Passengers ‘shaky and so disgusted’ as United forces screaming doctor off a plane

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I hope United is replaced by three or more new/existing carriers.  But the reality is United owns the gates and until the gates are taken away, United's bad behavior will continue to be rewarded.   

So the impact on this 'Boss Hogg' business model will be very limited.

how exactly will It 'be rewarded'? Continuing in business at reduced profit? That is their reward?

You do realize that replacing United with existing carriers reduces competition?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

I vote have them removed from the flight by airport security/LEO.

Now I know some will say this gives the flight crew the right to be complete dicks because they can arbitrarily declare anyone as "disruptive".  To some extent, it does, but I suspect there will be repercussions if they abuse this.  At least I hope so.  However...

Every minute spent arguing on the plane means that everyone on the plane gets to their destination later.  Some people will miss their connecting flights.  Other people who are not even on this flight may be delayed because this flight crew will arrive at the next airport late (even worse, crews can only "fly" so many hours a day, and I believe "fly" includes sitting on the ground).  Many others may be delayed if this flight is blocking the gate.

an airline had a captain he same as a ship.

These are the ones who have control over the ship.

This exists everywhere in the world and for a long, long time

[thackney]

United picked themselves to be losers.  There needs to be penalties here.

...A study released recently by MileCards.com shows that in 2016 Delta was the airline most likely to give passengers compensation due to overbooked flights. The airline paid out some form of compensation—usually flight vouchers or credits—to 10 passengers out of every 10,000.

United was second on the list, with compensation given to 7.2 out of every 10,000 passengers, followed by:

Southwest (5.9)
Spirit (5.4)
American (4.1)
Virgin America (3.0)
Alaska (2.9)
Frontier (1.4)
JetBlue (0.5)...

...According to the Department of Transportation, a total of 40,629 passengers were denied boarding involuntarily on domestic flights in 2016. That may sound like a lot, but it's a decline from 2015, when 43,704 passengers were bumped involuntarily. The airline with the most involuntary bumps last year was America's biggest domestic carrier, Southwest, with 14,979. Southwest also had one of the highest rates of involuntary bumps—0.99 for every 10,000 passengers, second only to the regional puddle-jumper carrier ExpressJet (1.51).

JetBlue actually had a relatively high involuntary bump rate—0.92 per 10,000 passengers, ninth highest out of America's top 12 airlines. This is because while JetBlue appears to overbook flights less often than others, when there were overbookings it was more likely to bump passengers against their will rather than offer compensation to those missing flights voluntarily. In 2016, JetBlue gave compensation for 1,705 voluntary bumps, while involuntarily bumping 3,176 passengers....

http://time.com/money/4734566/overbooked-flights-united-delta-jetblue-airlines-bumped/

[LonestarDream]

how exactly will It 'be rewarded'? Continuing in business at reduced profit? That is their reward?

You do realize that replacing United with existing carriers reduces competition?

No.  It increases competition.  Both by domestic and potentially foreign carriers. 

Breaks down the market power of bad actors by putting their gates/flight slots in play.

[LonestarDream]

That is an appalling rate.  Some of us value our time and like yourself find myself having to drive more than I would care too.

...According to the Department of Transportation, a total of 40,629 passengers were denied boarding involuntarily on domestic flights in 2016.

[LonestarDream]

@thackney .  Really appreciate the exchange of analytics with you.

Even we disagree.  Especially when we disagree.  More members , including me, get to learn interesting stuff.!!!!

[LonestarDream]

Dragged United Passenger Files Legal Action Over Forceful Deplaning


http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-12/dragged-united-passenger-files-legal-action-over-forceful-deplaning



As reported by Reuters, citing the risk of "serious prejudice" to their client, Dao's lawyers want United and the City of Chicago, which runs O'Hare International Airport, to preserve surveillance videos, cockpit voice recordings, passenger and crew lists, and other materials related to United Flight 3411.



Me:  If one precious second of video or testimony is missing , throw the book at United and their key officers!!!

Obstruction of Justice. 

[LonestarDream]

On Wednesday, Senator Chris Van Hollen, a Maryland Democrat, announced plans for the Customers Not Cargo Act, which would prohibit the forcible removal of passengers already aboard an aircraft "due to overbooking or airline staff seeking to fly as passengers."


Very catchy.  Too bad the Republicans did not get in front of this with targeted remedies.

My sincere fear is that the Donks are going to end up OWNING this issue.

[LonestarDream]

If the pubs were smart ( they aint), they would subpoena the ENTIRE United board to Congress and Ask why Munoz has not been fired.

They wont.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No.  It increases competition.  Both by domestic and potentially foreign carriers. 

Breaks down the market power of bad actors by putting their gates/flight slots in play.

wow, I found someone who believes decreasing the competition actually is more competitive.

Anybody agree with this outlandish statement?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No.  It increases competition.  Both by domestic and potentially foreign carriers. 

Breaks down the market power of bad actors by putting their gates/flight slots in play.

and how did you answer the rewaRd part oF this question, anyway?

[LonestarDream]

wow, I found someone who believes decreasing the competition actually is more competitive.

Anybody agree with this outlandish statement?

You are incorrectly stating my position.  My position is that four dominant carriers are too few.

The gates /slots have to be disgorged to make room for smaller carriers by market, new carriers or even foreign carriers ( but would not prefer the latter)

[IsailedawayfromFR]

You are incorrectly stating my position.  My position is that four dominant carriers are too few.

The gates /slots have to be disgorged to make room for smaller carriers by market, new carriers or even foreign carriers ( but would not prefer the latter)

and you go back and see what you stated and you will note you stated otherwise.

You are outlandish in your screaming nonsense of the travel industry.  How could one possibly believe what you say?

The market will take care of United's indiscretion in not what they did, but how they did it.

Your stance either enforces a govt mandate, a sure economic loser, or some idyllic frolicking in forcing everyone to pay more for travel by guaranteeing seat occupancy.

[LonestarDream]

The market cant, because there is no real market.  Anymore than bringing down long distance prices in 1975 during the era of AT&T.

That is why United can and does treat its customers like dirt.

http://www.untied.com/main.shtml

30,000 complaints.  Give United some real competition.  Recognize that the Continental merger was a mistake.
 

The market will take care of United's indiscretion in not what they did, but how they did it.

[Cyber Liberty]

The market cant, because there is no real market.  Anymore than bringing down long distance prices in 1975 during the era of AT&T.

That is why United can and does treat its customers like dirt.

http://www.untied.com/main.shtml

30,000 complaints.  Give United some real competition.  Recognize that the Continental merger was a mistake.

The market failed.  Interesting.

[LonestarDream]

The market failed.  Interesting.

Government restriction of the market is the failure mode. Apologies if my position above was not clear.  Make it easier for start up airlines.  Jet Blue and SW are not new airlines anymore. 

If a carrier is #4 in its market, release gates from the #1 carrier.  But most of all, make an example of United.   

[kevindavis007]

Here is what I seen..


1. No one at United got mad.


2. They (crew) were not standby, they were a "must ride". (Meaning that they had to get to that destination to operate a flight while maintaining FAA regulations due to weather impacting operations)


3. Whenever you purchase a ticket, you are agreeing to abide by the passenger agreements and CFRs.


4. He wasn't randomly chosen, the computer system used goes by who paid the cheapest ticket, whether or not luggage was checked, status, boarding priority, etc.


5. The flight wasn't originally oversold until the inbound crew encountered a missed connect due to weather impacting operations and legality issues which is why these 4 inflight personnels had to get onto this particular flight to avoid a cancellation of the morning flight as this particular flight from Chicago only flies once at 3pm.


6. He was asked numerous times to leave the aircraft by United officials, he leaves, changes his mind then decides to run past the gate agents back to the aircraft. At this point, he is classified as non-compliant and a security issue which is why law enforcement was called. This is post 9/11. That's a federal offense, you don't run onto an aircraft after being removed. Period. Point. Blank. Once the law gets involved, it is no longer United. That's Chicago O'hare Int'l Airport and Chicago PD. They told him numerous times to exit, nicely, and he didn't comply so there you have it.

[LonestarDream]

Lets check the facts, and the video tape...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dASATLLvGRM


Notice the contemporaneous outrage from the other passengers. 

[geronl]

Not only do they beat you up, then they assassinate your character

[LonestarDream]

Not only do they beat you up, then they assassinate your character

That is most pithy thing you have said.  Gotta be.

[Smokin Joe]

Not only do they beat you up, then they assassinate your character

Yep great folks. If those are "friendly skies", I'd rather walk.

[LonestarDream]

Yep great folks. If those are "friendly skies", I'd rather walk.

Dr Dao's Lawyer has asked for evidence to be preserved.  This is probably the most watched crime scene in history, with 550 Million viewers in China alone. 

Not to mention the rest of Asia.....

[EC]

30,000 complaints.

Wow.

Took a look at the complaints site. Yep, 30,000 complaints, going back to 1998 alright.

United flew 143 million passengers last year. Assuming they have been slowly increasing their market since 1998, it's pretty fair to give them an average of 100 million passengers per year for the period, giveing them nigh on 2 billion passengers.

2 billion passengers. 30,000 complaints. You do the math.

[LonestarDream]

Only a tiny percentage of the aggrieved would complain at that particular site.

In fact, did not even know about the site until now. 

And if it is so insignificant, why is United trying to shut down untied?

Wow.

Took a look at the complaints site. Yep, 30,000 complaints, going back to 1998 alright.

United flew 143 million passengers last year. Assuming they have been slowly increasing their market since 1998, it's pretty fair to give them an average of 100 million passengers per year for the period, giveing them nigh on 2 billion passengers.

2 billion passengers. 30,000 complaints. You do the math.

[txradioguy]

No matter what the Doc has done in his past...no matter whether  United has it in it's micro print on the ticket that they reserve the right to kick paying customers off a plane so the  can dead head a crew to it's next destination...they were wrong and will always be wrong in how they initially handled the situation and how badly their PR people have stumbled every step of the way since.

You don't treat people like that...period.