Begun, The War On Conservatives Has (Shapiro)

[Smokin Joe]

Trump and Ryan gave conservatives a golden opportunity to be part of the solution,  and the Freedom Caucus demurred.

So it's logical to now tack to the center.

Politics isn't complicated - it's about the building of coalitions.   Conservatives need to decide if they want to be part of coalitions, or be outside the process on an island of ideological purity.   

Trump doesn't care about ideology - to his credit.   He sees that this country is a mess and wants to try to fix it.   If conservatives want to give him the back of their hand, the better to keep their self-righteous anger focused and their consciences clear, then so be it.   There are other deal partners out there.       

Didn't they e-mail you some new talking points today?

The voters gave those conservatives a mandate. Those Representatives work for the people in their home districts, not Trump, not Ryan. Conservatives didn't give Trump anything, some of them refused to vote for a piece of legislation. They were honest about that. Which is more than I can say for the rest of the Republicans in there. You do need to recalibrate, though. A tack to the 'center' would require a right turn, not a left. Maybe your compass is off.

[Oceander]

Trump and Ryan gave conservatives a golden opportunity to be part of the solution,  and the Freedom Caucus demurred.

So it's logical to now tack to the center.

Politics isn't complicated - it's about the building of coalitions.   Conservatives need to decide if they want to be part of coalitions, or be outside the process on an island of ideological purity.   

Trump doesn't care about ideology - to his credit.   He sees that this country is a mess and wants to try to fix it.   If conservatives want to give him the back of their hand, the better to keep their self-righteous anger focused and their consciences clear, then so be it.   There are other deal partners out there.         

Trump wants the fix things?  Only if by that you mean the same way Obama wanted to fix things. 

[Jazzhead]

Didn't they e-mail you some new talking points today?

The voters gave those conservatives a mandate. Those Representatives work for the people in their home districts, not Trump, not Ryan. Conservatives didn't give Trump anything, some of them refused to vote for a piece of legislation. They were honest about that. Which is more than I can say for the rest of the Republicans in there. You do need to recalibrate, though. A tack to the 'center' would require a right turn, not a left. Maybe your compass is off.

The voters didn't give conservatives a mandate,  they gave them an opportunity.   Conservatives have the opportunity - for the first time in many years - to join a united GOP caucus and pass legislation that a Republican President can sign.   But the Freedom Caucus won't deal.   They just want to say no.   They are professional obstructionists, no matter which party is in power.     

I offer no "talking points", only simple reality.   If the conservatives don't want the opportunity to govern, then the President will find other, more willing, coalition partners.   

[Smokin Joe]

The voters didn't give conservatives a mandate,  they gave them an opportunity.   Conservatives have the opportunity - for the first time in many years - to join a united GOP caucus and pass legislation that a Republican President can sign.   But the Freedom Caucus won't deal.   They just want to say no.   They are professional obstructionists, no matter which party is in power.     

I offer no "talking points", only simple reality.   If the conservatives don't want the opportunity to govern, then the President will find other, more willing, coalition partners.

First off, the president can sign (or not) whatever the Congress sends him. Congress just has to pass it first. I'm not a go along to get along kinda guy. I have been the only person in the room who was right before. Going along to get along would have had me put my OK on something that cost a client millions because they wouldn't listen, and had they listened, they would have had a fine oil well instead of a very expensive cement repository.
So, frankly, I couldn't care less what Trump wants, like it or not, now he's another employee, not the boss.
You and I , again, are going to disagree. You see the problem as the numbers game. The majority says the world is flat, you say the world is flat. Only no one told the planet about that.
Simple enough. Let the liberals move to the right for a change, they'll be glad they did.

[Jazzhead]

You and I , again, are going to disagree. You see the problem as the numbers game. The majority says the world is flat, you say the world is flat. Only no one told the planet about that.
Simple enough. Let the liberals move to the right for a change, they'll be glad they did.

What possible incentive do liberals have to move right?   Actually, you point up another aspect of the tremendous damage done to conservatism by the Freedom Caucus.  By causing the collapse of conservative health care reform, the FC has emboldened the left to stay unified in opposition.  The collapse of the AHCA represents a huge policy victory for liberals, and their strategy of resistance has paid off.

Again - conservatives have an opportunity that they can accept or kick to the curb.   They can choose to follow party leadership and be part of a GOP coalition that passes bills the President can sign, or they can continue their obstructionist ways as if there had never been a transformative Presidential election.   

[Cripplecreek]

First off, the president can sign (or not) whatever the Congress sends him. Congress just has to pass it first. I'm not a go along to get along kinda guy. I have been the only person in the room who was right before. Going along to get along would have had me put my OK on something that cost a client millions because they wouldn't listen, and had they listened, they would have had a fine oil well instead of a very expensive cement repository.
So, frankly, I couldn't care less what Trump wants, like it or not, now he's another employee, not the boss.
You and I , again, are going to disagree. You see the problem as the numbers game. The majority says the world is flat, you say the world is flat. Only no one told the planet about that.
Simple enough. Let the liberals move to the right for a change, they'll be glad they did.

Its not so much that most people are wrong as the people who are wrong are loud and ignorant.

[Smokin Joe]

What possible incentive do liberals have to move right?   Actually, you point up another aspect of the tremendous damage done to conservatism by the Freedom Caucus.  By causing the collapse of conservative health care reform, the FC has emboldened the left to stay unified in opposition.  The collapse of the AHCA represents a huge policy victory for liberals, and their strategy of resistance has paid off.

Again - conservatives have an opportunity that they can accept or kick to the curb.   They can choose to follow party leadership and be part of a GOP coalition that passes bills the President can sign, or they can continue their obstructionist ways as if there had never been a transformative Presidential election.   

Like I said, we're going to disagree.

You liberals (R) are missing a fine opportunity to step up to the plate and so America some good. Instead, you're attacking conservatives.
 
No wonder the liberals (D) are so emboldened.
Really, Chucky, is that you?

[libertybele]

The voters didn't give conservatives a mandate,  they gave them an opportunity.   Conservatives have the opportunity - for the first time in many years - to join a united GOP caucus and pass legislation that a Republican President can sign.   But the Freedom Caucus won't deal.   They just want to say no.   They are professional obstructionists, no matter which party is in power.     

I offer no "talking points", only simple reality.   If the conservatives don't want the opportunity to govern, then the President will find other, more willing, coalition partners.

Republican is obviously no longer synonymous with conservative.  The voters gave conservatives a mandate.  A united GOP caucus?  Definitely not.  Perhaps a united RINO caucus.  I see you've once again used liberal leftist mental midget talking points. The Freedom Caucus aren't obstructionists.  To try to push a bill through that doesn't fulfill promises made and panders to the left is what's wrong with Republicans. It is why Republicans may very well lose their majority in 2018. To keep the provision in the ACA that allows illegals to benefit and doesn't repeal is absolutely unacceptable and to chastise those who had some backbone and stood their ground is absurd, ridiculous and nothing more than liberal gutter speak.

Ryan should be repealed and replaced and the rest of the bozos that went along with him should be put on notice.

[HoustonSam]

Trump doesn't care about ideology - to his credit.   He sees that this country is a mess and wants to try to fix it.   If conservatives want to give him the back of their hand, the better to keep their self-righteous anger focused and their consciences clear, then so be it.   There are other deal partners out there.       

Ideology is simply a consistent understanding of right and wrong.  You're correct, Trump doesn't care about that.  He cares about being on the winning side and being seen as a winner himself.  If he can't be seen as a winner by working with conservatives to fulfill his promises, then he'll be seen as a winner by working with Democrats to break his promises.  The country be damned, it only matters that he be seen as a winner, and he'll switch sides if he has to in order to do that.

Government-as-Dealmaking is the reason my not-yet-born grandchildren already have a federal debt burden they will never be able to manage, and the reason that Washington DC is a wealthy city while towns from coast to coast are withering.  Fixing the problem doesn't mean finding willing deal partners, it means first defining the problem, and Reagan was right about what the problem is.  Trump never spoke a word during the campaign or since to suggest that he understands what the problem is, he just wants to be seen as maintaining the upper hand and getting his own way in a negotiation so that he can declare himself the winner.

[Jazzhead]

Like I said, we're going to disagree.

You liberals (R) are missing a fine opportunity to step up to the plate and so America some good. Instead, you're attacking conservatives.
 

I'm not attacking conservatives, I'm attacking the idiots in the Freedom Caucus, unwilling to say yes to conservative repair of the ACA.     We won't get this chance again.   

[Doug Loss]

I'm not attacking conservatives, I'm attacking the idiots in the Freedom Caucus, unwilling to say yes to conservative repair of the ACA.     We won't get this chance again.   

We didn't have it this time with the AHCA.  You do realize that the "three-step" plan was never actually going to be passed, right?

[Jazzhead]

We didn't have it this time with the AHCA.  You do realize that the "three-step" plan was never actually going to be passed, right?

Not if blindered conservatives won't let us get past the first step.   There is still some things that can be done on the regulatory side,  but the chance to block-grant Medicaid?   I don't see that opportunity arising again.   

[corbe]

I'm not attacking conservatives, I'm attacking the idiots in the Freedom Caucus

   Those so called idiots in the Freedom Caucus are the only real Conservatives in the House, This statement by you @Jazzhead is so devoid of anything but raw unadulterated BS that I wondered why you would even type it and then I realized it's opposite's day, so things we may think are smart are really stupid.

unwilling to say yes to conservative repair of the ACA.     We won't get this chance again.

   To the first part - Conservative repair of ACA?   Now that right there is funny I don't care who you are!

   Ryan has already said they are still working on it, we'll see another gallant attempt before Summer ends, IMHO.   

[INVAR]

I'm not attacking conservatives, I'm attacking the idiots in the Freedom Caucus, unwilling to say yes to conservative repair of the ACA.     We won't get this chance again.   

'We' nothing.  You're a Leftist/Communist by your own words.  You are not and have nothing to do with Conservatism outside of attacking it and pushing tyranny upon everyone and telling us all it's 'pragmatic Conservatism'.

It's nothing of the sort but pure unadulterated Communistic tyranny. 

[Jazzhead]

'We' nothing.  You're a Leftist/Communist by your own words.  You are not and have nothing to do with Conservatism outside of attacking it and pushing tyranny upon everyone and telling us all it's 'pragmatic Conservatism'.

It's nothing of the sort but pure unadulterated Communistic tyranny.

Stop huffing paint.  It's just not healthy.   

[corbe]

  projection there @Jazzhead

[Right_in_Virginia]

Republican is obviously no longer synonymous with conservative. 

Except for a fleeting period in the 1980's the Republican Party never was synonymous with conservatism.

This is why "RiNO" is such an asinine acronym. 

[Idaho_Cowboy]

I'm not attacking conservatives, I'm attacking the idiots in the Freedom Caucus, unwilling to say yes to conservative repair of the ACA.     We won't get this chance again.   

I thought it was already a done deal, a lost opportunity etc. Did the bluebird of happiness forget to take a dump in your cheerios this morning?

[INVAR]

Except for a fleeting period in the 1980's the Republican Party never was synonymous with conservatism.

This is why "RiNO" is such an asinine acronym.

I stopped huffing long enough to post that statement there I agree with wholeheartedly.

The GOP never was a Conservative party except that brief spat of time when Reagan made it so.

Which is why it is time for Conservatives to bolt the GOP and build an actual Conservative party.

[Doug Loss]

Not if blindered conservatives won't let us get past the first step.   There is still some things that can be done on the regulatory side,  but the chance to block-grant Medicaid?   I don't see that opportunity arising again.

It was never going to happen, even if conservatives rolled over and allowed this "first step" to pass, and you know it.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

   Those so called idiots in the Freedom Caucus are the only real Conservatives in the House, This statement by you @Jazzhead is so devoid of anything but raw unadulterated BS that I wondered why you would even type it and then I realized it's opposite's day, so things we may think are smart are really stupid.

   To the first part - Conservative repair of ACA?   Now that right there is funny I don't care who you are!

   Ryan has already said they are still working on it, we'll see another gallant attempt before Summer ends, IMHO.   

It's funny the way @Jazzhead thinks that the freedom caucus alone managed to stop this grand bill that only 17% of the country supported. Despite Rand Paul saying that it was DOA on arrival in the Senate. It's also funny the way he wants to give up on the first try as if we will never have a chance to work out a better solution. Liberals are so cute at that age. 

[corbe]

I stopped huffing long enough to post that statement there I agree with wholeheartedly.

The GOP never was a Conservative party except that brief spat of time when Reagan made it so.

Which is why it is time for Conservatives to bolt the GOP and build an actual Conservative party.

   Spot on @INVAR but I'd go back a little further to when Goldwater wrestled control of the GOP from those NE  Rockefeller Republicans (which Trump reminds me of).

[Bigun]

I stopped huffing long enough to post that statement there I agree with wholeheartedly.

The GOP never was a Conservative party except that brief spat of time when Reagan made it so.

Which is why it is time for Conservatives to bolt the GOP and build an actual Conservative party.

This conservative bolted the Republican party the exact moment they ran roughshod over their own rules at the latest national convention and I have no intention to ever return.

[Doug Loss]

Except for a fleeting period in the 1980's the Republican Party never was synonymous with conservatism.

This is why "RiNO" is such an asinine acronym.

True.  If you think about it, "RINO" should actually refer to us those Republicans who truly believe in their conservative principles and try to enact them.

[Bigun]

True.  If you think about it, "RINO" should actually refer to us those Republicans who truly believe in their conservative principles and try to enact them.

Call me a RINO then and I will wear the label with pride!  I long believed that the easiest path to a conservative party was to take over the republican party from within. I was wrong about that!