Author Topic: Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!  (Read 41968 times)

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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The problem is that when Trump lies about easily verifiable things like the drone strike tweet from yesterday, it yugely affects his credibility in other areas too.


No it doesn't.   Trump has established that "shooting from the hip"  imprecision is his  standard methodology,  so he's created the expectation that he won't be exactly correct on what he said,   but he will be in the ball field correct on it.   


This actually insulates him from mistaken utterances.    If he makes a minor error,  people will say,  "Oh,  that's just Trump."   

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Offline corbe

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No it doesn't.   Trump has established that "shooting from the hip"  imprecision is his  standard methodology,  so he's created the expectation that he won't be exactly correct on what he said,   but he will be in the ball field correct on it.   


This actually insulates him from mistaken utterances.    If he makes a minor error,  people will say,  "Oh,  that's just Trump."   



   Are you implying @DiogenesLamp that it is in Trump's best political interest to keep the 'bar low' so as to not be taken serious?
   If so, it is positively brilliant in a 6 dimensional chess kind of way /s 
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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No it doesn't.   Trump has established that "shooting from the hip"  imprecision is his  standard methodology,  so he's created the expectation that he won't be exactly correct on what he said,   but he will be in the ball field correct on it.   


This actually insulates him from mistaken utterances.    If he makes a minor error,  people will say,  "Oh,  that's just Trump."

Wow, that wouldn't work with me.  I expect a President to act like one.  Those aren't minor errors.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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   Are you implying @DiogenesLamp that it is in Trump's best political interest to keep the 'bar low' so as to not be taken serious?


No,  that is a straw-man interpretation of what I said.   


A closer analogy is that Trump uses his words,  his mannerisms,  and his actions as stealth missiles that appear to be vague in their definition,   but coalesce into a destructive force that hits the target anyway,  despite the best efforts of the enemy to shoot them down. 


He controls what is being talked about,  even through people focusing on his mistakes or imprecision.   


I am reminded of the Hollywood adage,  "there is no such thing as bad press."   Trump has turned that into an art form regarding issues of interest to him.   




   If so, it is positively brilliant in a 6 dimensional chess kind of way /s


That part you got right,  except for the "/s".   

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Offline DiogenesLamp

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‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline XenaLee

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@Cripplecreek

Exactly right.  But now I'm supposed to take him at his word and fall all over him the way Hannity did?  Not a chance.

Hannity is a lost cause.  I haven't tuned in to him (tv or radio) since the primary.  Don't plan to ever again. 
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline XenaLee

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No,  that is a straw-man interpretation of what I said.   


A closer analogy is that Trump uses his words,  his mannerisms,  and his actions as stealth missiles that appear to be vague in their definition,   but coalesce into a destructive force that hits the target anyway,  despite the best efforts of the enemy to shoot them down. 


He controls what is being talked about,  even through people focusing on his mistakes or imprecision.   


I am reminded of the Hollywood adage,  "there is no such thing as bad press."   Trump has turned that into an art form regarding issues of interest to him.   




That part you got right,  except for the "/s".

I especially love how he now has the New York Slimes contradicting their own previous ""reporting"".  It's priceless.  And people (lots of) are now laughing out loud at them.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Offline musiclady

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@XenaLee

I don't believe he will, either.  His past support of universal health care probably has him thinking there are no problems with the plan.

From past experience, what are the chances that he has even a clue as to what's in the plan?

I guess people want to forget that he supports government control of health care, as well as his self-confessed "I don't read" problem, when they act confused about this "wonderful" bill.

@CatherineofAragon
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 07:39:43 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

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Offline Victoria33

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The conservative estimate is thousands.
@txradioguy
@CatherineofAragon

Just before Bob started working in the Intelligence Dept. of the Pentagon, someone outed our agents abroad and most of them were killed.  The Dept. had to recruit new agents.  I don't know what info. now was given out by Wickileaks, but if it puts our agents in danger, Assange needs to be taken out anyway that can happen.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 07:41:00 pm by Victoria33 »

Offline musiclady

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You aren't the target audience.

Do you mean that only stupid people are the target audience? 
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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I especially love how he now has the New York Slimes contradicting their own previous ""reporting"".  It's priceless.  And people (lots of) are now laughing out loud at them.


Somehow that guy just keeps blundering into success.   He's like "Inspector Clouseau. "






Yes,  it is funny how they now have to back track on "The Russians met with Trump Associates"   because this reinforces the "Obama was wiretapping Trump"  claim. 


I've read some people claiming the New York Times is actually deleting some of it's previous stories from it's website because they support the wiretapping claim.   


:) 
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline XenaLee

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Somehow that guy just keeps blundering into success.   He's like "Inspector Clouseau. "






Yes,  it is funny how they now have to back track on "The Russians met with Trump Associates"   because this reinforces the "Obama was wiretapping Trump"  claim. 


I've read some people claiming the New York Times is actually deleting some of it's previous stories from it's website because they support the wiretapping claim.   


:)

I guess it's a darn good thing that 'some' people know how to do a screenshot and even a "save to .pdf" file via a pdf creation program...lolol.

Once it's on the internet, it's there for EVER!
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

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Offline txradioguy

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@txradioguy
@CatherineofAragon

Just before Bob started working in the Intelligence Dept. of the Pentagon, someone outed our agents abroad and most of them were killed.  The Dept. had to recruit new agents.  I don't know what info. now was given out by Wickileaks, but if it puts our agents in danger, Assange needs to be taken out anyway that can happen.

@Victoria33 we knew for certain when I was in Afghanistan in 2010-11 that the Taliban had downloaded the WikiLeaks dump and were sussing through the data to out the rats in their midst.  We had sources completely dry up and/or refuse to deal with us out of fear for their lives and that of their family.  Taliban works like the Mob...they don't just kill you...they get your wife your kids your parents your cousins...you get the picture.

Assange and company made our lives and our jobs much harder.  I mean it was bad enough that we had a POTUS outing our CIA station chief in Pakistan and putting a target on the backs of the SEALS that killed Bin Laden...WikiLeaks just made a bad situation worse and vice versa
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline XenaLee

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@txradioguy
@CatherineofAragon

Just before Bob started working in the Intelligence Dept. of the Pentagon, someone outed our agents abroad and most of them were killed.  The Dept. had to recruit new agents.  I don't know what info. now was given out by Wickileaks, but if it puts our agents in danger, Assange needs to be taken out anyway that can happen.

And Assange isn't the only one re: that.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Do you mean that only stupid people are the target audience?


It is unfair to characterize them as "stupid."   They just don't have an obsession with politics the way we political junkies do.   


Let me give you an example of what I mean by the "target audience."    In the 2016 election,  California was not the target audience.   Everyone knew that it was going to go for Hillary,   so Trump didn't waste any time or much money trying to win that State.   He would never manage it,  no matter how hard he tried,  so he didn't. 


Instead he mapped out a path among states that it was possible for him to win,  and he spent the bulk of his campaign money,   and his campaign presence in those states that mattered to his winning the presidency.   Hillary and company are still bitching about how he didn't win the "popular vote."   Well he didn't need to win the popular vote,  because elections are decided by the electoral vote.   He went straight for the target he needed.   Those states were his target audience. 
   


Regarding issues of the day,   the "target audience"  are those people who might be persuaded;  Those who are either rabid Democrats or rabid Republicans.   They are what we would normally call "the mushy middle."   People who don't keep up with politics closely,  but who's attention can be drawn to issues occasionally.   


These are the people he needs to reach,  because he already has most of the Republicans,  and he's not going to get the core constituency of the Democrats no matter what he does.   


He just needs to carve out the 10% or so in the very middle of the political spectrum,  and then he can get his agenda through. 


   
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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@Victoria33 we knew for certain when I was in Afghanistan in 2010-11 that the Taliban had downloaded the WikiLeaks dump and were sussing through the data to out the rats in their midst.  We had sources completely dry up and/or refuse to deal with us out of fear for their lives and that of their family.  Taliban works like the Mob...they don't just kill you...they get your wife your kids your parents your cousins...you get the picture.

Assange and company made our lives and our jobs much harder.  I mean it was bad enough that we had a POTUS outing our CIA station chief in Pakistan and putting a target on the backs of the SEALS that killed Bin Laden...WikiLeaks just made a bad situation worse and vice versa


I was all in favor of killing him and destroying his organization back then.    He has moved the scale slightly back in the other direction for me,   but I still think he should be made to answer for the consequences of what he has done. 

Yes,  his release of information got innocent people killed.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline txradioguy

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I was all in favor of killing him and destroying his organization back then.    He has moved the scale slightly back in the other direction for me,   but I still think he should be made to answer for the consequences of what he has done. 

Yes,  his release of information got innocent people killed.

And that really is why we should give what he says a wide berth.  The more people fawn over his latest alleged document dump, the more credibility is given to him and the more it insulates him from seeing the kind of justice that needs to be served on him.  At some point it runs the risk of turning him into a Martyr and he doesn't need that kind of status anymore than your local suicide bomber needs or deserves it.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Emjay

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Wow, that wouldn't work with me.  I expect a President to act like one.  Those aren't minor errors.

Expect all you want.  You expect a President to act like one?  Which one?  We've had 45.  I'd love one who acted like Reagan.  I'd hate one who acted like Barack Hussein Obama, the horror of whom we have not yet recovered from.

We all have ideals but we've never had an ideal president.

We now have a pretty good president ... at least in what he's done so far and what he plans to do.

He is also Trump.  If you want to get horribly offended every time he does something off the cuff, childish or embarrassing to you, you will have a long four years.

I intend to hold my fire while Trump is still being a reasonably good president and not ally myself with evil forces on the left.
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Offline LonestarDream

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And part of the motivation for wikileaks, which obviously did damage, was O's abuse of the intelligence.   What is collected has to be used VERY selectively.

O spied on allies like the Germans and fumbled it-- very reckless use of intelligence. 


@Victoria33 we knew for certain when I was in Afghanistan in 2010-11 that the Taliban had downloaded the WikiLeaks dump and were sussing through the data to out the rats in their midst.  We had sources completely dry up and/or refuse to deal with us out of fear for their lives and that of their family.  Taliban works like the Mob...they don't just kill you...they get your wife your kids your parents your cousins...you get the picture.

Assange and company made our lives and our jobs much harder.  I mean it was bad enough that we had a POTUS outing our CIA station chief in Pakistan and putting a target on the backs of the SEALS that killed Bin Laden...WikiLeaks just made a bad situation worse and vice versa
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 08:27:47 pm by LonestarDream »
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

Offline DiogenesLamp

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And that really is why we should give what he says a wide berth.  The more people fawn over his latest alleged document dump, the more credibility is given to him and the more it insulates him from seeing the kind of justice that needs to be served on him.  At some point it runs the risk of turning him into a Martyr and he doesn't need that kind of status anymore than your local suicide bomber needs or deserves it.


In criminal law,  there is this thing called the "exclusionary rule".  Otherwise called "the fruit of a poisoned tree." 


It is basically the premise that evidence must be excluded if it is not obtained legally.   I have for years lamented the illogic of this premise because it achieves the absolute worst possible outcome. 



Suppose you have a murderer regarding which irrefutable evidence is uncovered that he is a murderer.     The man should be punished.   


Suppose you have a cop that breaks the law in obtaining information which proves someone to be a murderer.   
Should not the cop be punished for breaking the law?   


As the current system stands,   the murderer is freed,  and the bad cop is ignored.   No justice of any sort is achieved.   


In a rational system,  all information,  no matter how obtained,  should be used to shine the light of truth on the guilt or innocence of a man on trial.   

If obtained illegally,   the evidence shouldn't be thrown out,   the person who committed the illegal act of obtaining it should be punished for having obtained it illegally.   


Refusing to look at information because you don't like how it was acquired is foolish.   Finding out what is the actual truth is always worthwhile,   even if you don't like how it came into your hands. 

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline txradioguy

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In criminal law,  there is this thing called the "exclusionary rule".  Otherwise called "the fruit of a poisoned tree." 


It is basically the premise that evidence must be excluded if it is not obtained legally.   I have for years lamented the illogic of this premise because it achieves the absolute worst possible outcome. 



Suppose you have a murderer regarding which irrefutable evidence is uncovered that he is a murderer.     The man should be punished.   


Suppose you have a cop that breaks the law in obtaining information which proves someone to be a murderer.   
Should not the cop be punished for breaking the law?   


As the current system stands,   the murderer is freed,  and the bad cop is ignored.   No justice of any sort is achieved.   


In a rational system,  all information,  no matter how obtained,  should be used to shine the light of truth on the guilt or innocence of a man on trial.   

If obtained illegally,   the evidence shouldn't be thrown out,   the person who committed the illegal act of obtaining it should be punished for having obtained it illegally.   


Refusing to look at information because you don't like how it was acquired is foolish.   Finding out what is the actual truth is always worthwhile,   even if you don't like how it came into your hands.

We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one.  Break the rules...take short cuts pay the consequences.  If your shoddy police work and crossing the line results in someone who should be locked up going free.  And yes those kinds of cops do get punished...real life PD work isn't like The Shield.



And I am of the firm belief that there are certain things in the world of the military and/or intelligence services...that the average citizen doesn't need to know about.  They need that secrecy and shadowy gray area to get things done in order to keep this country safe.

Do some of those trusted to do this abuse that power...most certainly...does that mean they are all bad...no.

And it doesn't give certain self identified "do gooders" the right to expose highly classified documents...assuming that is the case her...to Euroweenie asshats like Julian Assange.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 08:31:20 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Emjay

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I especially love how he now has the New York Slimes contradicting their own previous ""reporting"".  It's priceless.  And people (lots of) are now laughing out loud at them.

If Trump can take down the New York Times, he will have done conservatives the greatest favor they could ever have hoped for.

I hope he doesn't expect any thanks around here.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

Offline txradioguy

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If Trump can take down the New York Times, he will have done conservatives the greatest favor they could ever have hoped for.

I hope he doesn't expect any thanks around here.

And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?

There is a lack of long range vision and understanding of double edged swords in this blood lust to see a President "take down" a media outlet.

No matter how vile they may be in our eyes...they are no less free to publish what they want than any Conservative news organization.

There's thing called the 1st Amendment that protects them all.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cripplecreek

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And what's to stop the next Democrat President from taking down Fox News, or the Daily Caller?

There is a lack of long range vision and understanding of double edged swords in this blood lust to see a President "take down" a media outlet.

No matter how vile they may be in our eyes...they are no less free to publish what they want than any Conservative news organization.

There's thing called the 1st Amendment that protects them all.


Offline Emjay

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If Trump can take down the New York Times, he will have done conservatives the greatest favor they could ever have hoped for.

I hope he doesn't expect any thanks around here.

Speaking of the way too old Gray Lady, a liberal friend posts from them on Facebook every day.

Today it was a long convoluted story about a guy who took his own pictures and apparently hung around movie sets.

The hook for the story was that we would see 'Forbidden' pictures from the famous scene where Marilyn's dress is blown up over a grate and she has to try and push it down.

Anyway, if you waded through the story, it turns out that, yes, Marilyn WAS wearing underwear ... two pairs to be exact.  There were no pictures any sexier or more revealing than what you've already seen.

But what I'm mad about, is that the Times story made much hay about Joe DiMaggio being in the audience and getting more and more ticked.  Which is strange since he married a sexy movie star.  But, anyway, the Times did a little more than insinuate that Joe beat her up that night and she had bruises the next day.

We don't have to take this, people.  I don't believe it at all.  Joe is dead; Marilyn is dead.  May the New York Times be next.
Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.