Author Topic: Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador  (Read 24789 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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And it seems to have everything to do with security for airliners, so people can better safely travel between countries.

If I didn't know any better, he may have planted this himself.
   


To see who leaked it?   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline EasyAce

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I think McMasters or Tillerson both in the room would not have let Trump reveal classified info...

My call:

* The president actually does get to decide what information he shares with foreign leaders,
classified or unclassified, with restrictions applicable only depending on the information's
source, which means . . .

* Assuming Donaldus Minimus did share classified information with Russia's foreign minister and
ambassador about ISIS, the question isn't the information in question.

* The question, instead, would seem to be---as the two Post reporters noted---the information
in question was obtained a) from another U.S. ally or its representative; and, b) if it came through
a highly-sensitive intelligence-sharing agreement, as the Post reporters suggest, whether the
or not the U.S. president had permission under that intel-share agreement to share it with particular
countries.

* If Russia was one of the countries the U.S. president was not permitted to share the
information with according to the conditions of the intel-share that produced it, Donaldus Minimus
in sharing it with Russia may have compromised a critical intelligence source, even one the U.S.
cannot afford to lose.

The key word is may. Hope that if he shared classified information with the Russian
representatives it was information not restricted by whatever intel-source share produced it.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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https://www.lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washington-posts-game-changing-story

Quote
First, this is not a question of “leaking classified information” or breaking a criminal law. Let’s dispense with one easy rabbit hole that a lot of people are likely to go down this evening: the President did not “leak” classified information in violation of law. He is allowed to do what he did. If anyone other than the President disclosed codeword intelligence to the Russians in such fashion, he’d likely be facing a long prison term. But Nixon’s infamous comment that “when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal” is actually true about some things. Classified information is one of them. The nature of the system is that the President gets to disclose what he wants.

Quote
Congress has alleged oath violations—albeit violations tied to criminal allegations or breaches of statutory obligations—all three times it has passed or considered seriously articles of impeachment against presidents: against Andrew Johnson (“unmindful of the high duties of his oath of office”), Richard Nixon (“contrary to his oath”), and Bill Clinton (“in violation of his constitutional oath”). Further, two of the three articles of impeachment against Nixon alleged no direct violation of the law. Instead, they concerned Nixon’s abuse of his power as President, which, like the President putting the nuclear codes on Twitter, is an offense that can only be committed by the President and has thus never been explicitly prohibited in criminal law.

There’s thus no reason why Congress couldn’t consider a grotesque violation of the President’s oath as a standalone basis for impeachment—a high crime and misdemeanor in and of itself. This is particularly plausible in a case like this, where the oath violation involves giving sensitive information to an adversary foreign power. That’s getting relatively close to the “treason” language in the impeachment clauses; it’s pretty easy to imagine a hybrid impeachment article alleging a violation of the oath in service of a hostile foreign power. So legally speaking, the matter could be very grave for Trump even though there is no criminal exposure.


Quote
Finally, Trump’s alleged screw-up with the Russians reveals yet again what we have learned many times in the last four months: The successful operation of our government assumes a minimally competent Chief Executive that we now lack. Everyone else in the Executive Branch can be disciplined or fired or worse when they screw up by, say, revealing classified information or lying about some important public policy issue. But the President cannot be fired; we are stuck with him for 3-1/2 more years unless he is impeached, which remains a long-shot.

The Post reports:

“It is all kind of shocking,” said a former senior U.S. official who is close to current administration officials. “Trump seems to be very reckless and doesn’t grasp the gravity of the things he’s dealing with, especially when it comes to intelligence and national security.”
Bottom line: It matters who we have running the most powerful institution in the world.

Offline Mesaclone

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Just as long as it is our guy doing it right? What would you be saying if Hillary had done it?

If Hillary had done it, we would never know as the press would completely ignore the event.

Further, the President decides with whom he shares classified intelligence...be they domestic or foreign, by unilaterally determining they have a need to know. But that's a moot point, because...as McMaster stated so clearly...it didn't happen.

This is just another effort by the media to add what they think is momentum to their effort to impugn and eventually impeach the president...without regard to truth or the integrity of their profession. Its a grotesque perversion of the role of the 4th estate in a Republic, and its the kind of reckless dishonesty that may yet lead to the collapse of our form of government. Democracy cannot survive without a press that is both free AND fair.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Democracy cannot survive without a press that is both free AND fair.



I have been pounding on this note for a long time,   but I can't seem to get the message through.   


The existing media system is completely under the control of liberal democrat partisans who have no intention of being fair to the opposition party.   


How do we remedy this monopoly problem? 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline Mesaclone

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https://www.lawfareblog.com/bombshell-initial-thoughts-washington-posts-game-changing-story

That 2nd quote may be the dumbest thing I've ever read. And my girl's forced me to read the Twilight books to them, so that's REALLY saying something.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 01:24:53 am by Mesaclone »
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read. And my girl's forced me to read the Twilight books to them, so that's REALLY saying something.

Have you found the Dem plants yet, mesaclone?

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Peter Baker‏Verified account @peterbakernyt

McMaster: “At no time were any intelligence sources or methods discussed.”

Dina Powell goes further: “This story is false." 

This fabrication from our media is another Washington insider flash mob hit against the President of the United States.  This should both infuriate and terrify us.

Offline Mesaclone

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Have you found the Dem plants yet, mesaclone?

"Plants" was never the right word. Mea Culpa. Allies and Facilitators on the other hand, are shoes the fit quite well.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Mesaclone

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I have been pounding on this note for a long time,   but I can't seem to get the message through.   


The existing media system is completely under the control of liberal democrat partisans who have no intention of being fair to the opposition party.   


How do we remedy this monopoly problem?

I'm doubtful that we can.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Online DCPatriot

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To see who leaked it?

That too, perhaps.  But he could come out looking a lot better as the People reject the media.

BUT>>>   here's the problem, the way I see it.

The Left are correct in assuming that  Donald Trump got every single vote possible for him, in the last election.

So...all they have to do in whip up...concentrate on the ones that stayed home last November.   Trump will have a hard time unless he can counter the sheer numbers that will turn out...not only in 2020, 2018.

All he can do is show up the media and continue speaking to the People...and let the economic and other accomplishments speak for themselves.
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline INVAR

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I find it fascinating that the same cretins who continue to have absolutely no problem with Hidlabeast's compromised E-mail server in her bathroom, Compromised Highly Classified Secrets in Pay-For-Play Foundation donations and all kinds of other assorted 'gifts' of intelligence and heavy weapons to ISIS and whomever else John F Student Kerry and Obama decided to award with concert performances by James Taylor - are the same morons screaming "IMPEACHMENT!" for Trump.

Because it's war - and hypocrisy is permissible in war.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I'm doubtful that we can.


Well,  the first thing we need to do is to get everyone to recognize that it's a serious problem that needs attention.   


Perhaps after that we can crowd source for potential solutions.     


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline XenaLee

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If Hillary had done it, we would never know as the press would completely ignore the event.

Further, the President decides with whom he shares classified intelligence...be they domestic or foreign, by unilaterally determining they have a need to know. But that's a moot point, because...as McMaster stated so clearly...it didn't happen.

This is just another effort by the media to add what they think is momentum to their effort to impugn and eventually impeach the president...without regard to truth or the integrity of their profession. Its a grotesque perversion of the role of the 4th estate in a Republic, and its the kind of reckless dishonesty that may yet lead to the collapse of our form of government. Democracy cannot survive without a press that is both free AND fair.

On the other hand.... it could backfire on the radical left (as it so often does whenever they over-reach).  Half of the rational, sane Americans will just continue to tune out the leftist lamestream media.   The other half may be getting just about mad enough (by now) to fight them.  Their ongoing campaign to bring down this administration has already become tedious and made folks weary.  And it's not even halfway through the first damned year yet.

As to their integrity.... they lost that decades ago.  This year just made it official.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline XenaLee

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I find it fascinating that the same cretins who continue to have absolutely no problem with Hidlabeast's compromised E-mail server in her bathroom, Compromised Highly Classified Secrets in Pay-For-Play Foundation donations and all kinds of other assorted 'gifts' of intelligence and heavy weapons to ISIS and whomever else John F Student Kerry and Obama decided to award with concert performances by James Taylor - are the same morons screaming "IMPEACHMENT!" for Trump.

Because it's war - and hypocrisy is permissible in war.

No, it's not permissible.   But hypocrisy is, always and as usual, expected from the radical American left.  This is a war with the intent to sway public opinion.  The morons will be swayed because.... well.... they're morons.  They can't help it and don't know any better.   Most of the folks that know this leftist "media" for what it is and what it has become (US version of Pravda) will continue to ignore and tune them out.  There are some, however, that are just strengthening their resolve to fight this little problem we have here in America.  And when the SHTF, I suspect that it will be dealt with.  Harshly.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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.@johnrobertsFox on report that @POTUS revealed classified info to Russia: "@WhiteHouse, frankly, is baffled as to how all of this got out."


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/864285518644879361

Looks like Fox thinks it's true.

Offline INVAR

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.@johnrobertsFox on report that @POTUS revealed classified info to Russia: "@WhiteHouse, frankly, is baffled as to how all of this got out."


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/864285518644879361

Looks like Fox thinks it's true.

Fox is about to become the new MSNBC given it's recent trek into darkness.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Restored

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President's cannot "reveal classified info". Once they reveal it, it is no longer classified. It's the nature of being Commander in Chief.

Secretaries of State can reveal classified info.
Countdown to Resignation

Offline Rivergirl

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Well, as long as he didn't reveal methods and sources, I feel soo much better.

Offline Mesaclone

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.@johnrobertsFox on report that @POTUS revealed classified info to Russia: "@WhiteHouse, frankly, is baffled as to how all of this got out."


https://twitter.com/FoxNews/status/864285518644879361

Looks like Fox thinks it's true.

What part of "it didn't happen" is unclear?

Multiple in-person witnesses confirming that affirmation...so who cares what anyone not in the room "thinks"?
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline Frank Cannon

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I see the daily dose of Fake News has all the #NT's frothing at the mouth. Fun to see all the MSM lapdogs here supporting their Beltway/Upper East Side buddies.

Online DCPatriot

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What part of "it didn't happen" is unclear?

Multiple in-person witnesses confirming that affirmation...so who cares what anyone not in the room "thinks"?

Perhaps, it's further evidence of the 'New and Improved' FOX, brought to you by the Murdoch Sons.

For, if the GOP loses FOX...   oy vey!   
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 02:53:51 am by DCPatriot »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline Victoria33

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In other words, if Trump did so as part of a strategic plan, he's entitled to do so as president.
@Oceander

He wouldn't know a "strategic plan" if it was labeled a "strategic plan" - in fact, someone would have to tell him what "strategic" meant.  While in that meeting, he bragged about getting great "intel", that he got great intel every day.

Offline Cripplecreek

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So a typical day in Trumplandia.  **nononono*

Offline Mesaclone

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@Oceander

He wouldn't know a "strategic plan" if it was labeled a "strategic plan" - in fact, someone would have to tell him what "strategic" meant.  While in that meeting, he bragged about getting great "intel", that he got great intel every day.

Of course. Lots of guys turn a million bucks into multiple billions without being able to think strategically. Happens all the time. That's why there's millions of billionaires.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain