Conservatives near revolt on Senate health care negotiations

[Right_in_Virginia]

Why not?

Because the conservatives will not go along with the moderates in the Senate ... and there are more moderates. 

It's the usual dynamic.   

[Axeslinger]

Except that they won't.  If they sit on their hands and do nothing, when it collapses, they will be blamed for have done nothing, not even a little bit to help the worst affected, and the DNC will ask, with some justification, what's the point of letting the GOP run Congress if they don't do anything when they have control?  They'll say "look, we admit there are problems with Obamacare as we initially passed it, but they can be fixed and we have a plan to fix it.  Why continue trusting these idiots in the GOP who won't even try to fix it?"  If all the exchanges have collapsed by 2018 and the GOP is still holding a circle jerk with the diehard "conservatives" the GOP will be routed.  And single payer U.K. style nationalized health care will be in place by 2020 or so.

@Oceander

As former congressman Tom tancredo said in another article:

"The message being sent to Republican rank and file voters across the country is pathetic: Elect us and we will slow down the growth of the leviathan state but we lack the courage to reverse course. That, my friends, is a suicide note."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/09/tancredo-have-congressional-republican-leaders-joined-the-resistance/

It really IS that simple.

[Bigun]

Yep, and this American is sick of some SOB lying to me and then getting paid more than I do in an average year to do it.

You aren't alone either!  I'm sick and damned tired of being patronized and flat out lied to!

[Bigun]

Because the conservatives will not go along with the moderates in the Senate ... and there are more moderates. 

It's the usual dynamic.   

Moderates my a $$!  Patronizing lying scum is more like it!

[Oceander]

@Oceander

As former congressman Tom tancredo said in another article:

"The message being sent to Republican rank and file voters across the country is pathetic: Elect us and we will slow down the growth of the leviathan state but we lack the courage to reverse course. That, my friends, is a suicide note."

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/06/09/tancredo-have-congressional-republican-leaders-joined-the-resistance/

It really IS that simple.

Nothing ever is really that simple.  It would be good if the so-called conservatives would actually apply some of the lessons from Reagan, whom they claim to adore; namely, admit that you can't get everything you want, prioritize, get something that's worthwhile and worth the exchange you make, do not care who gets the credit, and come back for more the next day. 

The fact is, outright repeal isn't happening, period. So we either start to make some fixes - to get what we can get - or we accede to the status quo.  And since we're in charge right now, we will end up owning the status quo because if we do nothing, and it collapses, then people will want to know why we didn't even try to fix the worst of it.  If the exchanges all collapse and the GOP hasn't passed anything, not even a stop-gap to help the worst off, it will own that failure. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Moderates my a $$!  Patronizing lying scum is more like it!

True enough @Bigun ... but they are the majority of the Republican Senate.  Gotta deal with them if anything is to get done.   

[Bigun]

True enough @Bigun ... but they are the majority of the Republican Senate.  Gotta deal with them if anything is to get done.   

Texas will deal with John Cornyn soon.  On that you can depend!

[truth_seeker]

Nothing ever is really that simple.  It would be good if the so-called conservatives would actually apply some of the lessons from Reagan, whom they claim to adore; namely, admit that you can't get everything you want, prioritize, get something that's worthwhile and worth the exchange you make, do not care who gets the credit, and come back for more the next day. 

The fact is, outright repeal isn't happening, period. So we either start to make some fixes - to get what we can get - or we accede to the status quo.  And since we're in charge right now, we will end up owning the status quo because if we do nothing, and it collapses, then people will want to know why we didn't even try to fix the worst of it.  If the exchanges all collapse and the GOP hasn't passed anything, not even a stop-gap to help the worst off, it will own that failure.

Agreed. Reagan said: "Die-hard conservatives thought that if I couldn't get everything I asked for, I should jump off the cliff with the flag flying-go down in flames. No, if I can get 70 or 80 percent of what it is I'm trying to get ... I'll take that and then continue to try to get the rest in the future."

[Bigun]

Agreed. Reagan said: "Die-hard conservatives thought that if I couldn't get everything I asked for, I should jump off the cliff with the flag flying-go down in flames. No, if I can get 70 or 80 percent of what it is I'm trying to get ... I'll take that and then continue to try to get the rest in the future."

"You miss 100% of the shots you never take! "  Wayne Gretzki

[Hoodat]

Conservatives near revolt on Senate health care negotiations

What negotiations?  Conservatives are being ordered to roll over and vote for tweaking Obamacare with a brand new entitlement added in.  So where is the negotiation?  It's still the same old crappy law.

Seven years ago, we were up in arms about the government mandating who and what get covered.  Yet with today's Republican sellouts, mandates are now a wonderful thing.

To hell with them all.  Either kill it, or go home.

[Hoodat]

Agreed. Reagan said: "Die-hard conservatives thought that if I couldn't get everything I asked for, I should jump off the cliff with the flag flying-go down in flames. No, if I can get 70 or 80 percent of what it is I'm trying to get ... I'll take that and then continue to try to get the rest in the future."

So what exactly are we getting (besides a brand new entitlement program administered by the IRS)?

[jmyrlefuller]

By what, doing nothing?  Do you really think the DNC and the MSM are going to give the GOP a pass on that?  That's tantamount to letting the government shut down again, and that worked real well last time.

If that was sarcasm, it failed. Remember, the GOP made huge gains and took back the Senate after that shutdown.

When the government spends three dollars for every two it takes in, a true shutdown (where we don't turn around and pay people for work they never did) is not only worthwhile, but needed.

[Bigun]

If that was sarcasm, it failed. Remember, the GOP made huge gains and took back the Senate after that shutdown.

When the government spends three dollars for every two it takes in, a true shutdown (where we don't turn around and pay people for work they never did) is not only worthwhile, but needed.

Right on!  Right on!  and RIGHT ON!

[Oceander]

If that was sarcasm, it failed. Remember, the GOP made huge gains and took back the Senate after that shutdown.

When the government spends three dollars for every two it takes in, a true shutdown (where we don't turn around and pay people for work they never did) is not only worthwhile, but needed.

The GOP didn't make huge gains and would have done much better if they hadn't shut down the government. As it was, they still weren't able to do much constructive afterward. 

[Bigun]

The GOP didn't make huge gains and would have done much better if they hadn't shut down the government. As it was, they still weren't able to do much constructive afterward.

So now you want to argue over the meaning of "huge".   

[Oceander]

So now you want to argue over the meaning of "huge".   

After the shutdown, how many of their campaign promises were the radicals who shut it down able to perform on?  Did they actually walk the walk, or just talk the talk?

[Bigun]

After the shutdown, how many of their campaign promises were the radicals who shut it down able to perform on?  Did they actually walk the walk, or just talk the talk?

Not because they didn't try!  Slime ball moderates and  full blown RINOS stood in the way! I HATE the swamp dwelling bastards with a passion!

[Oceander]

Not because they didn't try!  Slime ball moderates and  full blown RINOS stood in the way! I HATE the swamp dwelling bastards with a passion!

In other words, those radical conservatives were total failures as politicians because they weren't able to state their case well enough to convince anyone else to side with them. 

[Bigun]

In other words, those radical conservatives were total failures as politicians because they weren't able to state their case well enough to convince anyone else to side with them.

Nope!  Because they weren't able to get the swamp dwelling bastards to represent the people who elected them rather than ther K Street  masters!  And nothing much has changed even now!

I didn't start out as a Trump supporter  but those slimy bastards have made me one!

[Oceander]

Nope!  Because they weren't able to get the swamp dwelling bastards to represent the people who elected them rather than ther K Street  masters!

If those "swamp dwelling bastards" weren't representing the people who elected them, then why did so many of them get re-elected, both back then and subsequently?  Just because someone else's elected representative doesn't please you, does not ipso facto mean that the someone else in question is not pleased.  That is where the skills of persuasion are supposed to come into play:  your representative - if he has the better position - should have been able to persuade others to his position, that he didn't indicates either (a) he didn't have the better position, or (b) he didn't have the skills needed to persuade others.  Or, more likely with the radical conservatives, he didn't even bother to try.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

By what, doing nothing?  Do you really think the DNC and the MSM are going to give the GOP a pass on that?  That's tantamount to letting the government shut down again, and that worked real well last time.

Yes, do nothing to finance the piece of crap and it will wither away.

And you seem so afraid of the media and the Dems. 

The current President got there because he was not fearful of them.

Once you get it through your head that the Dems and MSM will NEVER give a pass to DT or the GOP, then perhaps you can think rationally.

[Bigun]

If those "swamp dwelling bastards" weren't representing the people who elected them, then why did so many of them get re-elected, both back then and subsequently?  Just because someone else's elected representative doesn't please you, does not ipso facto mean that the someone else in question is not pleased.  That is where the skills of persuasion are supposed to come into play:  your representative - if he has the better position - should have been able to persuade others to his position, that he didn't indicates either (a) he didn't have the better position, or (b) he didn't have the skills needed to persuade others.  Or, more likely with the radical conservatives, he didn't even bother to try.

$$$$$$$ Pure and simple!

[Oceander]

$$$$$$$ Pure and simple!

So those republicans you hate bought the votes they needed to get elected?  You have evidence of this?  As far as I know, the only evidence of that sort generally points in the direction of democrats, not republicans.  Why vote for a republican who promises you half measures when you can vote for a democrat  who promises you the whole hog?  No, if vote buying were the problem, those people would be democrats in name, not republicans of any stripe.

[Oceander]

Yes, do nothing to finance the piece of crap and it will wither away.

And you seem so afraid of the media and the Dems. 

The current President got there because he was not fearful of them.

Once you get it through your head that the Dems and MSM will NEVER give a pass to DT or the GOP, then perhaps you can think rationally.

It won't wither away into something materially better.  It'll wither away into something even worse than we have now, and since the GOP won't have done anything to help, people will give in to the DNC rhetoric that we need emergency measures to set up a national single payer system to tide us over until they, the democrats, can fix it permanently.

The health care industry is not like a Phoenix, and no better system is going to miraculously spring from the ashes of the current system if it just withers away.  What will result is a crisis, and since the DNC are much better at taking advantage of crises - never let a good crisis go to waste - what will spring from the ashes will be the democrats' next step toward nationalized health care: single payer.   Most likely they'll do an "emergency" expansion of Medicaid. 

[Bigun]

So those republicans you hate bought the votes they needed to get elected?  You have evidence of this?  As far as I know, the only evidence of that sort generally points in the direction of democrats, not republicans.  Why vote for a republican who promises you half measures when you can vote for a democrat  who promises you the whole hog?  No, if vote buying were the problem, those people would be democrats in name, not republicans of any stripe.

Actually I have real world experience at trying to overcome the affects of copious quantities of lobbyist  $$$$ in a primary!