House to vote Thursday on ObamaCare repeal...[updated...House Passes]

[corbe]

I probably am, but unqualified Trump hate is just the other side of the coin from unqualified Trump worship.  Neither attitude lets us view things dispassionately.

And I don't expect to like him but I am open to being pleased if he does something good.  That's all I have to say about that (Forrest Gump)

   I could not have said it more eloquently @Emjay and that's what makes this place so dynamic, the owner and the mods allow each end of the spectrum to hash it out, and more often than not, with respect for each other.

[corbe]

   @Frank Cannon ain't you got a GM to watch Rust, why you pickin on me?

[Mesaclone]

Sorry to say that some people on this board start every opinion with Trump hate.  It really has a negative effect on their ability to correctly assess reality.

I would almost venture to say that Trump hate has these people in such a vice that they look for evil instead of good if it can be used against Trump.

Trump is far from a perfect leader but to reject this bill because it is not perfect and because its flaws can be attributed (even unfairly) to Trump is just flat out crazy.

This is very true. You've got folks running to the board proclaiming "they told you so" every time some item on Trump's agenda has a setback...its just a ridiculous thing for anyone on our side of the aisle to do, but we see it repeatedly. Trump may not get a lot of things he wants, but the man is laying it on the line fighting to get every inch of conservative agenda he can pushed through. That's what his supporters expect...that he'll fight...not that he'll win every fight.

For too many years, we lacked a guy that would get in there and brawl with the Left and the Media. Now we have one, and though he's a bit obnoxious, has an ego the size of Texas, and is nobody's idea of smooth/diplomatic...the man is fighting for conservative ideals like Life, Lower Taxes, Tougher Immigration, National Defense, Peace through Strength, Fair Trade, Less business Regulation....and a host of other issues. For god's sakes, fight with him! Why any conservative/Republican would be doing anything but cheering him on at this point...is just beyond astounding.

OK, full repeal was not possible with the current number of moderate Republicans. That sucks. But we don't just take our ball and go home. Trump is getting what can be gotten...and will fight for the Phase 2 and 3 stuff as well. So we should all take the win, and keep working for more...because that is exactly what he is going to do.

[bolobaby]

The President has to work with the congress he has, not the one we wish he had. So yes, the nature of congress limits what is possible....they are what they are. That being the case, he must push them as far as they can be pushed...which is precisely what he has done. More is not possible. You can't turn lead to gold...with principle, political will or even balls. Lead is lead.

Ah, yes. Principle #1: Trump is never wrong. Gotcha.

Even when he praises this spending bill as a great success, Trump is right - it's congress's fault.

Tell you what: go look at how Reagan handled this situation and compare. Actually, don't. I already know the conclusion you will reach. Trump > Reagan.

[bolobaby]

Thank you for a good explanation of what the bill does and doesn't do.

I hope it passes.  I do believe it is... one:  a good first step, and two: maybe the best we can get right now.

That's what's wrong with you people: "maybe the best we can get right now."

It led us to Trump. It led us to the spending bill. It led us to this lipstick primed for the pig.

You'd rather not do what Reagan did during his first 100 days - stand up for what was right. Take the message to the people. Win them over. Then get something based on actual conservative principles passed.

Nope. Let's just settle for whatever the uniparty in Washington decides.

And, yes: you are my enemy. You are milquetoasts who are surrendering the battle of conservative ideas with a shrug and, "Oh, well... I guess that is what we can get. I'll swallow this turd sandwich and like it." I do not consider you on the same side as me at all.

[Mesaclone]

Ah, yes. Principle #1: Trump is never wrong. Gotcha.

Even when he praises this spending bill as a great success, Trump is right - it's congress's fault.

Tell you what: go look at how Reagan handled this situation and compare. Actually, don't. I already know the conclusion you will reach. Trump > Reagan.

He's been wrong many times I would imagine, as are all President's and human beings.  I lived through the Reagan era and know exactly what he did. Very different times, and very different tone and method within congress...so its just a terrible comparison.

I just love how some want to paint Trump's supporters as blindly loyal...which is just echoing liberal talking points. Its ridiculous, but some of you persist in it because its so much easier than engaging in an actual discussion of issues. Unfortunate. Rest assured, those like myself see his flaws clearly...as I saw Ronald Reagan's flaws back in the 80's We don't get perfect men to serve as presidents, but I'll take a flawed brawler at my side in a street fight any day of the week.

[corbe]

This is very true. You've got folks running to the board proclaiming "they told you so" every time some item on Trump's agenda has a setback...its just a ridiculous thing for anyone on our side of the aisle to do, but we see it repeatedly. Trump may not get a lot of things he wants, but the man is laying it on the line fighting to get every inch of conservative agenda he can pushed through. That's what his supporters expect...that he'll fight...not that he'll win every fight.

For too many years, we lacked a guy that would get in there and brawl with the Left and the Media. Now we have one, and though he's a bit obnoxious, has an ego the size of Texas, and is nobody's idea of smooth/diplomatic...the man is fighting for conservative ideals like Life, Lower Taxes, Tougher Immigration, National Defense, Peace through Strength, Fair Trade, Less business Regulation....and a host of other issues. For god's sakes, fight with him! Why any conservative/Republican would be doing anything but cheering him on at this point...is just beyond astounding.

OK, full repeal was not possible with the current number of moderate Republicans. That sucks. But we don't just take our ball and go home. Trump is getting what can be gotten...and will fight for the Phase 2 and 3 stuff as well. So we should all take the win, and keep working for more...because that is exactly what he is going to do.

   You keep using that word, Conservative, @Mesaclone  our definitions of it are apparently very different.   
   Sure, Trump has some achievements under that banner but how much of it derives from his political ideology and how much is just political expediency, I'll put 90% on the later.
   I'm grateful, anything's better than the hildebeast, I've been admonished for still fighting the campaign here, BUT that's where the REAL WRONG decision was made, so I'll go back to my Game.

[bolobaby]

You've got folks running to the board proclaiming "they told you so" every time some item on Trump's agenda has a setback...its just a ridiculous thing for anyone on our side of the aisle to do, but we see it repeatedly.

Think about what you just said. You see it repeatedly. Why? Because Trump is losing, almost every time. Gorsuch was a rare exception.

But why, then, "I told you so," and not, "Oh, man - why do we keep losing these things?"

Because many of us saw quite plainly that Trump stood for nothing, and therefore would not put up the actual fight required to, you know, WIN. He's rolling over because he doesn't care. For him, it's all about the Trump brand - nothing else.

Trump may not get a lot of things he wants, but the man is laying it on the line fighting to get every inch of conservative agenda he can pushed through.

Now that's funny right there - I don't care who you are. Thanks for the laugh.

[Frank Cannon]

   @Frank Cannon ain't you got a GM to watch Rust, why you pickin on me?

I read something about low hanging fruit or some such shit.

[bolobaby]

I just love how some want to paint Trump's supporters as blindly loyal...which is just echoing liberal talking points. Its ridiculous, but some of you persist in it because its so much easier than engaging in an actual discussion of issues. Unfortunate. Rest assured, those like myself see his flaws clearly...as I saw Ronald Reagan's flaws back in the 80's We don't get perfect men to serve as presidents, but I'll take a flawed brawler at my side in a street fight any day of the week.

Please point me to three posts of yours where you said, "Man, Trump screwed that one up!" Please point me to three posts from RIV where she says the same.

For every post you can provide, I will provide THREE where I have given Trump credit when credit was due.

Team Trump is blindly loyal and does not criticize Trump even for the BS spending bill, nor this rebranding of "the path to single payer."

[Mesaclone]

That's what's wrong with you people: "maybe the best we can get right now."

It led us to Trump. It led us to the spending bill. It led us to this lipstick primed for the pig.

You'd rather not do what Reagan did during his first 100 days - stand up for what was right. Take the message to the people. Win them over. Then get something based on actual conservative principles passed.

Nope. Let's just settle for whatever the uniparty in Washington decides.

And, yes: you are my enemy. You are milquetoasts who are surrendering the battle of conservative ideas with a shrug and, "Oh, well... I guess that is what we can get. I'll swallow this turd sandwich and like it." I do not consider you on the same side as me at all.

You must be too young to recall Reagan...the man was the master of compromise. The old 80% of what you want rule, which is precisely what Trump is undertaking now.  If you consider the rest of us as the enemy, you're a fool. If you want conservative ideas to prevail, be smart enough to look at the big picture...we move the ball to the right in inches, not yards, and being in a Republic we often have to use compromise as our leverage to create movement. It takes work, and its not glamorous one shot kind of transformation...but in a Republic you are limited by what you can gather public support to initiate. Standing on principle and telling everyone else to F off will feel good...and achieve nothing. Holding to principle while gathering consensus is harder...and requires some compromise, but is the only real option available short of tyranny.

[bolobaby]

You must be too young to recall Reagan...the man was the master of compromise. The old 80% of what you want rule, which is precisely what Trump is undertaking now.  If you consider the rest of us as the enemy, you're a fool. If you want conservative ideas to prevail, be smart enough to look at the big picture...we move the ball to the right in inches, not yards, and being in a Republic we often have to use compromise as our leverage to create movement. It takes work, and its not glamorous one shot kind of transformation...but in a Republic you are limited by what you can gather public support to initiate. Standing on principle and telling everyone else to F off will feel good...and achieve nothing. Holding to principle while gathering consensus is harder...and requires some compromise, but is the only real option available short of tyranny.

Newsflash. We have both chambers of Congress and the presidency. All we need is a strong leader to set the agenda.

But, what did I expect? I got exactly what I figured: Trump > Reagan.

I'm sick of you people.

[Sanguine]

I read something about low hanging fruit or some such shit.

Frank, you're looking unusually um......healthy this evening.

[corbe]

Frank, you're looking unusually um......healthy this evening.

    @Frank Cannon has better taste in Avatars than he does in Cars.......

[Frank Cannon]

Frank, you're looking unusually um......healthy this evening.

I don't know. I saw everyone putting up 80's sex symbol avatars so I figured I would too before I got Zotted.

[corbe]

   I never figured you for the paranoid type @Frank Cannon

[Mesaclone]

Think about what you just said. You see it repeatedly. Why? Because Trump is losing, almost every time. Gorsuch was a rare exception.

But why, then, "I told you so," and not, "Oh, man - why do we keep losing these things?"

Because many of us saw quite plainly that Trump stood for nothing, and therefore would not put up the actual fight required to, you know, WIN. He's rolling over because he doesn't care. For him, it's all about the Trump brand - nothing else.

Now that's funny right there - I don't care who you are. Thanks for the laugh.

The guy who you claim stood for nothing, has been carrying forward the conservative agenda while folks like you are snipping at his heels. He's barely been in office 3 months and has achieved all of the below and then some:

-Gorsuch
-Big drop in immigration flow
-Obamacare Repeal/Replace bill through the House (As of tomorrow)
-Signed an order reinstating the Mexico City Policy, which defunded International Planned Parenthood and other organizations that promote foreign abortions
-Signed two orders reviving consideration for the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipeline projects
-Signed a major executive order repealing several Obama-era environmental regulations unfavorable to coal.
-Signed an order which withdrew the United States from the globalist Trans-Pacific Partnership
-Launched an attack on Syrian airfield to chastize them for use of chemical weapons
-Re-established positive relations with Israel
-Signed an executive order that requires two federal regulations must be eliminated for every regulation created


The man is out there fighting for conservative causes and having real achievements like those listed above...with a congress that is softer than whale snot....and you're sniping at him because he hasn't been perfect in every way.

Wake up, climb down from your high horse, and get in the fight...you have a President leading the conservative charge and you seem to want only to undermine him.

[Frank Cannon]

   I never figured you for the paranoid type @Frank Cannon

Paranoid? I've been zotted here three times already. The first for telling Nancy to go to hell for wishing me a happy birthday, the second for telling an extremely racist Hungarian joke and the third for passing out drunk and leaving the refrigerator open and the milk on the counter.

I gotta tread lightly around here Jackson.

[Mesaclone]

Please point me to three posts of yours where you said, "Man, Trump screwed that one up!" Please point me to three posts from RIV where she says the same.

For every post you can provide, I will provide THREE where I have given Trump credit when credit was due.

Team Trump is blindly loyal and does not criticize Trump even for the BS spending bill, nor this rebranding of "the path to single payer."

There's many more than three, and feel free to do a search on your own...I have no desire to page through hundred and hundreds of posts to show you my disagreements with President Trump. You're a true idiot if you think Trump supporters are blindly loyal...you seem quick to see the mote in our eyes will missing the timber in your own...or simply to locked in to your own narrative to open your eyes.

[bolobaby]

Obamacare Repeal/Replace bill through the House (As of tomorrow)

I said it before and I'll say it again:

Bruce Jenner can call himself a woman all he wants. It doesn't make him a woman.

You can call this sh!tty bill "Repeal/Replace" all you want. It doesn't make it a repeal bill.

Ask yourself this simple question: will people still be getting free/highly subsidized health care after this bill is passed? (Hint: "Yes.")

Creating a $130B federal (slush) fund to cover "insurance" (ha!) for people with preexisting conditions is just a shell game of hiding the cost of the "free" stuff. This bill will not change the ENTITLEMENT that Obamacare created one frickin' bit. It just changes where the bill *seemingly* gets sent. They are pretending to send it to "the federal government."

Unfortunately, only democrats - and you - believe the federal government actually foots that bill.

Good job "repealing" that entitlement. Trump is a loser. Anyone who buys this "repeal" crap is a bigger loser.

[DCPatriot]

Newsflash. We have both chambers of Congress and the presidency. All we need is a strong leader to set the agenda.

But, what did I expect? I got exactly what I figured: Trump > Reagan.

I'm sick of you people.

 

[Free Vulcan]

They can pass it, but the bill is not economically viable. We need to quit the politics and make good policy.

[bolobaby]

Rule #2 in effect! The poor man's tweet!

[Frank Cannon]

Rule #2 in effect! The poor man's tweet!

Maybe his writing hand is tired.

[Emjay]

That's what's wrong with you people: "maybe the best we can get right now."

It led us to Trump. It led us to the spending bill. It led us to this lipstick primed for the pig.

You'd rather not do what Reagan did during his first 100 days - stand up for what was right. Take the message to the people. Win them over. Then get something based on actual conservative principles passed.

Nope. Let's just settle for whatever the uniparty in Washington decides.

And, yes: you are my enemy. You are milquetoasts who are surrendering the battle of conservative ideas with a shrug and, "Oh, well... I guess that is what we can get. I'll swallow this turd sandwich and like it." I do not consider you on the same side as me at all.

Well, sweetie, what do you suggest?  Perhaps we could just shoot out way out of this. 

I don't want to be on your side.  You are a negative person who seems to have forgotten that we cannot force congress critters to do what we want.

This bill is not perfect but it is good ... it does some good things and it is a start.  If you want to wait for a perfect bill, I suggest you find a comfortable chair.