Trump accused the Freedom Caucus of 'saving' Obamacare. Its leader said it's not over.

[skeeter]

Scapegoat.

The only use the GOPe - and possibly our new president - has for conservatives.

What tha should tell everyone should be obvious.

[XenaLee]

@INVAR

How quaint.

When fighting a war do you fight the battle in front of you or do you fight the battle you wish it was? 
When driving and the oncoming semi crosses the center lane do you take evasive action or do you stay in your lane because you have the right of way?

There is a reason conservationism is losing and your post is a classic example.     You think that just because you think you're right that everyone will believe and fall in line.   Most kids coming out of our socialist schools these days don't even understand the concept of freedom or individual responsibility.

Sooo.....the answer is, in your world view, to just give up on conservative principles since they're not working or not popular enough currently?   Wow.   Good thing you (and others like you) weren't in control back during the founding of this nation.  Thank God, at least, for that.

[musiclady]

@Right_in_Virginia

I don't think I've seen anyone less likely to go on personal vendettas than @Sanguine.  Seriously, RIV.  She's fair no matter who she's posting to.

@Sanguine @CatherineofAragon

Truer words were ne'er spoken.

When you're flailing, you just flail, and never hit your mark. 

[driftdiver]

Sooo.....the answer is, in your world view, to just give up on conservative principles since they're not working or not popular enough currently?   Wow.   Good thing you (and others like you) weren't in control back during the founding of this nation.  Thank God, at least, for that.

@XenaLee
What exactly did they do when they were drafting the Constitution?  hmmmmm?      Did they all try to hit a home run and insist they get everything they wanted?   nope, if they had we wouldn't have the Constitution we have and probably would still be British subjects.

They compromised.   Each person fought to get what they wanted and got the best they could.   They didn't run home crying and act like insolent children.

So take your insults and cram it.

[musiclady]

We had two choices - Cruz or Trump.  Conservative or progressive.  This election was decided in the summer.

Indeed. 

And "we" chose personality over principles, so we ended up with a President who shares Hillary's view that single payer healthcare is what America needs.

[INVAR]

I heard that same kind of crap from Ross Perot voters.  Even after they managed to get Clinton elected, they would parade around in t-shirts saying, "Don't Blame Me, I voted for Perot."

Self-righteousness may be emotionally satisfying but it ain't that great a virtue.

Scripture disagrees with you.

And so do the Founders.

I stand in better company.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

@XenaLee
What exactly did they do when they were drafting the Constitution?  hmmmmm?      Did they all try to hit a home run and insist they get everything they wanted?   nope, if they had we wouldn't have the Constitution we have and probably would still be British subjects.

They compromised.   Each person fought to get what they wanted and got the best they could.   They didn't run home crying and act like insolent children.

So take your insults and cram it.

The Anti-federalist were willing to walk away if they didn't get a bill of rights.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Obamacare was a rather large step in the wrong direction. I'd like to see better than a minor shuffle back in the right direction.

So would I.  I want a complete repeal, and am probably more hardcore on entitlements than most.

But if there aren't the votes for that, I want the most conservative bill that can be passed, even if it is only a minor shuffle back in the right direction.  Maybe that's all there is, or maybe it succeeds in building momentum for more change subsequently.  But in either case, it is better than doing nothing and handing Democrats the argument that they're the only ones who can fix it.

[txradioguy]

The Anti-federalist were willing to walk away if they didn't get a bill of rights.

IIRC the Constitution wouldn't have been ratified without the Bill of Rights.

Not enough states would have voted in favor.

[mystery-ak]

I want the most conservative bill that can be passed

Exactly!

[Sanguine]

@XenaLee
What exactly did they do when they were drafting the Constitution?  hmmmmm?      Did they all try to hit a home run and insist they get everything they wanted?   nope, if they had we wouldn't have the Constitution we have and probably would still be British subjects.

They compromised.   Each person fought to get what they wanted and got the best they could.   They didn't run home crying and act like insolent children.

....

But, you have some foundational issues and some things you can compromise on.  It seems like many here want the conservatives to compromise everything.  (Which makes it not compromise)  No, everything should not be up for compromise.

[Cyber Liberty]

The problem we "idiots" have with half-steps is Congress always stops after the first one and calls it Done.  It's like trying to get a kid to stick to his spelling assignments:  He can't seem to understand why there is a new set of words every week.

[LMAO]

So would I.  I want a complete repeal, and am probably more hardcore on entitlements than most.

But if there aren't the votes for that, I want the most conservative bill that can be passed, even if it is only a minor shuffle back in the right direction.  Maybe that's all there is, or maybe it succeeds in building momentum for more change subsequently.  But in either case, it is better than doing nothing and handing Democrats the argument that they're the only ones who can fix it.

There's a difference between what one wants and what's achievable esp in politics.

Whatever one's position is, be they love what the Freedom Caucus did or at least tepidly support Ryan, the fact remains Obamacare in all of it's failing glory is still here.

[txradioguy]

The problem we "idiots" have with half-steps is Congress always stops after the first one and calls it Done.  It's like trying to get a kid to stick to his spelling assignments:  He can't seem to understand why there is a new set of words every week.

 

[Idaho_Cowboy]

So would I.  I want a complete repeal, and am probably more hardcore on entitlements than most.

But if there aren't the votes for that, I want the most conservative bill that can be passed, even if it is only a minor shuffle back in the right direction.  Maybe that's all there is, or maybe it succeeds in building momentum for more change subsequently.  But in either case, it is better than doing nothing and handing Democrats the argument that they're the only ones who can fix it.

Agreed. In the house we had the votes for repeal back in 2015. We ought to at least give it a chance and if the senate can't pass it we go back to the drawing board. From a negotiating standpoint I don't think this was a very strong opening move on Trump and Ryan's part.

We've got some time. I would have hoped that Trump and Ryan would have taken a back to the drawing board approach and go to work coming up with something that more than 17% of the country would like to see pass, and that covers more people than a straight up repeal. There's not reason this has to be the hill we all die on.

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee
What exactly did they do when they were drafting the Constitution?  hmmmmm?      Did they all try to hit a home run and insist they get everything they wanted?   nope, if they had we wouldn't have the Constitution we have and probably would still be British subjects.

They compromised.   Each person fought to get what they wanted and got the best they could.   They didn't run home crying and act like insolent children.

So take your insults and cram it.

First of all..... what insults???

Secondly, what compromises did our founders make in the Constitution?  Be specific.

[INVAR]

My "leftist stance" is to repeal the mandates to allow smaller employers the liberty to begin hiring again,  short-circuit an open-ended entitlement program by means of block grants to the states,  and create room in the federal government's budgeting baseline - by means of replacing subsidies with refundable tax credits - to create room for pro-growth tax reform.

Your Leftist stance on this issue is simply putting lipstick on a swine and calling it beautiful.

It is always a hallmark of a Leftist to massage the tyranny of Socialism into acceptability.

Principled Conservatives have no intention of getting along with or submitting to tyranny.  We intend to stop tyranny.  Cold.

Which engenders the hatred you exhibit for Conservatives.

[XenaLee]

But, you have some foundational issues and some things you can compromise on.  It seems like many here want the conservatives to compromise everything.  (Which makes it not compromise)  No, everything should not be up for compromise.

Agreed.

[musiclady]

But, you have some foundational issues and some things you can compromise on.  It seems like many here want the conservatives to compromise everything.  (Which makes it not compromise)  No, everything should not be up for compromise.

That's the problem with liberals.  They want conservatives to compromise all the time while they don't compromise at all.

Twas ever thus.

[INVAR]

Patrick Henry's declaration of 'Freedom or Death' is now considered childish and 'unrealistic' by a vast majority of those who self-identify as Conservatives these days.

We either oppose tyranny, or we submit to tyranny.

I read too many willing slaves nowadays who will justify submitting to much-promised but never seen lesser lash and the lighter yoke of government tyranny.

[driftdiver]

The Anti-federalist were willing to walk away if they didn't get a bill of rights.

@Idaho_Cowboy
And the others compromised and we got the Bill of Rights.   Thank you for proving my point.

Or are you trying to say they didn't compromise?

[driftdiver]

Patrick Henry's declaration of 'Freedom or Death' is now considered childish and 'unrealistic' by a vast majority of those who self-identify as Conservatives these days.

We either oppose tyranny, or we submit to tyranny.

I read too many willing slaves nowadays who will justify submitting to much-promised but never seen lesser lash and the lighter yoke of government tyranny.

OK you stand and fight and die.  Others will continue to fight the fight you won't.   

[LMAO]

Patrick Henry's declaration of 'Freedom or Death' is now considered childish and 'unrealistic' by a vast majority of those who self-identify as Conservatives these days.

We either oppose tyranny, or we submit to tyranny.

I read too many willing slaves nowadays who will justify submitting to much-promised but never seen lesser lash and the lighter yoke of government tyranny.

You also didn't have half the population getting some kind of government largess in Patrick Henry's days who would riot if that spigot is closed.

Eventually, math and the laws of economics will probably force major reductions in the size of government.

[Bigun]

Indeed. 

And "we" chose personality over principles, so we ended up with a President who shares Hillary's view that single payer healthcare is what America needs.

@musiclady

I'm pretty sure that was said by someone here over a year ago but I'm not interested enough now to go find it. The fact is that many of us KNEW what Trump is all along but hoped for the best after he was elected.  I'm still doing that rather than coming out with my told you so book.

[INVAR]

@Idaho_Cowboy
And the others compromised and we got the Bill of Rights.   Thank you for proving my point.

Or are you trying to say they didn't compromise?

They did not compromise over foundational principles.

They compromised over the issue of enumerating those rights and liberties that the federal government could not infringe upon.  The fight was over the demand that the core of liberty be enumerated and rendered untouchable versus those that believed that enumerating our rights would limit them to only those which were enumerated and open the rest for subjugation.

That was the argument.  There was no talk of compromise over surrendering liberty to central planners.

Which is all this argument over government-run health insurance is all about.