Vice-President Mike Pence: “We Have a President Who, Without Apology, Stands for the Sanctity of Human Life”

[Emjay]

My objection is not with the Abrahamic God in whom Christians, Jews and Muslims all profess belief, but religious tribalism.   Throughout human history, more people have been killed in the name of religion than for any other reason.   The Islamofascists are big on that these days (and they kill far more Muslims than Christians),  but Christianity's history is bloody and tribal and bigoted as well. 

Religion is an institution of man, not God.   Spirituality and grace can, I believe, be attained without belonging to a religious tribe.   

It is beyond pathetic to drag up the ancient past.  It just does not apply to the world we live in.  Yes, there was brutality in the Old Testament and yes, Christians fought in the Crusades but only after started by Muslims running rampant over the world.

The most fervid Muslim-fearing preachers in the United States do not advocate killing Muslims or converting them by force. 

I don't know how you've been hurt by the Christian Church.  People in our church are far from perfect and we know it and are trying to love God and others. 

I hope you get the help you need.

[Jazzhead]

They [Muslims] will convert you to Islam if they have to cut off your head to do it.

They are brutal and will kill gays or infidels (when they are in charge and able to do so).  They dominate women and children completely.  They brainwash children.

They are good at seeming like nice people while infiltrating and then turning back to their true beliefs.

  People in our church are far from perfect and we know it and are trying to love God and others. 

I say you're full of crap.   Just read what you wrote - abject bigotry followed by your smiley-faced plea that you're "trying to love God and others". 

If you're a Christian than follow the teachings of Christ.   Love, not hate.   That's what the Man said.   

[INVAR]

I say you're full of crap.   Just read what you wrote - abject bigotry followed by your smiley-faced plea that you're "trying to love God and others". 

If you're a Christian than follow the teachings of Christ.   Love, not hate.   That's what the Man said.

It is so revealing to witness the willfully dismissive and Apologetic displays for Islam's actual tenets and behaviors and yet at the same time engage in vicious disparagement towards any declaration of truth from the Christian perspective that they pervert into an image of their own making.

Amusing to read admonitions to 'love' when they just displayed the opposite towards the faith that they are always at war with on this board.

[MOD4]

How did this thread get on the subject of Islam vs Christianity?  Two things:  Let's get back on the original topic, and secondly stop with the personal insults.  I am not going to itemize who's doing it, you know who you are. 

There won't be more warnings, just opportunities to enjoy some vacation time, on me.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

  The Islamofascists are big on that these days (and they kill far more Muslims than Christians), 

There is not a single day since Islam was founded that Islam has not been killing.  'These days' just means there is more information now on these atrocities than previously

but Christianity's history is bloody and tribal and bigoted as well. 

So how many times since you were born have you seen a Christian terrorist, especially one shouting 'God is Great' while on the killing spree?

[Cyber Liberty]

[Sanguine]

 

[DiogenesLamp]

I say you're full of crap.   Just read what you wrote - abject bigotry followed by your smiley-faced plea that you're "trying to love God and others". 

If you're a Christian than follow the teachings of Christ.   Love, not hate.   That's what the Man said.

I see your argument;  That you have friends and neighbors who are Muslim,  and that you don't want to believe anything which interferes with this relationship. 


You have adopted these people into your "Tribe",   and you will brook no disrespect for them. 


Like I said,  "Tribalism"  is inherent in human nature. 

[Jazzhead]

It is so revealing to witness the willfully dismissive and Apologetic displays for Islam's actual tenets and behaviors and yet at the same time engage in vicious disparagement towards any declaration of truth from the Christian perspective that they pervert into an image of their own making.

Amusing to read admonitions to 'love' when they just displayed the opposite towards the faith that they are always at war with on this board.

 I am not "apologizing" for Islam.   I am criticizing bigotry - in this case, directed at Islam.

[DiogenesLamp]

How did this thread get on the subject of Islam vs Christianity? 

Because the sanctity of life is the central tenet being discussed,  and the Islamic perspective is inherently at odds with this Judeo/Christian based concept. 


Let us not forget from whence many modern ideas of "morality"  derive.    Western morality derives from Christianity.   

[MOD4]

Because the sanctity of life is the central tenet being discussed,  and the Islamic perspective is inherently at odds with this Judeo/Christian based concept. 

I see your point, but virtually every issue discussed on this forum can conceivably be dragged down that hole, and I'd like to see this thread move away from the tribalism that seems to have become the topic.  It's leading to personal insults.

[Jazzhead]

How did this thread get on the subject of Islam vs Christianity? 

See roamer's post #198.   He responded to my support for family planning and contraceptives (as a means to reduce abortion) by suggesting that the use of family planning means we'll all be bowing to Mecca soon (because, as Emjay helpfully explained,  "Muslims breed like rabbits"). 

 Diogenes' post immediately above is pure tribalist nonsense.   A question for you, MOD4 - at what point in your view does anti-Muslim animus cross the line into bigotry?     

[INVAR]

Because the sanctity of life is the central tenet being discussed,  and the Islamic perspective is inherently at odds with this Judeo/Christian based concept. 


Let us not forget from whence many modern ideas of "morality"  derive.    Western morality derives from Christianity.

I see your point, but virtually every issue discussed on this forum can conceivably be dragged down that hole, and I'd like to see this thread move away from the tribalism that seems to have become the topic.  It's leading to personal insults.

If discussing such central tenets to the preservation and existence of liberty itself is seen as being 'dragged down that hole', and to be avoided out of fear of personal insults, a chilling effect to discussing core issues has been achieved.

At which point there really is no point to having any kind of 'Conservative discussion' beyond simple politics, politicians and culture while the principles that maintain this Constitution are verboten.  This is how a discussion forum dies and liberalism wins.

[MOD4]

See roamer's post #198.   He responded to my support for family planning and contraceptives (as a means to reduce abortion) by suggesting that the use of family planning means we'll all be bowing to Mecca soon (because, as Emjay helpfully explained,  "Muslims breed like rabbits"). 

 Diogenes' post immediately above is pure tribalist nonsense.   A question for you, MOD4 - at what point in your view does anti-Muslim animus cross the line into bigotry?     

That's above my pay grade.  My task is to keep threads on topic and stop personal attacks. 

[MOD3]

Mods don't do opinion. We do rules, with the rare act of mercy.

As a general observation, not aimed at you: If your method of arguing involves insulting the other person, you probably are not smart enough to be posting here.

[Emjay]

I can be crude.

When my niece told me she was pregnant again three months after having a daughter, she wailed, "People will think we're breeding like rabbits!"

I comforted her.  "No, they won't ... now, relax and get back to your burrow."

[DiogenesLamp]

 Diogenes' post immediately above is pure tribalist nonsense.   A question for you, MOD4 - at what point in your view does anti-Muslim animus cross the line into bigotry?     

Cue up censorship of "hate speech".   


You imply there is a "line"  to be crossed,   meaning a threshold at which it transitions from acceptable to unacceptable.   As with issues of morality,   these boundaries are all artificial and subjective,  meaning they are in the eye of the beholder and not universally shared among everyone...


...Which is exactly my point mentioned earlier in this thread.    "Morality"  is  not a single universal idea.   It means different things to different people,   but consensuses tends to coalesce around Religious or Philosophical thought. 



On a side note,  I don't think this thread is much longer for this world.  :)   

[MOD4]

@Jazzhead Please take the next few hours to contemplate a manner to argue that doesn't involve calling people names.

[Emjay]

I see your argument;  That you have friends and neighbors who are Muslim,  and that you don't want to believe anything which interferes with this relationship. 


You have adopted these people into your "Tribe",   and you will brook no disrespect for them. 


Like I said,  "Tribalism"  is inherent in human nature.

Hey, if anyone resents my saying that I am TRYING to love God and others .... sorry about that.  It's all I can do.

[musiclady]

I can be crude.

When my niece told me she was pregnant again three months after having a daughter, she wailed, "People will think we're breeding like rabbits!"

I comforted her.  "No, they won't ... now, relax and get back to your burrow."

I wouldn't call that "crude."

I would attribute that to your finely tuned sarcastic wit. @Emjay .

I hope she laughed.  ^-^

[Emjay]

I wouldn't call that "crude."

I would attribute that to your finely tuned sarcastic wit. @Emjay .

I hope she laughed.  ^-^

Thank you.  I was trying to introduce a little levity into this thread which had gotten mighty dark.

[musiclady]

Thank you.  I was trying to introduce a little levity into this thread which had gotten mighty dark.

It worked.

I laughed. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Thank you.  I was trying to introduce a little levity into this thread which had gotten mighty dark.

I laughed, too.

[Cripplecreek]

I wouldn't call that "crude."

I would attribute that to your finely tuned sarcastic wit. @Emjay .

I hope she laughed.  ^-^

Only 10 months between my sister and I.

[Bigun]

Or the Troll!