Author Topic: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe  (Read 3164 times)

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rangerrebew

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Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« on: May 31, 2017, 08:31:35 am »
Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe

Date:
    May 25, 2017
Source:
    University of Southampton
Summary:
    An international team of scientists has found evidence suggesting the dehydration of minerals deep below the ocean floor influenced the severity of the Sumatra earthquake, which took place on Dec. 26, 2004.
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https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/05/170525141547.htm
« Last Edit: May 31, 2017, 08:32:07 am by rangerrebew »

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2017, 01:24:08 pm »
Global Warming to blame?

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2017, 04:40:38 pm »
So, if I'm understanding this correctly, lack of liquid acting as lubricant made the slippage much more violent?

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2017, 04:59:42 pm »
"Dehydration" UNDER the ocean of MINERALS, led to the severity of the earthquake????

The really sad thing is that imbeciles who can no longer think logically will accept that as some kind of truth.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2017, 05:15:17 pm »
"Dehydration" UNDER the ocean of MINERALS, led to the severity of the earthquake????

The really sad thing is that imbeciles who can no longer think logically will accept that as some kind of truth.

It makes sense: water is a lubricant, lack of it increases the stored force and therefore, when the force is released it is much more severe.

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 05:19:56 pm »
"Dehydration" UNDER the ocean of MINERALS, led to the severity of the earthquake????

The really sad thing is that imbeciles who can no longer think logically will accept that as some kind of truth.

Well, as deep as that fault is, the temperatures are pretty high, which if a section of it is sealed off pretty well, can lead to a loss of water in that area.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 05:22:32 pm »
It makes sense: water is a lubricant, lack of it increases the stored force and therefore, when the force is released it is much more severe.

Yes, obviously because lack of water under the ocean is a serious problem due to the fact we eat beef.

I think they are on the issue of fixing the problem.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 05:27:44 pm »
Yes, obviously because lack of water under the ocean is a serious problem due to the fact we eat beef.

I think they are on the issue of fixing the problem.

I'm not sure what you mean there...?

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2017, 05:29:53 pm »
Methinks the accusation that conservatives are anti-science, gains some evidence with this thread.

Could we please listen to some geologists?
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2017, 05:33:38 pm »
Methinks the accusation that conservatives are anti-science, gains some evidence with this thread.

Could we please listen to some geologists?

Given that we've been inundated with fake science, it becomes difficult to sort out what is real and what is social manipulation.  So, we do have to be skeptical, but not write things off just because they say "science".  Sometimes science is just science.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2017, 05:55:00 pm »
I'm not sure what you mean there...?

The "Climate Change" people have actually suggested that our lifestyle leads to every natural disaster that happens on the planet.

Some Leftist imbecile on cable actually asked the stupid question whether 'climate change' led to this earthquake if I recall....

Probably from some stupid article somewhere that they read on Mother Jones or Newsweek or some such anal cleansing rag... ahh yes - here it is:

Scientists Say Global Warming Will Cause Deadly Earthquakes

Today the problem du jour is that Americans eat too much beef and we need to cut it out of our diets to save the planet.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2017, 06:00:56 pm »
The "Climate Change" people have actually suggested that our lifestyle leads to every natural disaster that happens on the planet.

Some Leftist imbecile on cable actually asked the stupid question whether 'climate change' led to this earthquake if I recall....

Probably from some stupid article somewhere that they read on Mother Jones or Newsweek or some such anal cleansing rag... ahh yes - here it is:

Scientists Say Global Warming Will Cause Deadly Earthquakes

Today the problem du jour is that Americans eat too much beef and we need to cut it out of our diets to save the planet.

So apparently, eating beef (damn those cow farts!), burning coal and fossil fuels and daring to have a nice life is destroying earth.  Meanwhile.... another volcano just spewed more in one hour than "mankind" could spew in 20 years (in Alaska).  And that's just one eruption.

Liberalism/leftism is a mental illness that has no cure.   Well.... no cure but the obvious, anyway. 
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2017, 06:46:36 pm »
Given that we've been inundated with fake science, it becomes difficult to sort out what is real and what is social manipulation.  So, we do have to be skeptical, but not write things off just because they say "science".  Sometimes science is just science.
Well I need to go to the gasoline filling station, to put some fake gasoline in my car.

Said fake gasoline, found and produced by fake scientists, using fake geology.

Yet earthquakes happen, because the earth below our feet shakes, moves.

Buildings can topple, people can get hurt. SCIENCE helps us understand what, how, why and SAVE LIVES in some instances.

Unreinforced brick buildings kill. Don't build them in earthquake-prone regions. Science.

We study Geology to find hydrocarbons, and to learn more about the world around us.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2017, 07:20:04 pm »
Well I need to go to the gasoline filling station, to put some fake gasoline in my car.

Said fake gasoline, found and produced by fake scientists, using fake geology.

Yet earthquakes happen, because the earth below our feet shakes, moves.

Buildings can topple, people can get hurt. SCIENCE helps us understand what, how, why and SAVE LIVES in some instances.

Unreinforced brick buildings kill. Don't build them in earthquake-prone regions. Science.

We study Geology to find hydrocarbons, and to learn more about the world around us.

Whose comment are you answering?  Obviously not mine.

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2017, 07:36:37 pm »
Methinks the accusation that conservatives are anti-science, gains some evidence with this thread.

Could we please listen to some geologists?
Sure we can.  As long as they aren't geologists who are also filthy 'Crats who lie the way normal people say, "Good morning".
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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2017, 08:36:10 pm »
Well I need to go to the gasoline filling station, to put some fake gasoline in my car.

Said fake gasoline, found and produced by fake scientists, using fake geology.

Yet earthquakes happen, because the earth below our feet shakes, moves.

Buildings can topple, people can get hurt. SCIENCE helps us understand what, how, why and SAVE LIVES in some instances.

Unreinforced brick buildings kill. Don't build them in earthquake-prone regions. Science.

We study Geology to find hydrocarbons, and to learn more about the world around us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WJXHY2OXGE

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2017, 01:31:44 am »
Methinks the accusation that conservatives are anti-science, gains some evidence with this thread.

Could we please listen to some geologists?
Ding, ding.  Where are you @Smokin Joe ?
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Oceander

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2017, 01:39:08 am »
"Dehydration" UNDER the ocean of MINERALS, led to the severity of the earthquake????

The really sad thing is that imbeciles who can no longer think logically will accept that as some kind of truth.

There is nothing inherently silly about minerals under the seabed becoming dehydrated if exposed to sufficient temperature or pressure.  The material forming the seabed may be waterlogged at the immediate interface with the water, but at some point between that interface and the center of the Earth the material (soil, rock, whatever) would become dry.  Take a rock from the desert, submerge it in a bucket of water for an hour.  Then break it open.  I'll wager good money the center is dry. 

Offline INVAR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2017, 04:34:32 am »
There is nothing inherently silly about minerals under the seabed becoming dehydrated if exposed to sufficient temperature or pressure.  The material forming the seabed may be waterlogged at the immediate interface with the water, but at some point between that interface and the center of the Earth the material (soil, rock, whatever) would become dry.  Take a rock from the desert, submerge it in a bucket of water for an hour.  Then break it open.  I'll wager good money the center is dry.

And your barbecue is to blame along with your barbaric appetite for steak - speaking of things inherently silly.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2017, 08:03:37 am »
Ding, ding.  Where are you @Smokin Joe ?
Late to the party, the hors d'oeuvres are all gone. Dangit.

On the question at hand:

 The premise is that the more thick the sediments on the oceanic plate are by the time it reaches the subduction zone, the more they will have dewatered under their own weight, and the stronger the rock will be.

 If you look at this from the ocean bottom down, the most recent sediments will be on top, the oldest lying on the submarine volcanic rocks that make up the plate (usually basalt). The subduction zone is the area where one plate is shoved beneath an adjacent plate, which appears as a trench in the ocean bottom, and is accompanied by earthquakes and volcanoes, in this case (and commonly in the west Pacific), by volcanic islands.

The thicker the layers of sediment on the volcanic part of the plate, the more pressure on the sediments at the bottom of those layers, the more water is forced out and the stronger the rock. When that rock breaks, as opposed to softer, less compressed materials, it will require more force to break it, with a greater energy release when it goes.
So, thicker sediments will have more water forced out (de-hydrated) and have greater shear strength, and if on the plate being subducted, will require more stress to fracture, and will release more energy as they are subducted. That will yield more severe earthquakes.

The premise seems scientifically sound, that for any given type of sediment, the thicker the layers of sediment being subducted along with the rest of the oceanic plate, the more severe the earthquakes (and quite possibly, tsunamis) will be. The study is being done to try to predict which areas will have the most severe earthquakes.

Note they didn't seem to be blaming global warming, although I suppose they could have tied climate to the sediment load being distributed by any rivers feeding into the area--they didn't, though that I could see, that was not the apparent focus of the study.  The Colorado School of Mines generally has a good rep among scientists in geology, better than many.
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2017, 12:37:39 pm »
Late to the party, the hors d'oeuvres are all gone. Dangit.

On the question at hand:

 The premise is that the more thick the sediments on the oceanic plate are by the time it reaches the subduction zone, the more they will have dewatered under their own weight, and the stronger the rock will be.

 If you look at this from the ocean bottom down, the most recent sediments will be on top, the oldest lying on the submarine volcanic rocks that make up the plate (usually basalt). The subduction zone is the area where one plate is shoved beneath an adjacent plate, which appears as a trench in the ocean bottom, and is accompanied by earthquakes and volcanoes, in this case (and commonly in the west Pacific), by volcanic islands.

The thicker the layers of sediment on the volcanic part of the plate, the more pressure on the sediments at the bottom of those layers, the more water is forced out and the stronger the rock. When that rock breaks, as opposed to softer, less compressed materials, it will require more force to break it, with a greater energy release when it goes.
So, thicker sediments will have more water forced out (de-hydrated) and have greater shear strength, and if on the plate being subducted, will require more stress to fracture, and will release more energy as they are subducted. That will yield more severe earthquakes.

The premise seems scientifically sound, that for any given type of sediment, the thicker the layers of sediment being subducted along with the rest of the oceanic plate, the more severe the earthquakes (and quite possibly, tsunamis) will be. The study is being done to try to predict which areas will have the most severe earthquakes.

Note they didn't seem to be blaming global warming, although I suppose they could have tied climate to the sediment load being distributed by any rivers feeding into the area--they didn't, though that I could see, that was not the apparent focus of the study.  The Colorado School of Mines generally has a good rep among scientists in geology, better than many.
Thanks, some of the supposed scholars that have chimed in may wish to review your notes.

Have heard that here in US the Cascadia subduction zone is ripe for some action.  You agree?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 12:38:14 pm by IsailedawayfromFR »
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Offline INVAR

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2017, 12:41:52 pm »
Thanks, some of the supposed scholars that have chimed in may wish to review your notes.

Have heard that here in US the Cascadia subduction zone is ripe for some action.  You agree?

I never claimed to be a scholar or a gentleman.

A smart ass ......?

You betcha.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Joe Wooten

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2017, 03:49:14 pm »
Late to the party, the hors d'oeuvres are all gone. Dangit.

On the question at hand:

 The premise is that the more thick the sediments on the oceanic plate are by the time it reaches the subduction zone, the more they will have dewatered under their own weight, and the stronger the rock will be.

 If you look at this from the ocean bottom down, the most recent sediments will be on top, the oldest lying on the submarine volcanic rocks that make up the plate (usually basalt). The subduction zone is the area where one plate is shoved beneath an adjacent plate, which appears as a trench in the ocean bottom, and is accompanied by earthquakes and volcanoes, in this case (and commonly in the west Pacific), by volcanic islands.

The thicker the layers of sediment on the volcanic part of the plate, the more pressure on the sediments at the bottom of those layers, the more water is forced out and the stronger the rock. When that rock breaks, as opposed to softer, less compressed materials, it will require more force to break it, with a greater energy release when it goes.
So, thicker sediments will have more water forced out (de-hydrated) and have greater shear strength, and if on the plate being subducted, will require more stress to fracture, and will release more energy as they are subducted. That will yield more severe earthquakes.

The premise seems scientifically sound, that for any given type of sediment, the thicker the layers of sediment being subducted along with the rest of the oceanic plate, the more severe the earthquakes (and quite possibly, tsunamis) will be. The study is being done to try to predict which areas will have the most severe earthquakes.

Note they didn't seem to be blaming global warming, although I suppose they could have tied climate to the sediment load being distributed by any rivers feeding into the area--they didn't, though that I could see, that was not the apparent focus of the study.  The Colorado School of Mines generally has a good rep among scientists in geology, better than many.

Like INVAR, I was just being a smartass by invoking globull warming.....

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2017, 06:14:24 pm »
Thanks, some of the supposed scholars that have chimed in may wish to review your notes.

Have heard that here in US the Cascadia subduction zone is ripe for some action.  You agree?
We all joke about things, and speculation is what makes us us.  :laugh: Throw a ribeye on for me and let's shake up the 'viros. This has all the hallmarks of good science.

Earthquakes are not my specialty, so I will defer to folks who have studied not only earthquakes, but the sediments that result from earthquake events. One type of these is called a turbidite, a deposit that results from a slurry of sediment moving downhill and coming to rest under water. These have a classic coarse at the bottom, finest sized sediment at the top, and grading upward appearance, and are separated by ordinary very fine sediments that make it far offshore before settling to the bottom. The record of these only reliably goes back in this region as an earthquake indicator to the last ice age, because during the ice age sea levels were far lower, and rivers dumped into the ocean down river channels that are submarine canyons and estuaries today, leaving sediments which resulted from storms when sea level was lower, and make the record less clear in terms of what can be attributed to earthquakes during the ice age and before.

Correlating turbidites believed to have been caused by earthquakes and tsunami sediments onshore with a fairly high rate of correlation and closely matching carbon dates, gives an historical record reaching back to the last ice age of major earthquake events.

Using that information: Oregon State University researchers determined:
Quote
“Over the past 10,000 years, there have been 19 earthquakes that extended along most of the margin, stretching from southern Vancouver Island to the Oregon-California border,” Goldfinger noted. “These would typically be of a magnitude from about 8.7 to 9.2 – really huge earthquakes.

“We’ve also determined that there have been 22 additional earthquakes that involved just the southern end of the fault,” he added. “We are assuming that these are slightly smaller – more like 8.0 – but not necessarily. They were still very large earthquakes that if they happened today could have a devastating impact.”

Using interval analysis, basically determining the average time between earthquakes and attempting to apply that to the last historically known earthquake there (1700, by Japanese records of harvested rice crops destroyed in the warehouses by the tsunami) the zone is considered 'overdue' for a major earthquake, but probabilities for one in the next 50 years are given at 40 percent. Because stresses build over time, even though the mechanisms which cause that buildup are not necessarily constant and steady, the time interval is one indicator of increasing risk, with the assumption that stress on the fault zone has increased, much as it has in the past.

According to one of the co-authors of the study, Jay Patton,
Quote
“By the year 2060, if we have not had an earthquake, we will have exceeded 85 percent of all the known intervals of earthquake recurrence in 10,000 years,” Patton said. “The interval between earthquakes ranges from a few decades to thousands of years. But we already have exceeded about three-fourths of them.”


Now, one of the flaws in the concept of uniformitarianism is that though processes operate under the same fundamental physical laws, processes don't necessarily operate at the same speed or intensity over time, and that is what makes predictions so problematical. That said, the general indication is that earthquake risk for the region is increasing, and with the historical frequency for major earthquakes higher (with slightly less severe earthquakes) in the south part of the zone, that is where the next earthquake seems more likely.

As yet, the experts won't predict an earthquake at some given time and place, mainly because they could easily end up in a 'cry wolf' situation. Failure to predict would make them the subject of potentially life-threatening animosity, predictions that did not manifest themselves would cost millions or billions in lost revenues and likely many lives in the ensuing panic, so they just don't go there. I don't blame them.

Here , for those who are interested is a link to the study abstract with other links to reference studies and the main paper (USGS): Turbidite Event History—Methods and Implications for Holocene Paleoseismicity of the Cascadia Subduction Zone
« Last Edit: June 01, 2017, 06:48:20 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LateForLunch

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Re: Why the Sumatra earthquake was so severe
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 06:47:21 pm »
Interesting information, thanks to all. That being said, until we can reliably purge all of the fanatically anti-conservative ('Crat) participants from science agencies, organizations, any conclusion, conjecture, warning, prediction, explanation or hypothesis must be taken with a grain of salt the size of the Rock of Gibraltar.

See, there is a new scientific axiom at work in our modern world- leftists lie. Constantly, enthusiastically and without the slightest remorse. Leftists who happen to work in technical fields are among the worst of all leftist liars because they believe that they will not be challenged to substantiate their lies by many with the ability to comprehend the technical elements involved.
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