Passengers ‘shaky and so disgusted’ as United forces screaming doctor off a plane

[bolobaby]

So nice to see how quickly the press can dig up HIPAA protected medical information on this guy...

...but nothing on Hillary.

[EC]

So nice to see how quickly the press can dig up HIPAA protected medical information on this guy...

...but nothing on Hillary.

??

Felonies aren't HIPAA protected. Nor are they medical information.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

So nice to see how quickly the press can dig up HIPAA protected medical information on this guy...

...but nothing on Hillary.

It's not HIPAA protected information.  Public records on convictions, and likely the same with his license suspension.  HIPAA doesn't really protect specific information as much as it protects disclosure from/by certain sources of information.

[catfish1957]

So nice to see how quickly the press can dig up HIPAA protected medical information on this guy...

...but nothing on Hillary.

HIPPA is a patient for protection of patient information.  Not so much for the Doctors.

[mountaineer]

KY board of medical licensure documents here. HIPAA is irrelevant to these documents.

[Taxcontrol]

I flew Delta last week.   A horrible experience.   They have cut capacity down to the point they cannot recover if they have a disruption.   It was taking people some people 3 to 5 days extra to get home and Delta wasn't paying for hotels or food.

I am of the opinion that the fix for this is to change the involuntary bumping formula.
If bumped and arrive at your destination up to 1 hr late = no refund
arrive up to 2 hrs late = 50% of one way ticket price
for ever 2 hrs after = +50% of one way ticket price

For example - $200 one way / $400 round trip ticket
1 hr late after involuntary bump - 0$
2 hr late - $100
4 hr late - $200
6 hr late - $300
12 hrs - $600
etc
No limit or cap

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@jmyrlefuller

Good grief, did United retain the services of Roger Stone or something?

It is important to understand here that United was perfectly within its legal rights to do what they did -- bump him, ask him to leave, and call the cops to remove him involuntarily if he refused.  A lot of the outrage is ignoring that basic fact.

The problem for United is if they pussyfoot on this, they risk endorsing/encouraging a false public perception that you have the right to refuse to be bumped. And if people come to believe that, United would be buying themselves a whole boatload of future trouble from surly passengers refusing to move, and generating more of these incidents.  Maybe including by some people who hope to generate their own perceived six-figure windfall through physical resistance.

It is surely a public relations nightmare for them, and the CEO should probably do a better job of pointing out 1) the legal obligation to move if told to do so, and 2) the fact that they called the cops, and the cops handled this.

But they can't -- and shouldn't -- back off the idea that this guy was absolutely wrong for refusing to disembark when told to do so.  And if part of that PR battle is leaking that this guy is a bit shady...I can't blame them for that either.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

That's wrong.

So is that.

That's good, although it won't affect federal ED.  But assuming those things are corrected...we still need ED.

I agree ED is good if for essential public services.  But some are clearly not as essential as others.

Read up on the current legislation and see if you agree with it.

[thackney]

@jmyrlefuller

It is important to understand here that United was perfectly within its legal rights to do what they did -- bump him, ask him to leave, and call the cops to remove him involuntarily if he refused.  A lot of the outrage is ignoring that basic fact.

The problem for United is if they pussyfoot on this, they risk endorsing/encouraging a false public perception that you have the right to refuse to be bumped. And if people come to believe that, United would be buying themselves a whole boatload of future trouble from surly passengers refusing to move, and generating more of these incidents.  Maybe including by some people who hope to generate their own perceived six-figure windfall through physical resistance.

It is surely a public relations nightmare for them, and the CEO should probably do a better job of pointing out 1) the legal obligation to move if told to do so, and 2) the fact that they called the cops, and the cops handled this.

But they can't -- and shouldn't -- back off the idea that this guy was absolutely wrong for refusing to disembark when told to do so.  And if part of that PR battle is leaking that this guy is a bit shady...I can't blame them for that either.

This appears to be an event where nearly everyone involved, handled the situation badly:

Airline personnel allowing more passengers to board than could be flown.

Doctor throwing a childish temper-tantrum.

Cops rough handling passenger.

Stupid response from CEO...

[Cyber Liberty]

This appears to be an event where nearly everyone involved, handled the situation badly:

Airline personnel allowing more passengers to board than could be flown.

Doctor throwing a childish temper-tantrum.

Cops rough handling passenger.

Stupid response from CEO...

As a matter of general customer relations, kicking a paying customer off to seat company employees is bad form.  That's what United is paying for now, in terms of lost revenue and the beating they're taking in the stock market (it's pretty bad.  It's down almost 3% and has wiped out $600 Million from the total stock value).

[Polly Ticks]

As a matter of general customer relations, kicking a paying customer off to seat company employees is bad form.  That's what United is paying for now, in terms of lost revenue and the beating they're taking in the stock market (it's pretty bad.  It's down almost 3% and has wiped out $600 Million from the total stock value).

Just because it may be legal doesn't make it smart.

[Cyber Liberty]

Just because it may be legal doesn't make it smart.

'Zackly.  While the Dr. may have been a bit over the top with his screaming, United really stepped on their collective wanger on this, and deserve the punishment they're getting over it.

[EC]

As a matter of general customer relations, kicking a paying customer off to seat company employees is bad form.  That's what United is paying for now, in terms of lost revenue and the beating they're taking in the stock market (it's pretty bad.  It's down almost 3% and has wiped out $600 Million from the total stock value).

Except it wasn't just to seat company employees. It was to get needed crew to another airplane, so THAT plane could take off with it's full load of passengers. They weren't going on holiday.

[thackney]

As a matter of general customer relations, kicking a paying customer off to seat company employees is bad form.

  I accept that possibility buying a "discounted" ticket.  There are compensations offered.  But I think it is a really bad idea to let passengers board before making the decision they cannot fly on that flight.  Math isn't that hard.  If there are four seats needed and the plane is fully booked, four people should not get past the gate.  Handle the situation before boarding all.

[Victoria33]

But who did this guy give up his seat for? Why did they have preference over him?
I don't get it.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

There was a United flight team who had to be on the plane in order to get to the location of their next plane to carry passengers.  They had to be on that plane.

[Cyber Liberty]

Except it wasn't just to seat company employees. It was to get needed crew to another airplane, so THAT plane could take off with it's full load of passengers. They weren't going on holiday.

Then they should have boarded first.  They let customers board, then threw them off.  Never heard of an airline doing that.

If I were at the airline, I'd have found another way to get my flight crew to Louisville.  A chauffeur could have driven them there in a van (thus avoiding the "time working" rule) and it would have been cheaper than the $800 per passenger plus hotel cost.

[skeeter]

Which proves he is a doctor as said license has been reinstated. 
   
Perhaps it is time dig up dirt on the United CEO and his ENTIRE family.

Four out five of Dr Dao's five children surveyed are doctors!

It also proves the doctor is ethically challenged and is inclined to be pulling a scam.

[EC]

Then they should have boarded first.  They let customers board, then threw them off.  Never heard of an airline doing that.

If I were at the airline, I'd have found another way to get my flight crew to Louisville.  A chauffeur could have driven them there in a van (thus avoiding the "time working" rule) and it would have been cheaper than the $800 per passenger plus hotel cost.

Counts as time working. Time working starts at report, usually 45 - 60 minutes before the flight. Flight time starts the instant pushback starts (both have legal limits and are tracked) and stops when the plane door opens after landing.

[Cyber Liberty]

Counts as time working. Time working starts at report, usually 45 - 60 minutes before the flight. Flight time starts the instant pushback starts (both have legal limits and are tracked) and stops when the plane door opens after landing.

Riding in a van while somebody else drives counts as time working?

[Cyber Liberty]

It also proves the doctor is ethically challenged and is inclined to be pulling a scam.

That would explain the over-the-top screaming.

[EC]

Riding in a van while somebody else drives counts as time working?

Yep.

Plus, the four crew members will have been pulled from standby - which means their time working clock for the 24 hour period was already running (it's a fractional rate for standby) from whenever their standby started.

[ABX]

Another update.

United Airlines now under federal investigation for the incident.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/united-airlines-is-now-facing-a-federal-investigation-after-that-video/

[Smokin Joe]

Here's one. It broke on TMZ...

http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/04/11/david-dao-passenger-removed-united-flight-doctor-troubled-past/100318320/?hootPostID=d36ec6c0be57d7c0080839c4936d4285

Reinstated with restrictions in 2015.

[Cyber Liberty]

Yep.

Plus, the four crew members will have been pulled from standby - which means their time working clock for the 24 hour period was already running (it's a fractional rate for standby) from whenever their standby started.

That's pretty interesting, didn't know that's how they worked the clocks.  I always thought it started when they showed up at the plane they were going to fly.

I was once on a train that had issues getting to where it was supposed to, and they put the lot of us on a bus for the last 100 miles or so of our trip (but we were just civvies).  It's amusing to think about, because we were hours behind schedule when we got on the bus, but were on time by the time we got to the destination.  The bad PR for this has already cost them millions in the Stock Market.

[Smokin Joe]

@jmyrlefuller

It is important to understand here that United was perfectly within its legal rights to do what they did -- bump him, ask him to leave, and call the cops to remove him involuntarily if he refused.  A lot of the outrage is ignoring that basic fact.

The problem for United is if they pussyfoot on this, they risk endorsing/encouraging a false public perception that you have the right to refuse to be bumped. And if people come to believe that, United would be buying themselves a whole boatload of future trouble from surly passengers refusing to move, and generating more of these incidents.  Maybe including by some people who hope to generate their own perceived six-figure windfall through physical resistance.

It is surely a public relations nightmare for them, and the CEO should probably do a better job of pointing out 1) the legal obligation to move if told to do so, and 2) the fact that they called the cops, and the cops handled this.

But they can't -- and shouldn't -- back off the idea that this guy was absolutely wrong for refusing to disembark when told to do so.  And if part of that PR battle is leaking that this guy is a bit shady...I can't blame them for that either.

Well, there is the option to reconsider how they bump passengers from flights, and do so before they actually get on the plane. If they made a group of passengers 'standby' instead of just overbooking, they'd be happy they got on, instead of pissed they got kicked off.