, contributing to the devastating fire that took many lives.

Reynobond, an American company, produce three types of panel – one with the flammable core and two that are fire-resistant.

It is thought that contractors working on the refit of the west London tower block last year chose the model with the plastic core as it is cheaper.
Why is cladding banned in the US and Germany used on buildings in the UK?
Some people believe the cladding helped the fire spread (Picture: PA)
Why is cladding banned in the US and Germany used on buildings in the UK?
The cladding was only fitted last year (Picture: REX/Shutterstock)

Using the fire-resistant version would have cost about £5,000 more – the total cost of the refit was £8.7 million.

A salesman for Reynobond told the Times that PE is banned in the US for buildings taller than 40ft for safety reasons.
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He said: ‘It’s because of the fire and smoke spread. The FR (variant) is fire-resistant. The PE is just plastic.’

Meanwhile, Germany ranks the material as ‘flammable’, putting it in the same category as ‘unprotected wood with a thickness of no more than 12mm’.

However, the cladding is used by high-rise buildings in France, the UAE and Australia.

More: http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/16/why-is-cladding-banned-in-the-us-and-germany-used-on-buildings-in-the-uk-6712578/#mv-b

[bigheadfred]

A new and improved tinderbox.

[thackney]

I would guess more will be banning the flammable version.

Many safety rules are written in the blood of those who died before.

[Mom MD]

A new and improved tinderbox.

but it is cheaper....

[bigheadfred]

but it is cheaper....

Not counting the cost in sorrow.

[Mom MD]

Not counting the cost in sorrow.

That was said tongue firmly in cheek. 

[EC]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

Angry protesters attempt to storm town hall
Posted at 16:26

Demonstrators have marched to Kensington Town Hall, and some have managed to enter the foyer, a BBC reporter at the scene reports.

This is turning nasty. People are pissed.

[dfwgator]

A new and improved tinderbox.

They should have gotten the first clue from the original Architect's presentation....

[bigheadfred]

That was said tongue firmly in cheek.

I know.

[Cyber Liberty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

Angry protesters attempt to storm town hall
Posted at 16:26

Demonstrators have marched to Kensington Town Hall, and some have managed to enter the foyer, a BBC reporter at the scene reports.

This is turning nasty. People are pissed.

They should be.  It pisses me off these people died because somebody wanted to trim 5,000 Pounds off the cost of the renovation because the inhabitants were poor.  Somebody's going to pay for this.

[Smokin Joe]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

Angry protesters attempt to storm town hall
Posted at 16:26

Demonstrators have marched to Kensington Town Hall, and some have managed to enter the foyer, a BBC reporter at the scene reports.

This is turning nasty. People are pissed.

I can't blame them, frankly.

[Frank Cannon]

Saved a little less than $10K on a $12+ million dollar project? Chartered accountancy isn't what it used to be.

[Sighlass]

I would guess more will be banning the flammable version.

Many safety rules are written in the blood of those who died before.

Agree... nothing more to say.

[driftdiver]

Saved a little less than $10K on a $12+ million dollar project? Chartered accountancy isn't what it used to be.

In my experience the bean counters do not care.   This being a government contract they probably bid the absolutely cheapest they could, knowing the decision would be made on price and price alone.   I believe "Lowest Technically Acceptable" is the phrase used.

[Cyber Liberty]

In my experience the bean counters do not care.   This being a government contract they probably bid the absolutely cheapest they could, knowing the decision would be made on price and price alone.   I believe "Lowest Technically Acceptable" is the phrase used.

Since it's bean-counters, I use the term "lowest bidder."  I really hate bean-counters.  Every time a company gets run by them that company goes from the largest in the business to non-existent.  Look at Motorola.

[RoosGirl]

I haven't read anything about a fire suppression system.  Was there one and was it working correctly?

[Bigun]

Since it's bean-counters, I use the term "lowest bidder."  I really hate bean-counters.  Every time a company gets run by them that company goes from the largest in the business to non-existent.  Look at Motorola.

The only real trouble I ever got into during my career was for cussing out a couple of those SOBs on public airwaves. 

I got a talking to in town.  They got sent back to NY to learn how things work in the real world.

[Cyber Liberty]

I haven't read anything about a fire suppression system.  Was there one and was it working correctly?

That's a good question.

@EC I have another question, and I understand it could be premised in BS.  I've never been to your country, but I have watched my share of silly BBC TV shows on PBS, and I want to ask you about refrigerators, which is allegedly where this fire started.  I've noticed you tend to small fridges because, I guess, you don't chill as many things as we do over here.  Mrs. Liberty told me the refrigerators in the building were propane powered.  RVs use that kind of refrigerator here, but I've never seen them used in a residence.  Is there any truth to that?  Seems like that would be an extreme fire hazard.

[Smokin Joe]

I haven't read anything about a fire suppression system.  Was there one and was it working correctly?

I believe the early accounts said yes, and no, respectively.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I would guess more will be banning the flammable version.

Many safety rules are written in the blood of those who died before.

Yeah, here's one close to home an old-timer told me he used to stay in while he worked in Houston during the war.  Caused a massive shift in the way Houston did fire safety.


http://blog.chron.com/bayoucityhistory/2013/09/70-years-ago-the-deadliest-disaster-in-houstons-history/

[DB]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-london-40239008

Angry protesters attempt to storm town hall
Posted at 16:26

Demonstrators have marched to Kensington Town Hall, and some have managed to enter the foyer, a BBC reporter at the scene reports.

This is turning nasty. People are pissed.

If whatever was used was legal, meaning it met the fire code requirements, then it is primarily the fault of the fire code.

[Smokin Joe]

That's a good question.

@EC I have another question, and I understand it could be premised in BS.  I've never been to your country, but I have watched my share of silly BBC TV shows on PBS, and I want to ask you about refrigerators, which is allegedly where this fire started.  I've noticed you tend to small fridges because, I guess, you don't chill as many things as we do over here.  Mrs. Liberty told me the refrigerators in the building were propane powered.  RVs use that kind of refrigerator here, but I've never seen them used in a residence.  Is there any truth to that?  Seems like that would be an extreme fire hazard.

Propane powered fridges and propane furnaces all have a thermocouple which delivers a small current to the gas valve. If the pilot is lit, the thermocouple is heated, and the gas valve stays open (You bypass it to light the pilot, but have to return it to regular operation to run the appliance). If the pilot is not lit, there is no current to the gas valve, and no gas passes through the valve. The default situation is to shut off the valve. Outside of a leaking line or connection, there is not problem with RV (and off-grid) refrigeration run by propane.
With the exception of some specialized industrial applications, propane is not used as a refrigerant in mass produced appliances in the US.

I'll let @EC speak to the use of such in the UK, as he is more knowledgeable about that aspect.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Mrs. Liberty told me the refrigerators in the building were propane powered.  RVs use that kind of refrigerator here, but I've never seen them used in a residence.  Is there any truth to that?  Seems like that would be an extreme fire hazard.

Just went on a visit last month to Amish country, where no external wiring like electricity or telephones, nor gas or cable lines, are allowed to be connected to residences.

Has to do with having an external connection into the house.  So can only bring in things like batteries and propane.

The refrigerators in the houses run on butane or propane, and are in all the houses.

[DB]

That's a good question.

@EC I have another question, and I understand it could be premised in BS.  I've never been to your country, but I have watched my share of silly BBC TV shows on PBS, and I want to ask you about refrigerators, which is allegedly where this fire started.  I've noticed you tend to small fridges because, I guess, you don't chill as many things as we do over here.  Mrs. Liberty told me the refrigerators in the building were propane powered.  RVs use that kind of refrigerator here, but I've never seen them used in a residence.  Is there any truth to that?  Seems like that would be an extreme fire hazard.

The home refrigerators are not "propane powered", they are electric. But... It appears they commonly use butane for refrigerant in thier refrigerators because it is "green" and doesn't contain CFCs which are not flammable.

[Bigun]

Just went on a visit last month to Amish country, where no external wiring like electricity or telephones, nor gas or cable lines, are allowed to be connected to residences.

Has to do with having an external connection into the house.  So can only bring in things like batteries and propane.

The refrigerators in the houses run on butane or propane, and are in all the houses.

There were a great many like that in use here years ago as well.  Probably still are in some rural areas.   BTW: take a look at how well the light bulbs in new refigerators are protected.  There is a reason for that!