Gingrich: Surrender or fight - our country is at stake

[INVAR]

Thank God the future of this nation does not depend upon your ilk.  (just sayin)

Xena dear, the future of this nation is not dependent on whether we fight for and support politicians and their political agendas.

There are other things more important that need to be fought for and won first before politics has a remote chance of securing liberty for our posterity.

But thus far, those efforts are being rejected with increasing levels of hostility by a people who are not interested in them anymore.

Putting political band-aids on open cancer sores is not going to save the body.

[XenaLee]

Xena dear, the future of this nation is not dependent on whether we fight for and support politicians and their political agendas.

There are other things more important that need to be fought for and won first before politics has a remote chance of securing liberty for our posterity.

But thus far, those efforts are being rejected with increasing levels of hostility by a people who are not interested in them anymore.

Putting political band-aids on open cancer sores is not going to save the body.

Actually.... it is.   If the radical extremist left manages to regain power via their current attempts to do so by overturning last November's election.... or if they manage to cause conditions that spark the 2nd American Civil War, this nation is toast.  Sad that you can't or won't see that reality.

[INVAR]

Actually.... it is.   If the radical extremist left manages to regain power via their current attempts to do so by overturning last November's election.... or if they manage to cause conditions that spark the 2nd American Civil War, this nation is toast.  Sad that you can't or won't see that reality.

I'm sad that you are not recognizing that everything you want to accomplish or prevent is not going to come about via using politics in our current state as a people.  I'm sad you are not recognizing the root cause of how we got to this place to begin with.  You are never going to safeguard what you seek in the manner you are using.

The heart of the nation has been corrupted and this people are become wicked.  As Franklin himself said and warned, only a moral people are capable of freedom.  As nations become corrupt and vicious they will have need of being ruled - to be subjugated.

Since we refused to be governed by God, we will be ruled by the tyranny of men.

That reality is here. 

[XenaLee]

I'm sad that you are not recognizing that everything you want to accomplish or prevent is not going to come about via using politics in our current state as a people.  I'm sad you are not recognizing the root cause of how we got to this place to begin with.  You are never going to safeguard what you seek in the manner you are using.

The heart of the nation has been corrupted and this people are become wicked.  As Franklin himself said and warned, only a moral people are capable of freedom.  As nations become corrupt and vicious they will have need of being ruled - to be subjugated.

Since we refused to be governed by God, we will be ruled by the tyranny of men.

That reality is here.

So what, pray tell, is your solution?  To just sit back and let it fall?  To not even try to stop the radical left from achieving their agenda?   

I see a lot of condemnation of any rhetoric that spurs action against this leftist assault.... but I see virtually no suggestions or solutions to stop the leftist takeover.  You mention religion and God all the time, but you fail to mention what God may be wanting us to do about it.  Is that because you prefer to just let it happen?  If so, to that I say not just no.... but HELL no.

[roamer_1]

This goes beyond Trump himself or even the GOP. Many of those you see rioting and using intimidation tactics and violence ultimately want is to turn the US into a Cuba or Argentina, a "worker's paradise." What is upsetting them is Trump's election is a obstacle  in the road on their way to that. These are people who honestly believe the reason central control doesn't work is because "assholes were in charge of them before"(quoted from and Occupy Wall Street member).

It doesn't matter if it's Trump, Cruz, the ghost of Coolidge or Goldwater. The behaviors you are witnessing from the media and the radical left would be the same

That's all right.

But I am out of this game. I was taken out of this game. I have no stake in it. Should I rally with the national socialists to put down the communists?

I think not. To aid them is to lend them credence.
I cannot do that.

[geronl]

What is upsetting them is Trump's election is a obstacle  in the road on their way to that.

I don't think it is an obstacle to that, I think it is -as always- one side pretending to be two sides.

[geronl]

Actually.... it is.   If the radical extremist left manages to regain power via their current attempts to do so by overturning last November's election....

There is no mechanism to overturn the election. Protests, mean comments online and media sensationalism can't do anything to real national leaders.

According to Trump's biggest supporters he is the weakest President in the history of the world.

[geronl]

But those you see rioting and demanding impeachment of Trump

They have no power, there is no chance of impeachment unless Trump gets caught running the White House like he ran his business.

[LMAO]

That's all right.

But I am out of this game. I was taken out of this game. I have no stake in it. Should I rally with the national socialists to put down the communists?

I think not. To aid them is to lend them credence.
I cannot do that.

 You don't have to rally behind Trump to fight the left.

[INVAR]

You mention religion and God all the time, but you fail to mention what God may be wanting us to do about it. 

Repent.  II Chronicles 7:14 for starters.  Return to our heritage and revive a dying faith that would create a people that are governed by God.  But not even the churches are willing to that today.  So verse 13 of Chronicles 7 has to come first apparently.  Maybe in the suffering and misery of what is to come a people will return and repent to Him who gifted Liberty to us to begin with.

Once that happens the rest of what will be required to preserve and maintain liberty will follow.  But it will cost us more than this people are (at this stage) willing to risk and suffer.

A people who have rejected the only sure foundation that liberty can rest upon are not a people that can hold onto liberty or a Constitution.  Our Founders warned us of this.

But no one wants to hear any of that.  We are become exactly as Isaiah 30:10 describes a debased but proud people about to suffer consequences of their follies.

A totally righteous people will bring forth representatives that will uphold and maintain a morally righteous governance.

We are no longer those people.

Fix the people, we fix the politics.

Trying to do it in reverse assures our fate to the consequences we have already sown for ourselves but have yet to taste the full harvest of.

[geronl]

The left and the Trumplicans are mirror images, using the same non-standards, using the same tactics

[roamer_1]

You don't have to rally behind Trump to fight the left.

Of course not. Trump is the left.

[geronl]

Of course not. Trump is the left.

yep

[LMAO]

Ok, I give up

You guys win

[roamer_1]

Repent. 

Once that happens the rest of what will be required to preserve and maintain liberty will follow.  But it will cost us more than this people are (at this stage) willing to risk and suffer.

A people who have rejected the only sure foundation that liberty can rest upon are not a people that can hold onto liberty or a Constitution.  Our Founders warned us of this.

You're on a roll, @INVAR . How can one obtain liberty and deny the Author thereof?

Liberty has responsibilities. Freedom has consequences.

[XenaLee]

You don't have to rally behind Trump to fight the left.

Exactly.   It is mere coinkydence if I happen to be supporting Trump by fighting against the left.

[XenaLee]

There is no mechanism to overturn the election. Protests, mean comments online and media sensationalism can't do anything to real national leaders.

According to Trump's biggest supporters he is the weakest President in the history of the world.

Not the point.   The goal is to weaken him and his presidency to the point that they can regain power in Congress in 2018...  and their wet-dream to regain the WH in 2020.  You know that.  You know it damned well.   Yet you seem to pretend otherwise.

[XenaLee]

Repent.  II Chronicles 7:14 for starters.  Return to our heritage and revive a dying faith that would create a people that are governed by God.  But not even the churches are willing to that today.  So verse 13 of Chronicles 7 has to come first apparently.  Maybe in the suffering and misery of what is to come a people will return and repent to Him who gifted Liberty to us to begin with.

Once that happens the rest of what will be required to preserve and maintain liberty will follow.  But it will cost us more than this people are (at this stage) willing to risk and suffer.

A people who have rejected the only sure foundation that liberty can rest upon are not a people that can hold onto liberty or a Constitution.  Our Founders warned us of this.

But no one wants to hear any of that.  We are become exactly as Isaiah 30:10 describes a debased but proud people about to suffer consequences of their follies.

A totally righteous people will bring forth representatives that will uphold and maintain a morally righteous governance.

We are no longer those people.

Fix the people, we fix the politics.

Trying to do it in reverse assures our fate to the consequences we have already sown for ourselves but have yet to taste the full harvest of.

Repent?  That's your answer?   

[INVAR]

Repent?  That's your answer?

Yup.

That's the answer in terms of starting the long haul towards revival and recapturing a culture we have let slip away. An immoral people are incapable of liberty, because they are incapable of defining things anathema to it's existence.

Everything else attempted without national repentance happening first, is going to result in failure.

Were you aware that for over a decade that most sermons in the colonies were of that exact message before April 19, 1775?

There is plenty more history to back me up on that score if scripture does not suffice enough to convince.

[Doug Loss]

That's all right.

But I am out of this game. I was taken out of this game. I have no stake in it. Should I rally with the national socialists to put down the communists?

I think not. To aid them is to lend them credence.
I cannot do that.

If you really want to help, then help us gain an Article V convention.  That's the only way the feral government will be brought under control, short of a shooting war.  If you'd rather just moan like so many others on this board, go ahead, but please don't delude yourself into believing that it means anything to anyone.  I see lots of (as Mesaclone said) pharisaical preaching going on here, but very little serious thought given to how to take action to regain our country by those preachers.  Luckily, there are groups here (not here on this board, but in the US) that are working actively to address the problems we all face.  Those are the same groups that seem to drive our pharisees to their fainting couches.  I still look at the discussions here, but I make very few comments anymore as I see that both the Trumpenfaithful and the Trump-can't-do-anything-right-and-he's-a-big-poopy-head-ers want to do nothing more than shriek at each other.  Folks, your tantrums are getting very old.  The rest of us want to do something to regain our country; your constant screaming is a big waste of time.

[XenaLee]

Yup.

That's the answer in terms of starting the long haul towards revival and recapturing a culture we have let slip away. An immoral people are incapable of liberty, because they are incapable of defining things anathema to it's existence.

Everything else attempted without national repentance happening first, is going to result in failure.

Were you aware that for over a decade that most sermons in the colonies were of that exact message before April 19, 1775?

There is plenty more history to back me up on that score if scripture does not suffice enough to convince.

Excuse me, but that's not going to solve the current pressing issue of the anti-Christian radical left .... who either don't believe in God or who hate God...... trying to usurp our constitution, overturn our last election, and basically take over all government in order to run this nation as a "sans God/Christianity" communist nation.  You are deluded.

[roamer_1]

If you really want to help, then help us gain an Article V convention.  That's the only way the feral government will be brought under control, short of a shooting war.  If you'd rather just moan like so many others on this board, go ahead, but please don't delude yourself into believing that it means anything to anyone.  I see lots of (as Mesaclone said) pharisaical preaching going on here, but very little serious thought given to how to take action to regain our country by those preachers.  Luckily, there are groups here (not here on this board, but in the US) that are working actively to address the problems we all face.  Those are the same groups that seem to drive our pharisees to their fainting couches.  I still look at the discussions here, but I make very few comments anymore as I see that both the Trumpenfaithful and the Trump-can't-do-anything-right-and-he's-a-big-poopy-head-ers want to do nothing more than shriek at each other.  Folks, your tantrums are getting very old.  The rest of us want to do something to regain our country; your constant screaming is a big waste of time.

You have no idea what I do.
I am well used to being called a pharisee, and I don't faint easily.

Still and all, you will regain nothing without repentance.
All you will do is rearrange the deck chairs,

Thanks for your offer, but not the back-handed slap that came with it.
I have already been asked to participate in the article V movement, but in a much different way - Largely because of my activism and organizational skills on the ground in other venues.

I will tell you what I told her. Thanks, but I am busy enough with what I am doing now.

[Doug Loss]

You have no idea what I do.
I am well used to being called a pharisee, and I don't faint easily.

Still and all, you will regain nothing without repentance.
All you will do is rearrange the deck chairs,

Thanks for your offer, but not the back-handed slap that came with it.
I have already been asked to participate in the article V movement, but in a much different way - Largely because of my activism and organizational skills on the ground in other venues.

I will tell you what I told her. Thanks, but I am busy enough with what I am doing now.

I wasn't calling you a pharisee, but I can see how you could read what I wrote that way; sorry.  But what I said still stands.  Do whatever you think best, as will I.  But do make sure you do something more than just talk here, as so many limit themselves to.

[INVAR]

Excuse me, but that's not going to solve the current pressing issue of the anti-Christian radical left .... who either don't believe in God or who hate God...... trying to usurp our constitution, overturn our last election, and basically take over all government in order to run this nation as a "sans God/Christianity" communist nation.  You are deluded.

Then the Founders were too.

Did the words of Adams mean nothing when he said that our Constitution could only govern a religious and moral people?    Did Washington's words about the only foundation liberty could exist upon was morality, mean nothing?

We didn't arrive at this point of being a post Christian/Anti-God nation overnight.  We are not going to solve it overnight. 

Is the correlation of where we have arrived and the removal and rejection of God, the bible and morality from society somehow hidden in mystery?

We are not going to stop the Left at this point in time without bloodshed.  That much I can tell you.   We have arrived  at a point where half our population will soon be unwilling and unable to peaceably coexist with the other fractionalized half.

We cannot even agree on this very board what the definition of liberty is. 

There is no solving the current crisis outside of those means you declared delusional.