Author Topic: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right  (Read 24263 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #50 on: March 20, 2017, 06:45:27 pm »
As long as it says 'a right paid for by billionaires'

"Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fellow behind the tree."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2017, 06:49:59 pm »
Total horse shiiite.  'Broad-based taxes' my ass.   

According to ObamaCare, the Socialist entitlement you consistently defend and promote - EVERYONE is forced to have health insurance or suffer punishment. 

Offsetting the costs from the insured to broad-based taxes so everyone can bear the burden is utter bullshit when ObamaCare already imposes the broad-based "TAX" (Roberts) on those who do not have insurance along with the higher premiums (broad based 'tax') every single one of us WITH insurance now has to pay.

What you advocate is higher broad-based wealth redistribution on top of the bane of Obamanation that the ACA already is.

You advocate more Socialism, misery and stupidity.

Mythology and lies - your stock in trade.   

And for the record,  I am a critic, not a defender, of the ACA.   The ACHA, which I support, would do away with the mandate/taxes you foam at the mouth about, and would allow free riders to be punished by paying higher rates for insurance.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #52 on: March 20, 2017, 07:00:30 pm »
That tax burden would be offset by a reduction in your health insurance premiums.

Part of the new paradigm of electing Trump, is the realization by many, that "Little boys Have Cried Wolf" too often.

We already listened to the "your healthcare costs will be reduced by $2,500 per year" claims. (Along with keep your plan, and keep your doctor)

There is only so much room, for "middle men," in efficient systems. The fewer, the better.

Home maintenance and repair, works pretty well. Few people have insurance policies. They go to Home Depot or Lowes, get what they need and install it.

In that regard, we do not rely on government to direct our home maintenance and repairs.

But if we followed the health care model, we would utilize a big corporation to sell us insurance, and a big government to arrange and rearrange the entire industry every few years.

Eventually the overhead cost of so many middlemen crushes it in terms of cost, complexity and efficiency.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #53 on: March 20, 2017, 07:02:43 pm »
Mythology and lies - your stock in trade.

Says our resident Leftist/Communist sympathizer and advocate in nearly every post you make to this board.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

geronl

  • Guest
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #54 on: March 20, 2017, 07:07:09 pm »


and I have already seen posts that reference the need to pay off that middleman if he gets cut out. I say no way.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #55 on: March 20, 2017, 07:09:26 pm »
Home maintenance and repair, works pretty well. Few people have insurance policies. They go to Home Depot or Lowes, get what they need and install it.

In that regard, we do not rely on government to direct our home maintenance and repairs.

That's because the traditional purpose of insurance  - to protect against the risk of catastrophic, unexpected loss that cannot be budgeted for out-of-pocket - doesn't exist with respect to home maintenance and repair.

Health insurance is desired by most rational folks because health care expense can happen to anyone, and can lead to financial ruin.     

Quote
But if we followed the health care model, we would utilize a big corporation to sell us insurance, and a big government to arrange and rearrange the entire industry every few years.

Eventually the overhead cost of so many middlemen crushes it in terms of cost, complexity and efficiency.

You sound like an advocate for single payer.    There's a lot less overhead (and a lot less choice) in a single payer system. 

What I'm advocating is a hybrid system - single payer insurance, broadly supported by taxation, for catastrophes, and a competitive,  flexible and voluntary system of private insurance for routine and/or predictable medical costs.     
« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 07:11:00 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #56 on: March 20, 2017, 07:11:29 pm »
Says our resident Leftist/Communist sympathizer and advocate in nearly every post you make to this board.

Mythology and lies.
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #57 on: March 20, 2017, 07:33:13 pm »
Mythology and lies.

Oh no.  The board sees you for what you really are now.

No more hiding the fact that you are a Leftist.

You can call that lies and mythology all you like.

Your own words and posts reveal to everyone what you really are.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2017, 07:44:52 pm »
Oh no.  The board sees you for what you really are now.

No more hiding the fact that you are a Leftist.

You can call that lies and mythology all you like.

Your own words and posts reveal to everyone what you really are.

Of course my posts "reveal to everyone what I really am".  I'd sure hope so, anyway.  For those of you obsessed by labels, call me a pragmatic Republican,  who's moderate or conservative or even libertarian depending on the issue,  who insists on thinking for himself without being bound by ideology or mythology. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline INVAR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,961
  • Gender: Male
  • Dread To Tread
    • Sword At The Ready
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #59 on: March 20, 2017, 07:54:29 pm »
Of course my posts "reveal to everyone what I really am".  I'd sure hope so, anyway.  For those of you obsessed by labels, call me a pragmatic Republican,  who's moderate or conservative or even libertarian depending on the issue,  who insists on thinking for himself without being bound by ideology or mythology.
Your posts on nearly every issue you make a crusade about on this board - reveal you to be a Leftist/Communist Anti-biblical Liberal pretending to be a Conservative.

You are pragmatic only about things tilting Left and things anathema to Conservative and Christian principles.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Axeslinger

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,538
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #60 on: March 20, 2017, 08:00:03 pm »
@Jazzhead

Respectfully, I'll not call you anything except a damned fool.  One who is willing to give the government even MORE power and MORE of our money and MORE control over our lives when they have amply and completely demonstrated that they are utterly incapable of doing so responsibly. 

Trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity...and in this application (government) a technique used by useful idiots and power hungry ideologues.  Which are you?
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first." - Thomas Jefferson

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #61 on: March 20, 2017, 08:03:17 pm »

You sound like an advocate for single payer.   

Only to the extent of the consumer being the "single payer."

The additions of health insurance corporations, government involvement and lucrative lawsuits drove costs higher and higher.

Between my wife and my family our parents somehow managed to scrape together the means to pay for there eleven children's births, and raise them to adult hood without health insurance.

Two self-reliant self-employed people without four year college degrees, either. WWII combat wounded vets, I must add.

In about 2005 we paid cash for major female surgical procedures, for my wife. We were "self-insured," and I was an independent contractor.

I realized Americans and others have become "gibmedats," but I don't like it.

Leftists continually bemoan the unfairness of some people having little. To a large extent, it is because however little they obtain, they save nothing.

I should NOT have to subsidize people that refuse to save for their own financial need.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2017, 08:16:43 pm by truth_seeker »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #62 on: March 20, 2017, 08:25:02 pm »
@Jazzhead

Respectfully, I'll not call you anything except a damned fool.  One who is willing to give the government even MORE power and MORE of our money and MORE control over our lives when they have amply and completely demonstrated that they are utterly incapable of doing so responsibly. 

Trying the same thing over and over again expecting different results is the definition of insanity...and in this application (government) a technique used by useful idiots and power hungry ideologues.  Which are you?

The problem is, damned fools like that are doing their best to drag the rest of us to Hell with them.  It would be nice if, just once, he'd advocate a government policy that left everybody else alone, but no.

"Those who forget History are doomed to repeat it, but those who remember history are doomed by the bloody fools who don't."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #63 on: March 20, 2017, 08:36:50 pm »
The problem is, damned fools like that are doing their best to drag the rest of us to Hell with them.  It would be nice if, just once, he'd advocate a government policy that left everybody else alone, but no.


I favor the AHCA, which repeals the ACA's requirement that you purchase insurance or pay a tax, and that your employer provide you with insurance or pay a tax.  See?  You're left alone to be a free rider and a burden on your local hospital when you show up without insurance.    Unfortunately,  the law doesn't go far enough and let the hospital just leave you alone too.     
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Restored

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,659
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2017, 08:42:40 pm »
It's not going to be easy to tax people for health care because so many people don't pay income taxes. Unless you plan on a National Sales Tax, you won't get enough money. The ONLY way to generate that kind of money it to tax the "poor". That's where the money is.
Medicaid is already bankrupting states that expanded it and they pay a small percentage of it. Take a hint, America.
Countdown to Resignation

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #65 on: March 20, 2017, 08:42:55 pm »
I favor the AHCA, which repeals the ACA's requirement that you purchase insurance or pay a tax, and that your employer provide you with insurance or pay a tax.  See?  You're left alone to be a free rider and a burden on your local hospital when you show up without insurance.    Unfortunately,  the law doesn't go far enough and let the hospital just leave you alone too.   

You're already done such a good job of burying yourself under all the ridiculous claims of the wonders of government help, I no long believe you.  Sorry.  Your credibility is shot from months of claiming to be something you're obviously not. 

Good day, I have a dentist that needs visiting.  Much more pleasant.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2017, 08:43:03 pm »

Between my wife and my family our parents somehow managed to scrape together the means to pay for there eleven children's births, and raise them to adult hood without health insurance. 

Then you were damned lucky, if not a damned fool.   

Quote
  I should NOT have to subsidize people that refuse to save for their own financial need.

One cannot save for a catastrophic medical event.   And you are mistaken (the mildest word I can think of) that the poor lack virtue.   The community is, thankfully, less selfish than you.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2017, 08:46:49 pm »
It's not going to be easy to tax people for health care because so many people don't pay income taxes. Unless you plan on a National Sales Tax, you won't get enough money. The ONLY way to generate that kind of money it to tax the "poor". That's where the money is.
Medicaid is already bankrupting states that expanded it and they pay a small percentage of it. Take a hint, America.

Maybe you're on to something - use a sales tax or VAT or a tariff on imports.  Or just raise either or both FICA taxes on wages.    I have no problem whatsoever with the basic point you're making - income taxes are only paid by about half of us, if I recall correctly.   Something that's a benefit to the entire community should be paid for by the entire community.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2017, 08:48:23 pm »
Your credibility is shot from months of claiming to be something you're obviously not. 


I think for myself, without regard to ideology or mythology.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2017, 08:49:24 pm »
Maybe you're on to something - use a sales tax or VAT or a tariff on imports.  Or just raise either or both FICA taxes on wages.    I have no problem whatsoever with the basic point you're making - income taxes are only paid by about half of us, if I recall correctly.   Something that's a benefit to the entire community should be paid for by the entire community.

@Restored Did you see the way the eyes lit up when you suggested a new tax??   :laugh:  Just like a Holiday Tree!
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline driftdiver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,897
  • Gender: Male
  • I could eat it raw but why when I have fire
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2017, 08:49:51 pm »
Then you were damned lucky, if not a damned fool.   

One cannot save for a catastrophic medical event.   And you are mistaken (the mildest word I can think of) that the poor lack virtue.   The community is, thankfully, less selfish than you.

@truth_seeker @Jazzhead

Govt and the insurance companies are the problem.   Today a simple birth can easily cost $20,000 if everything goes right.   Slightest problem and you're easily looking at $100,000.   Perhaps you could pay that back at 1965 rates then but most people can't today.

Meanwhile the insurance company pays about $5000 for that normal birth, something most people COULD pay.   But you and I can't get that rate for paying cash.   

Govt isn't the solution, GOVT IS THE PROBLEM.  That and the lawyers who force the OB/GYN to pay half his income in insurance premiums.
Fools mock, tongues wag, babies cry and goats bleat.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 81,920
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2017, 08:51:06 pm »
I think for myself, without regard to ideology or mythology.

Why don't you explain to all us rubes what you mean by "mythology?"  You keep saying that, and I think it's high time you define it for us, otherwise it's just another Jazzhead weasel word.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

  • Technical
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,871
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2017, 08:54:09 pm »
Other sectors of the economy are able to bring costs down by cutting out the middle man.

The problem with our healthcare is that the US mandates a middle man. And every middle man you add adds to cost and overhead.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2017, 09:00:37 pm »
That tax burden would be offset by a reduction in your health insurance premiums.

Do you honestly believe we could provide more service than we do today for less cost, by passing that function through the federal government?

Really?
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Mark Cuban: Amend U.S. Constitution to Make Healthcare a Right
« Reply #74 on: March 20, 2017, 09:06:21 pm »
Then you were damned lucky, if not a damned fool.   

One cannot save for a catastrophic medical event.   And you are mistaken (the mildest word I can think of) that the poor lack virtue.   The community is, thankfully, less selfish than you.

On to name calling (again). I am just an ordinary guy that can remember when we had better people, instead of entitled gibmedats.

And poor people did not go without medical treatment.

You are part of the problem, an overeducated elite, who thinks that just one more adjustment, and socialism will be okay.

You have not commented on much substance, ie. the middlemen. The insurance companies and the government involvement.

Could that be that you are yourself a lawyer in employee benefits, giving you a vested interest in the status quo?

Ronald Reagan:

"Government is not a solution to our problem, government is the problem. ... Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them."

 
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln