Author Topic: Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!  (Read 42006 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Obama will be proved a word parsing lawyer, in keeping with Clinton's earlier justification.

"It all depends on the meaning of is."

The WH didn't ask for it, but somebody sure did.

My prediction:

Obama has:

Plausible deniability

Plausible deniability is the ability for persons to deny knowledge of or responsibility for any damnable actions committed by others because of a lack of evidence that can confirm their participation, even if they were personally involved in or at least willfully ignorant of the actions. In the case that illegal or otherwise disreputable and unpopular activities become public, high-ranking officials may deny any awareness of such acts in order to insulate themselves and shift blame onto the agents who carried out the acts, as they are confident that their doubters will be unable to prove otherwise. The lack of evidence to the contrary ostensibly makes the denial plausible, that is, credible, although sometimes it merely makes it unactionable. The term typically implies forethought, such as intentionally setting up the conditions to plausibly avoid responsibility for one's actions or knowledge. In some organizations, legal doctrines such as command responsibility exist to hold major parties responsible for the actions of subordinates involved in heinous acts and nullify any legal protection that their denial of involvement would carry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Mesaclone

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Obama will be proved a word parsing lawyer, in keeping with Clinton's earlier justification.

"It all depends on the meaning of is."

The WH didn't ask for it, but somebody sure did.

My prediction:

Obama has:

Plausible deniability

Plausible deniability is the ability for persons to deny knowledge of or responsibility for any damnable actions committed by others because of a lack of evidence that can confirm their participation, even if they were personally involved in or at least willfully ignorant of the actions. In the case that illegal or otherwise disreputable and unpopular activities become public, high-ranking officials may deny any awareness of such acts in order to insulate themselves and shift blame onto the agents who carried out the acts, as they are confident that their doubters will be unable to prove otherwise. The lack of evidence to the contrary ostensibly makes the denial plausible, that is, credible, although sometimes it merely makes it unactionable. The term typically implies forethought, such as intentionally setting up the conditions to plausibly avoid responsibility for one's actions or knowledge. In some organizations, legal doctrines such as command responsibility exist to hold major parties responsible for the actions of subordinates involved in heinous acts and nullify any legal protection that their denial of involvement would carry.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plausible_deniability

No doubt he has plausible deniability...but the reply from his spokesman gives away the game. CLEARLY, Obama's Justice Department WAS tapping Trump Tower. And deny direct knowledge if he will, but he cannot escape being the Chief Executive...liable for any and all significant actions of his subordinates. This was no "rogue" actor at Justice, this was Obama political appointees acting under his purview...though almost certainly indirectly. But that "indirectness" is no shield, the buck sits squarely at the feet of Mr. Obama as president (former). The media, of course, will not play it that way but Trump...and by extension the rest of us...must hold to that.
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Offline LonestarDream

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No doubt he has plausible deniability...but the reply from his spokesman gives away the game. CLEARLY, Obama's Justice Department WAS tapping Trump Tower. And deny direct knowledge if he will, but he cannot escape being the Chief Executive...liable for any and all significant actions of his subordinates. This was no "rogue" actor at Justice, this was Obama political appointees acting under his purview...though almost certainly indirectly. But that "indirectness" is no shield, the buck sits squarely at the feet of Mr. Obama as president (former). The media, of course, will not play it that way but Trump...and by extension the rest of us...must hold to that.

Lock up as many of the old DOJ people as we can.

@truth_seeker
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geronl

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But I still see no upside for the future of our country in aligning ourselves with Obama, Hillary and most of the Media who devote every minute to try and get rid of Trump..

Not supporting Trump is not the same as aligning with Obama, Hillary and the media.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Not supporting Trump is not the same as aligning with Obama, Hillary and the media.


To these plebes it is.

geronl

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If and when such a document is made public - assuming it exists of course - it would be Trump, once again, that gets the last laugh.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-04/obama-advisor-rhodes-wrong-president-can-order-wiretap-and-why-trump-may-have-last-l

It would be awesome to see people to cheer on credible evidence that the new President is a possible criminal.

geronl

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Lock up as many of the old DOJ people as we can.

@truth_seeker
@Right_in_Virginia

Lock them up? Forget about trials and evidence.


Either everything that happened in the Presidents fault (Obama in this case) or it's the fault of every single person in the DoJ at the time? You somehow conclude that everyone at the DoJ was privy (and involved) to whatever might have transpired at a secret FISA court?

Not everything is that black and white.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 03:43:53 am by geronl »

Offline bigheadfred

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It would be awesome to see people to cheer on credible evidence that the new President is a possible criminal.

Why do you want that?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

geronl

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That is true.  Like it or not, Trump and his advisors are fighting back. If it is not as pretty and genteel as one wishes it was, consider the fine job that Presidents McCain and Romney offered.

If one cannot stand to watch, avert your eyes. Let the ones willing to fight, do their best.

tweeting insane allegations is not "fighting back".

He should be acting like a President not a professional victim. We didn't elect a community organizer.

Offline LonestarDream

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Not supporting Trump is not the same as aligning with Obama, Hillary and the media.

They would destroy Pence in 10 nanoseconds. 

Who are you pining to take the presidency then?
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

geronl

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Why do you want that?

I don't want that. I was responding to that. Somehow a FISA ruling that credible evidence exists to justify a wiretap would be 'good news" to Trumpers.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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If Obama got a court ordered wiretap on trump but it was legal and Obama followed all the proper channels, what would you lock up Obama and his DOJ for, exactly?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 03:48:05 am by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

geronl

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They would destroy Pence in 10 nanoseconds. 

Who are you pining to take the presidency then?

An inanimate object would be preferable.

"They" who? "They" have no power, Trump is President and a Congressional majority is toadying up to him. If he started acting like a real President than someone who wants to ride an ICBM, he's bullet-proof.

Trump and his supporters are the ones who make him look weak and victimized. That is a lot more damaging than anything the left has done.

Offline LonestarDream

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Wire tapping political opponents under color of authority.

Nixon was a piker.

If Obama got a court ordered wiretap on trump but it was legal and Obama followed all the proper channels, what would you lock up Obama and his DOJ for, exactly?
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

geronl

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If Obama got a court ordered wiretap on trump but it was legal and Obama followed all the proper channels, what would you lock up Obama and his DOJ for, exactly?

Compromise and force them to wear little yellow donkeys on their lapels? :p

geronl

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It would depend on the evidence presented to the court.

If it even happened.


Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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An inanimate object would be preferable.

"They" who? "They" have no power, Trump is President and a Congressional majority is toadying up to him. If he started acting like a real President than someone who wants to ride an ICBM, he's bullet-proof.

Trump and his supporters are the ones who make him look weak and victimized. That is a lot more damaging than anything the left has done.


Trump, Trumpbart, the MAGA crowd, and the MAGA media all look like complete wimps and whiners, still complaining about mean ol' Obama after Obama has been out of office for over a month. GET ON WITH IT. Pass your agenda and stop whining like little bitches.

Offline LonestarDream

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The libs, you know that.

An inanimate object would be preferable.

"They" who? "They" have no power, Trump is President and a Congressional majority is toadying up to him. If he started acting like a real President than someone who wants to ride an ICBM, he's bullet-proof.

Trump and his supporters are the ones who make him look weak and victimized. That is a lot more damaging than anything the left has done.
(?) Trump Realist    (*) Trump believer   (?) Never Trump,   Which are you ?

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Wire tapping political opponents under color of authority.

Nixon was a piker.


 :shrug:  He got the court's approval. Must have been probably cause.

Offline bigheadfred

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I don't want that. I was responding to that. Somehow a FISA ruling that credible evidence exists to justify a wiretap would be 'good news" to Trumpers.

Well, the attempt by obama failed, apparently according to Ryan.

I see a machination orchestrated by obama aka jarrett to do as much damage as possible to the next POTUS. I would make the same bet if it was POTUS Cruz. I see the exact same crap coming from the left with someone other than trump. How that other POTUS handled it would probably be a lot different from the way trump is handling it.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

geronl

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GET ON WITH IT. Pass your agenda and stop whining like little bitches.

If it wasn't for all the craziness and worship, if Trump had been 'above it all'. the left would look like complete imbeciles all alone on the field of imbecility. Unfortunately it seems Trump and his followers want to best them at that game too. I think they should have just conceded that one.

Offline bigheadfred

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 :shrug:  He got the court's approval. Must have been probably cause.

Now who is reading in?
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

geronl

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Well, the attempt by obama failed, apparently according to Ryan.

I dunno, I am still waiting for his morse code blinks to be fully deciphered until I have an opinion on that one.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Now who is reading in?

What's the crime that obama committed if he got the court to approve a wiretap and then wiretapped accordingly?

geronl

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 :shrug:  He got the court's approval. Must have been probably cause.

Not necessarily, for all we know all it takes is a serious allegation to make some of these judges give approval.