Author Topic: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?  (Read 3813 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« on: March 14, 2017, 01:51:19 am »
When the .38 Special was offered to the shooting public back in 1898, smokeless powder was less than a generation old. And for a long time it was a caliber rather well thought of. Then, sometime in the 1960s, when so many other things changed, the .38 Special cartridge became something to look down upon, mock and even disrespect. Why? I guess in time all things traditional and functional become old hat and have to be tossed aside—later reevaluated and then reconsidered. But the .38 Special?

My thoughts on this came from testing the Hornady Critical Defense ammo in a .38 snubbie. It was an all-stainless S&W Model 60, a police trade-in backup gun. The recorded velocities were quite a bit under the ones listed on the box, which came as no surprise. But their tested terminal performance was interesting.

The 110-grain standard-pressure loads ran just under 1,000 fps, and the +P loads ran just over that mark. Before you snort in derision, that’s from a barrel just shy of two inches long. The standard-pressure FTX expanded and penetrated, although not to FBI satisfaction. The +P load expanded more and penetrated more. If you can handle the extra hassle of the muzzle blast, the performance bonus is worth it.

Let’s compare those to other compact carry guns—some .380s and some really short-barreled 9mms. First off, no .380 load in existence uses a bullet of 110 grains. The heaviest is 100, and you won’t find those 100-grainers leaving the muzzle over 800 fps. To break 800 fps and approach 850 in a compact .380, you have to settle for 95 grains of bullet weight.

A 9mm will match the 100-grain weight, even best it, with 115-grain bullets. However, a quick flip through my chrono logbook shows me that 115 is not a laser beam bullet out of a compact 9mm that you’d expect. Out of a three-inch barreled 9mm, 115s typically go the same speed that 110s do out of a snubbie revolver: just over 1,000 fps.

 http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/38-special-cartridge-comeback/#ixzz4bGFwGG8I
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 02:02:21 am »
The .38 never really left.

Mrs Joe and I each have one of these.
She likes it as a primary, I use mine as a Parka pocket pistol.
Light, hammerless, handles well. .38+P


https://www.championfirearms.com/Airweight-642-LADYSMITH-38-Special-P-163808-p/163808.htm
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Online Elderberry

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 02:02:47 am »
Bring it back?

I have 3. All 5 holers. Two S&W Model 36 and One Rossi.

Two have 3 in barrels. That's what I prefer.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 02:10:12 am by Elderberry »

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 02:41:27 am »
@txradioguy

I have a Ruger hammerless 38 P special with laser and hollowpoint cartridges.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 04:30:56 am »


I didn't know they'd broken up.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 04:31:13 am by Free Vulcan »
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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2017, 04:40:59 am »
I have a couple 38 Specials already. No reason to bring them back (if they even went anywhere in the first place).

What we need to bring back is the Midnight Special....


Offline montanajoe

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2017, 05:24:45 am »
Did not know it was gone..

Offline thackney

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2017, 12:16:39 pm »
I buy 38 spec for light shooting out of the 357 Mag.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2017, 12:49:31 pm »
I think for people of a certain age...the .38 special never went away...but for the 20 -30 somethings who have grown up on a steady diet of .380 and 9mm fired from a plastic Glock...the .38 has become something of a forgotten relic...as have most revolvers.

I'm looking at adding a .38 Special to my armory...RIA makes a great version of the Chief's Special...only downside is RIA recommends that you fire +P on a limited basis only.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2017, 12:54:07 pm »
That's what I liked about the S&W 642 airweight. Hammerless (nothing to catch on, can be fired from in a coat or parka pocket through the coat, if need be) and rated for .38+P. Nice little pistol. I bought one for the Mrs., and liked it so much I bought one for me, too.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Elderberry

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2017, 01:01:34 pm »
My Daughter has a 38, my youngest Son a semi, and my oldest Son, you name it he probly has it.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2017, 04:22:24 pm »
So with a .38 how important is it to have one that has the +P rating?  Are the velocities really that much more so that you need to make sure your snubbie is rated for the higher pressure ammo?
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 04:23:06 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2017, 04:32:43 pm »


I didn't know they'd broken up.

Oh God, please no,   they sucked.

Offline thackney

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2017, 04:39:13 pm »
Oh God, please no,   they sucked.

It is all about maintaining a proper grip on your revolver.

Just hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline driftdiver

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 04:39:50 pm »
So with a .38 how important is it to have one that has the +P rating?  Are the velocities really that much more so that you need to make sure your snubbie is rated for the higher pressure ammo?

@txradioguy
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm  SAMMI Specs for max chamber pressure

38 special chamber pressure is around 17,000 PSI
38 +p chamber pressure is around 18,500 PSI

I'm not an expert but I'd say it wouldn't matter if you had a modern firearm in good condition.   I wouldn't shoot +p ammo in something from 1920 though.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2017, 04:43:51 pm »
It is all about maintaining a proper grip on your revolver.

Just hold on loosely
But don't let go
If you cling too tightly
You're gonna lose control

 :silly:

Well played sir...well played!
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2017, 04:45:36 pm »
@txradioguy
http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm  SAMMI Specs for max chamber pressure

38 special chamber pressure is around 17,000 PSI
38 +p chamber pressure is around 18,500 PSI

I'm not an expert but I'd say it wouldn't matter if you had a modern firearm in good condition.   I wouldn't shoot +p ammo in something from 1920 though.

Yeah the one I'm looking at would be NIB.  But looking at the owners manual online and from doing research...Armscor recommends only "occasional" use of +P.

I've seen some tests to that shows some Hornaday .38 Special ammo performing as well as the +P stuff as far as penetration and expansion.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline thackney

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2017, 04:51:14 pm »
So with a .38 how important is it to have one that has the +P rating?  Are the velocities really that much more so that you need to make sure your snubbie is rated for the higher pressure ammo?

If you are using a snub nose, I think the +P rating is essential.  The velocities greatly drop from the 4 inch used to typically rate the ammo.

Testing was done with a S&W model 649 .357Mag with a standard 2.125″ barrel
http://www.yankeegunnuts.com/2012/07/30/38-special-ballistics-snubnose/





more comparisons at the link
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2017, 04:52:12 pm »
Hold on, loosely.

Online Elderberry

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 04:53:14 pm »
So with a .38 how important is it to have one that has the +P rating?  Are the velocities really that much more so that you need to make sure your snubbie is rated for the higher pressure ammo?
38 Special SAAMI is 17,000 psi
Plus P                 is 20,000 psi

I've heard that if your gun is steel framed you will be fine, Knowing a steady load of plus p will wear/loosen the gun sooner. Alloy frames?
I shoot plus p in my Model 36, but I practice with target loads.

Here's a site showing velocities for a lot of 38 ammo   http://www.ballistics101.com/38_special.php

Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2017, 04:55:48 pm »
I have the Ruger 5720 built on their SP101 platform.  It is chambered in .357 mag which can be harsh to shoot, especially at indoor ranges.  I calm it down a bit by running .38 spec through it. 


-- "Hammerless" - double-action only
-- 2.5 inch barrel
-- 25 ounces
-- .357 magnum (.38 special)

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Offline Lando Lincoln

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 05:17:25 pm »
I also have this exact model.  S&W 686.


-- .357 mag
-- 6" barrel
-- DA/SA
-- Weight: um... heavy

Just a beauty.  It really is.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 05:27:02 pm by Lando Lincoln »
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 07:32:12 pm »
I have the Ruger 5720 built on their SP101 platform.  It is chambered in .357 mag which can be harsh to shoot, especially at indoor ranges.  I calm it down a bit by running .38 spec through it. 


-- "Hammerless" - double-action only
-- 2.5 inch barrel
-- 25 ounces
-- .357 magnum (.38 special)

My wife just got the one with the hammer.  It's a tank.  And let me tell you that .357 round lets you know you're dealing with some man sized ammo that's for sure.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2017, 07:34:02 pm »
I also have this exact model.  S&W 686.


-- .357 mag
-- 6" barrel
-- DA/SA
-- Weight: um... heavy

Just a beauty.  It really is.


Wow...didn't know you were related to this guy

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Idiot

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Re: Should We Bring Back the .38 Special?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2017, 01:43:30 am »
When the .38 Special was offered to the shooting public back in 1898, smokeless powder was less than a generation old. And for a long time it was a caliber rather well thought of. Then, sometime in the 1960s, when so many other things changed, the .38 Special cartridge became something to look down upon, mock and even disrespect. Why? I guess in time all things traditional and functional become old hat and have to be tossed aside—later reevaluated and then reconsidered. But the .38 Special?

My thoughts on this came from testing the Hornady Critical Defense ammo in a .38 snubbie. It was an all-stainless S&W Model 60, a police trade-in backup gun. The recorded velocities were quite a bit under the ones listed on the box, which came as no surprise. But their tested terminal performance was interesting.

The 110-grain standard-pressure loads ran just under 1,000 fps, and the +P loads ran just over that mark. Before you snort in derision, that’s from a barrel just shy of two inches long. The standard-pressure FTX expanded and penetrated, although not to FBI satisfaction. The +P load expanded more and penetrated more. If you can handle the extra hassle of the muzzle blast, the performance bonus is worth it.

Let’s compare those to other compact carry guns—some .380s and some really short-barreled 9mms. First off, no .380 load in existence uses a bullet of 110 grains. The heaviest is 100, and you won’t find those 100-grainers leaving the muzzle over 800 fps. To break 800 fps and approach 850 in a compact .380, you have to settle for 95 grains of bullet weight.

A 9mm will match the 100-grain weight, even best it, with 115-grain bullets. However, a quick flip through my chrono logbook shows me that 115 is not a laser beam bullet out of a compact 9mm that you’d expect. Out of a three-inch barreled 9mm, 115s typically go the same speed that 110s do out of a snubbie revolver: just over 1,000 fps.

 http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammo/38-special-cartridge-comeback/#ixzz4bGFwGG8I
I have a S&W single action army in .38 special that I absolutely love.  Beautifully well made gun.