Passengers ‘shaky and so disgusted’ as United forces screaming doctor off a plane

[ABX]

 A guy sitting at an airport bar in Atlanta noticed a beautiful woman sitting next to him. He thought to himself, "Wow, she's so gorgeous she must be a flight attendant.

But which airline does she work for?" Hoping to gain her attention, he leaned towards her and uttered the Delta Slogan, "Love to fly and it shows?"

She gave him a blank, confused stare and he immediately thought to himself, "Nope, not Delta."

A moment later, another slogan popped into his head. He leaned towards her again, "Something special in the air?" She gave him the same confused look.

He mentally kicked himself, and scratched American Airlines off the list. Next he tried the Southwest slogan, "Low fares, nothing to hide?"

This time the woman savagely turned on him, "What the f*** do you want?"

The man smiled, then slumped back in his chair, and said.... "Ahhh, United Airlines!"

[Smokin Joe]

It also proves the doctor is ethically challenged and is inclined to be pulling a scam.

The Doctor (per the article you linked he was reinstated in 2015) got in trouble over over prescribing prescription drugs and involvement with a former co-worker who ratted him out after she left.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well, there is the option to reconsider how they bump passengers from flights, and do so before they actually get on the plane. If they made a group of passengers 'standby' instead of just overbooking, they'd be happy they got on, instead of pissed they got kicked off.

In this case, it wasn't overbooked, but they had a situation where they had to get a flight crew to another airport to crew a different flight.  According to @EC up thread, those kind of unplanned but necessary things sometimes happen.   So it sounds like they didn't know this was going to be necessary until after everyone had boarded.  And even if it was a ball being dropped somewhere, you still have to get off when asked.

It is possible that United could have handled this better with better planning.  But that doesn't remotely excuse -- in my opinion -- a passenger flatly refusing to deplane when ordered to do so.  To put it differently, United was within its legal rights to order him off the place, and call the cops if he refused to leave.   The passenger was not within his legal rights to refuse to deplane.

[Smokin Joe]

In this case, it wasn't overbooked, but they had a situation where they had to get a flight crew to another airport to crew a different flight.  According to @EC up thread, those kind of unplanned but necessary things sometimes happen.   So it sounds like they didn't know this was going to be necessary until after everyone had boarded.  And even if it was a ball being dropped somewhere, you still have to get off when asked.

It is possible that United could have handled this better with better planning.  But that doesn't remotely excuse -- in my opinion -- a passenger flatly refusing to deplane when ordered to do so.  To put it differently, United was within its legal rights to order him off the place, and call the cops if he refused to leave.   The passenger was not within his legal rights to refuse to deplane.

Well, if that's how it works, I'll keep driving.

[LonestarDream]

The reason that is relevant to some of us is that we see his behavior as irrational, and couldn't quite understand why he might have acted as he did.  This somewhat explains it.

This scenario is the perfect illustration of the overbooking scenario and the stealing of productive time from customers on an industrial scale.

United needs to have its gates taken away on the grounds of 'moral turpitude'.  Give customers a choice.  Asians who want access to other airlines would use United's former gates to more effectively compete with United-- on other carriers like SW, American or Jet Blue.  Or a start up.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The Doctor (per the article you linked he was reinstated in 2015) got in trouble over over prescribing prescription drugs and involvement with a former co-worker who ratted him out after she left.

C'mon, that's a rather sanitized version of what he did.  He groped a male patient, gave him lots of illegally prescribed drugs, hired him, then sexually harassed him after hiring him, all the while plying him with illegally prescribed drugs.  The guy quit, told his story, and the doctor was rightfully in deep kimchee.

This doctor is an absolute creep.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

United needs to have its gates taken away on the grounds of 'moral turpitude'. 

On what grounds?  The law expressly provides for the involuntary bumping of passengers, and even specifies the minimum amount that must be offered.  It even says that law enforcement may be called to remove noncompliant passengers.  They literally did exactly what they're allowed to do under the law.

How do you take away the legally-acquitted gates from a company that complied with the law?

[LonestarDream]

Good grief, did United retain the services of Roger Stone or something?

Pretty much looks that way.

[thackney]

To put it differently, United was within its legal rights to order him off the place, and call the cops if he refused to leave.

I suspect the next one will be handled differently, it it goes this far.  Such as loudly announcing:

"You will not be flying to your destination on this plane today.  If you will depart, the rest of the passengers will be able to do so.  Until then, we all sit."

The first couple times may have long waits, but once the word gets around, and the flight attendants are called away for a few minutes...

[Smokin Joe]

C'mon, that's a rather sanitized version of what he did.  He groped a male patient, gave him lots of illegally prescribed drugs, hired him, then sexually harassed him after hiring him, all the while plying him with illegally prescribed drugs.  The guy quit, told his story, and the doctor was rightfully in deep kimchee.

This doctor is an absolute creep.

I didn't see that in the article I read. Link that so the rest of us may be enlightened, please.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

I suspect the next one will be handled differently, it it goes this far.  Such as loudly announcing:

"You will not be flying to your destination on this plane today.  If you will depart, the rest of the passengers will be able to do so.  Until then, we all sit."

If the guy was willing to resist to the point of being dragged out forcibly, guilt isn't going to work.  He was going to stay there until that plane was in the air, or someone dragged him out by force.

The first couple times may have long waits, but once the word gets around, and the flight attendants are called away for a few minutes...

I'm not sure the old "blanket party" approach would really work here....

[catfish1957]

I suspect the next one will be handled differently, it it goes this far.  Such as loudly announcing:

"You will not be flying to your destination on this plane today.  If you will depart, the rest of the passengers will be able to do so.  Until then, we all sit."

The first couple times may have long waits, but once the word gets around, and the flight attendants are called away for a few minutes...

Would work in theory.  But from a business persepctive do you piss off 5 people or 150 people.

[ABX]

Bake the cake.

[LonestarDream]

Another update.

United Airlines now under federal investigation for the incident.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/united-airlines-is-now-facing-a-federal-investigation-after-that-video/

As they should be.  Take away United gates.  Two per month and give the gates to the competition.

[thackney]

Would work in theory.  But from a business persepctive do you piss off 5 people or 150 people.

I think the approach to use force to drag someone off the plane resulted in far more angry than those removed, or even on the whole plane.

It never should have gotten this far, but if the same point is reached again, I believe they would ask everyone off the plane before they would try to drag one out again in front of everyone else.

[Applewood]

As they should be.  Take away United gates.  Two per month and give the gates to the competition.

I think that punishment is a bit extreme.  Seems to me United will already be punished by the flying public through lost revenue -- passengers looking into alternatives to United for their travel.  And it's very possible, once these customers find a better alternative, they won't be coming back to United anytime soon. 

[LonestarDream]

On what grounds?  The law expressly provides for the involuntary bumping of passengers, and even specifies the minimum amount that must be offered.  It even says that law enforcement may be called to remove noncompliant passengers.  They literally did exactly what they're allowed to do under the law.

How do you take away the legally-acquitted gates from a company that complied with the law?

Anti- Trust .  Airlines have an effective monopoly, depending on the geography.

Many want to boycott .  Lets give folks an effective choice.  Thousands of customers are being bumped.  Otherwise, the dems will go back to 70s style regulation and prices will go up 5x.

And they will win this issue on pathos or the understandable sentiments of the public. 

United got called on their mis-treatment in this instance.  The character of this doctor (who has raised four out of five of his children to also be doctors.) is a quinary consideration or lower.

Yes @AbaraXas , this scenario has activated my libertarian DNA. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Well, if that's how it works, I'll keep driving.

Same here.  If the surly TSA agents don't piss you off, the airlines that act like they're doing you a favor by taking your money will.

[LonestarDream]

Was thinking the same thing. 

I think the approach to use force to drag someone off the plane resulted in far more angry than those removed, or even on the whole plane.

It never should have gotten this far, but if the same point is reached again, I believe they would ask everyone off the plane before they would try to drag one out again in front of everyone else.

[mystery-ak]

https://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2017/04/11/my-new-ad-campaign-for-united-airlines/

My New Ad Campaign for United Airlines

excerpt:

RUSH: with William in Bozeman, Montana, a pilot with United Airlines. William, great to have you on the program, sir. Hello.

CALLER: Hey, good morning, Mr. Limbaugh. Mega airline captain dittos from God’s country. How are you doing today?

RUSH: Very, very fine. Thank you. What aircraft do you fly?

CALLER: I fly for United Express, and I fly the Embraer 170 and 175 version.

RUSH: That’s the plane involved here, isn’t it? It was a United Express flight?

CALLER: It’s the exact same thing.

RUSH: Right, okay.

CALLER: My initial thoughts on this, Mr. Limbaugh, is that people have forgotten that flying is a privilege and that with that privilege there come rules. And these are rules that are set forth by FAA, by the Transportation Security Administration, by the airlines themselves, and we have multiple venues where you can see where these rules are posted. But people choose not to do that, and then when it comes down to the point that we as crew members have to enforce these rules, we look like the bad guy.

You notice in this YouTube video, this posting, whatever it is, that they don’t show this guy being noncompliant. ‘Cause I can guarantee you half a dozen times before he was removed from the aircraft, there were crew members, there were gate agents, there were people trying to tell him respectfully, “Sir, you need to remove yourself from the aircraft.”

RUSH: Well, the impression is that when they first approached him they beat him up.

CALLER: (laughing)

RUSH: I mean, that is the impression people are left with, is he was asked to leave, he refused to, so they beat him up and then he snuck back on and then they really got mad and dragged him — (crosstalk)

CALLER: — airplane post-9/11, Mr. Limbaugh, you’re gonna get hurt. I’m sorry, there’s gonna be a plane full of people that are not gonna put up with that anymore.

RUSH: It’s interesting to look at the video you cite, the one on YouTube. You have the people that videotaped it on their phones, which, questionable legality there, but nobody’s gonna get in trouble for it. You have a lot of people that just sat there and didn’t do anything and probably, as you say, just wish whatever was going on would end so they could leave. They want —

CALLER: Yeah.

RUSH: — to get where they were going. But you’re right, there isn’t any video of the guy being roughed up. People are speculating that he got bloody in the terminal somewhere after they removed him the first time, and then ended up dragging him out of there, his face bangs up against the seats. Speculating on how the guy’s mouth ended up bloody and so forth.

CALLER: Well, you know, and to be honest with you, Mr. Limbaugh, it comes down to the fact that there are rules. And as a crew member, as an airline captain, I don’t have a choice on whether or not I’m going to enforce these rules. There were four crew members — look at the Delta incident last week and the fact that we had three, four, five, six days of rolling chaos at Delta because we couldn’t get crews to where they needed to be. So we need to have those seats open for crew members —

RUSH: That was because weather in one hub, right, Atlanta caused all that —

CALLER: It was weather for a couple days in Atlanta and then I was flying in and out of LaGuardia on the Delta side last Thursday and Friday, and it was pretty brutal there too. So rolling chaos is what that is, but at the end of the day, we have to look at the bigger picture and we have to move crew members from point A to point B so that, like you said earlier, we can start tomorrow fresh with a fresh airplane, a fresh crew that’s well rested so that we can provide a service for eight, 10, 12 flights that are gonna be happening that the next day, which is going to impact hundreds, if not thousands, of passengers.

RUSH: Now, it looks like the United CEO or the United corporate is really focusing on the fact the passenger was belligerent and that, therefore, justifies or explains — once a passenger goes belligerent, gets unruly, that’s the end of tolerance, you get ’em out of there.

CALLER: You know, there’s kind of a little saying that noncompliance on the ground becomes a huge deal at altitude, right? When we sit there and we bring people on board and we’re gonna bring ’em up to seven miles above the earth and fly at four-fifths the speed of sound, there’s not a whole lot of — there’s virtually no tolerance at that point. If you’re going to make a big deal of something minor on the ground, who knows what’s gonna happen when you get in the air.

Who knows if you’re gonna order a beer from one of my flight attendants and now that’s just enough liquid courage that you’re now beating on the cockpit door. We have to take this stuff very, very seriously, because it has to do with the lives and the safety of the people on that aircraft and the lives and the safety of people who are on the ground. And it’s a zero-sum game. There is no tolerance.

RUSH: William, thank you. I’m out of time, but I appreciate that. That’s William from Bozeman, Montana. He’s a pilot for United, flies the same airplane involved in this episode.

[catfish1957]

I think the approach to use force to drag someone off the plane resulted in far more angry than those removed, or even on the whole plane.

It never should have gotten this far, but if the same point is reached again, I believe they would ask everyone off the plane before they would try to drag one out again in front of everyone else.

So you are on a business trip from Houston to Dallas, sit at the gate 2 hours, and miss that meeting?  Not so sure about that.

[Silver Pines]

Same here.  If the surly TSA agents don't piss you off, the airlines that act like they're doing you a favor by taking your money will.

@Cyber Liberty
@Smokin Joe

Third.  Dana Loesch went off on a great rant today, comparing the airlines bumping passengers to a restaurant manager coming to your table, pushing you off the chair, and eating your food.  Yet the airlines get away with it.

[LonestarDream]

That will be the next thing.  Take away all the phones and laptops- so the 'official' version is the only version.

Rush ought to be careful about condemning drug users 'at altitude'

Perhaps his flight 'privileges' are next.

[Applewood]

@mystery-ak

Flying is a "privilege?" 

It's that kind of attitude that results in lost customers.  While I get what William is saying, I don't think too many people would consider flying to be a privilege, at least not since 9/11

[LonestarDream]

So you are on a business trip from Houston to Dallas, sit at the gate 2 hours, and miss that meeting?  Not so sure about that.

@thackney  is right.  At least the United employees would have been spared the ire of the other fliers.