Conservatives near revolt on Senate health care negotiations

[Smokin Joe]

Ok. Have it your way.  You were warned.

Warned? WTF? No we were  SCREWED BY THE LYING 'MODERATE' REPUBLICANS. There isn't any other way to put it. I would really appreciate it if you would quit trying to fold this back on Conservatives. It is Republican duplicity here that is the only serious impediment to getting rid of this huge and unConstitutional mess that has been killing the economy since it passed. I can think of a half dozen small businesses which did not expand because of Obamacare regs, some of which are done, anyway.
Pass some half-assed nonsense, and the economy is still getting brutalized, the recovery will not happen. That will be on the "Moderate Republicans" (liberals with an 'R'). At least have the decency to own it.

[Oceander]

Warned? WTF? No we were  SCREWED BY THE LYING 'MODERATE' REPUBLICANS. There isn't any other way to put it. I would really appreciate it if you would quit trying to fold this back on Conservatives. It is Republican duplicity here that is the only serious impediment to getting rid of this huge and unConstitutional mess that has been killing the economy since it passed. I can think of a half dozen small businesses which did not expand because of Obamacare regs, some of which are done, anyway.
Pass some half-assed nonsense, and the economy is still getting brutalized, the recovery will not happen. That will be on the "Moderate Republicans" (liberals with an 'R'). At least have the decency to own it.

Have it your way.  You were warned. 

What was the old canard: those with weak stomachs should not watch sausage or laws being made.

The bottom line is that if @Mesaclone and I both come to the same basic conclusion, there's probably some merit to it since we are otherwise so opposed to each other. 

[RoosGirl]

Warned? WTF? No we were  SCREWED BY THE LYING 'MODERATE' REPUBLICANS. There isn't any other way to put it. I would really appreciate it if you would quit trying to fold this back on Conservatives. It is Republican duplicity here that is the only serious impediment to getting rid of this huge and unConstitutional mess that has been killing the economy since it passed. I can think of a half dozen small businesses which did not expand because of Obamacare regs, some of which are done, anyway.
Pass some half-assed nonsense, and the economy is still getting brutalized, the recovery will not happen. That will be on the "Moderate Republicans" (liberals with an 'R'). At least have the decency to own it.

So true.  It's party-think.  We who have already walked away recognize it for what it is, but some people still think that the party will still come through for them, no matter how many times the party hasn't.

[Oceander]

So true.  It's party-think.  We who have already walked away recognize it for what it is, but some people still think that the party will still come through for them, no matter how many times the party hasn't.

As Reagan used to say .....

[Bigun]

So true.  It's party-think.  We who have already walked away recognize it for what it is, but some people still think that the party will still come through for them, no matter how many times the party hasn't.

At the risk of repeating myself yet again,  if you keep on doing what you've always done you're going to keep on getting what you've always gotten!

[RoosGirl]

As Reagan used to say .....

I hate to say that there's no Reagan coming to save your bacon.  Enough people of that character no longer exist or are smart enough not to be in politics anymore.

[Oceander]

At the risk of repeating myself yet again,  if you keep on doing what you've always done you're going to keep on getting wh a t you've always gotten!

Truer words could not be spoken to describe the so-called conservative republicans:  we haven't gotten anything and with them around we'll still keep getting nothing, even though the GOP current controls Congress and the White House.  Instead, we get a Twitterholic wasting time on trivialities in the WH and a purity circle jerk paralyzing Congress.

[Oceander]

I hate to say that there's no Reagan coming to save your bacon.  Enough people of that character no longer exist or are smart enough not to be in politics anymore.

You're right.  We have instead a bunch of losers (and that includes the conservatives) who think only binary: "my way or the highway", and who don't have the ability to play the long game, get what they can now and have a plan to come back and get some more later on. 

[RoosGirl]

Truer words could not be spoken to describe the so-called conservative republicans:  we haven't gotten anything and with them around we'll still keep getting nothing, even though the GOP current controls Congress and the White House.  Instead, we get a Twitterholic wasting time on trivialities in the WH and a purity circle jerk paralyzing Congress.

Yes, everyone should get on board the mediocrity train!

[RoosGirl]

You're right.  We have instead a bunch of losers (and that includes the conservatives) who think only binary: "my way or the highway", and who don't have the ability to play the long game, get what they can now and have a plan to come back and get some more later on.

Explain to me putting a repeal bill on the presidents desk then and coming back for less now?

[Oceander]

Yes, everyone should get on board the mediocrity train!

What you call the mediocrity train is, in fact, reality.  Reality means having to deal with a lot of people who disagree with you and have the power to frustrate your intentions to one degree or another.  What matters is how well you are able to play the hand you're dealt, not how loudly you can complain about how unfair and mediocre that hand is. 

[RoosGirl]

What you call the mediocrity train is, in fact, reality.  Reality means having to deal with a lot of people who disagree with you and have the power to frustrate your intentions to one degree or another.  What matters is how well you are able to play the hand you're dealt, not how loudly you can complain about how unfair and mediocre that hand is.

Oceander,  I'm going to sell you my house for $5. But in 4 years I'm going to come back to you and say I think I want more for my house now.  Are you going to give it to me?

[Oceander]

Explain to me putting a repeal bill on the presidents desk then and coming back for less now?

Because the votes are no longer there for that one.  Clearly.  Elections have consequences.  What was possible then is no longer possible, and vice versa. 

Furthermore, since everyone knew that one wouldn't be signed, it was easy peasy, nice and easy, to pass a repeal bill without having to worry about a replacement.  Well, that luxury is gone and the GOP now needs the replace as well as to repeal.  Therein lies the devilish details. 

[Oceander]

Oceander,  I'm going to sell you my house for $5. But in 4 years I'm going to come back to you and say I think I want more for my house now.  Are you going to give it to me?

That's a stupid question because it's not at all comparable.

[Bigun]

Truer words could not be spoken to describe the so-called conservative republicans:  we haven't gotten anything and with them around we'll still keep getting nothing, even though the GOP current controls Congress and the White House.  Instead, we get a Twitterholic wasting time on trivialities in the WH and a purity circle jerk paralyzing Congress.

Here are a few more true words for you: The only things one finds in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos!

[Oceander]

Here are a few more true words for you: The only things one finds in the middle of the road are yellow stripes and dead armadillos!

Sure thing, sport.

[Bigun]

Because the votes are no longer there for that one.  Clearly.  Elections have consequences.  What was possible then is no longer possible, and vice versa. 

Furthermore, since everyone knew that one wouldn't be signed, it was easy peasy, nice and easy, to pass a repeal bill without having to worry about a replacement.  Well, that luxury is gone and the GOP now needs the replace as well as to repeal.  Therein lies the devilish details.

BS!  More smoke and mirrors!

[RoosGirl]

That's a stupid question because it's not at all comparable.

Please provide some real life examples of when a Republican majority congress passed a bill that wasn't as "conservative" as they wanted it to be and then later was able to get a more conservative bill passed.

[jmyrlefuller]

You're right.  We have instead a bunch of losers (and that includes the conservatives) who think only binary: "my way or the highway", and who don't have the ability to play the long game, get what they can now and have a plan to come back and get some more later on.

I've been an advocate of that approach, but we have to get something substantial in our favor before we compromise. Right now we have nothing. In regard to the shutdown, the Democrats were not going to give us anything without putting up a fight. If you're constantly a pushover, you'll have a very difficult time negotiating favorable terms on anything. You have to use the leverage you have to get the other side to concede.

[Bigun]

I've been an advocate of that approach, but we have to get something substantial in our favor before we compromise. Right now we have nothing. In regard to the shutdown, the Democrats were not going to give us anything without putting up a fight. If you're constantly a pushover, you'll have a very difficult time negotiating favorable terms on anything. You have to use the leverage you have to get the other side to concede.

And if you throw in the towel before the game even starts you lose every time.

Our side has become very expert at doing that.

[Oceander]

Y'all have been warned.  By Reagan, no less. 

[RoosGirl]

Someone remind me how Reagan felt about the California abortion bill he compromised on.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Because the votes are no longer there for that one.  Clearly.  Elections have consequences.  What was possible then is no longer possible, and vice versa. 

Furthermore, since everyone knew that one wouldn't be signed, it was easy peasy, nice and easy, to pass a repeal bill without having to worry about a replacement.  Well, that luxury is gone and the GOP now needs the replace as well as to repeal.  Therein lies the devilish details.

Defeatism by some are always present.

I recall that being said when Obama was President and he had a solid Dem lock in Congress. 

We were certainly not defeated then by the naysayers who said so as, guess what?  The roles are reversed.

The art of the possible, not some scared-to-try is what we need.

[roamer_1]

It really IS that simple.

Yes, it really is.

[Mesaclone]

Perhaps some need to quit living in fantasy land.

You can only pass legislation for which you have 50 votes in the Senate. The "perfect" conservative bill....or a full repeal with no strings...cannot get 50 votes under any circumstance. Getting 50 votes for a bill akin to what the House passed is going to be incredibly tough as well...but at least it has a chance. That is the parameter of the possible...and it stands in contrast to the parameters of fantasyland within which many of you seem to be residing.

If we do nothing, as some here suggest, the economy likely collapses. Thanks to the collapse of Ocare and the ensuing government shutdown as the GOP refuses to pass anything other than the "perfect", conservative approved bill (despite not having 50 conservative votes to do so) we will endure a fiscal meltdown of epic proportions. The tag of failing to govern and collapsing the economy will stick to the GOP entirely...as they were in power when this event happens....unfair, but that's the way it is in politics. Those who want to play "I don't own it" are plain wrong....maybe you didn't buy it, but its yours regardless, and the media will label this the "conservative" economic collapse of 2018.

If you want single payer and a generation of liberal governance....your approach is going to achieve your goal in sensational fashion. That's not hyperbole, its just the obvious end of a fiasco in which "conservatives" will only vote for a bill that can only get 40 or so votes in the Senate. Its idiocy....at a stupendous level. Worse, its not even principled because it directly creates a huge shift to the Left in this country...sabotaging every issue conservatives care about.

The Moral narcissism of SOME conservatives is going to bring down this Republic...mark my words...and turn it into a liberal theocracy that will be a daily living nightmare. For gosh sakes, at least have the sense to follow in Ted Cruz's footsteps and push this bill through...more improvements can be made over time. A minor victory sure as hell Trumps a crushing and likely permanent defeat, which is precisely where you folks are taking us if this bill fails.