Withdrawal from Trans-Pacific Partnership shifts U.S. role in world economy

[kevindavis007]

And likewise you could name some of the drawbacks? Or is it just "DUH CHINA BAD" with you?


The general assault on trade as a job killer is ignorant. Automation is killing most jobs, not offshoring. Trade also provides a substantial part of our GDP, beyond imports and exports. That's why a trade war would be a net job killer.

The days of having massive amount of people working in a factory for 30 years is over. 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

The days of having massive amount of people working in a factory for 30 years is over.

Absolutely. This isn't the 1950's anymore. And many manufacturing positions will require more than just showing up.

[Just_Victor]

And likewise you could name some of the drawbacks? Or is it just "DUH CHINA BAD" with you?


The general assault on trade as a job killer is ignorant. Automation is killing most jobs, not offshoring. Trade also provides a substantial part of our GDP, beyond imports and exports. That's why a trade war would be a net job killer.

If the TPP was such an awesome deal, then why did Congress reject it, even after granting fasttrack authority (i.e. 50% passes rather than 60%)?

We're not refusing to trade, just that we're not going to do so under a non-existent treaty that the legislative branch appears to universally agree is bad policy.

[kevindavis007]

Absolutely. This isn't the 1950's anymore. And many manufacturing positions will require more than just showing up.

Exactly..  Also the only reason that happened in the 1950's was due to the fact the rest of the world was destroyed cause of WWII... 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

If the TPP was such an awesome deal, then why did Congress reject it, even after granting fasttrack authority (i.e. 50% passes rather than 60%)?

We're not refusing to trade, just that we're not going to do so under a non-existent treaty that the legislative branch appears to universally agree is bad policy.

IMO progressives just trained their sights on it and took it out, because they, like Donny and the populists, don't like it.

[Just_Victor]

IMO progressives just trained their sights on it and took it out, because they, like Donny and the populists, don't like it.

Cruz was/is against it.  It looks like most of the Senate refused to support it, democRATs and GOP alike.  I can't find any news article detailing any Senator's support.

[Cripplecreek]

I think the American business should be allowed to any business regardless where they are from..

A lot of these geniuses are using magical thinking and refusal to acknowledge real facts. When you point out that protectionist trade policies drive costs up the puff out their chest and announce "I'll buy Murican". They simply ignore the fact that their American made goods are largely made with foreign produced materials.

When I made the interior door skins for Cadillacs that were built in Livonia Michigan almost all of the material and components we used were foreign sourced. The plastic that we molded into the base level was from China. The vinyl we stretched over the base level came from China. The various switches and light fixtures came from Indonesia, Mexico, China, Australia, Canada etc. (I believe the Bose speakers we used came from a factory on the east coast)

In 2000 our shop sold those doors to GM for right around $600 each. If all the materials and components had been American made the doors would have easily doubled in price.

[kevindavis007]

A lot of these geniuses are using magical thinking and refusal to acknowledge real facts. When you point out that protectionist trade policies drive costs up the puff out their chest and announce "I'll buy Murican". They simply ignore the fact that their American made goods are largely made with foreign produced materials.

When I made the interior door skins for Cadillacs that were built in Livonia Michigan almost all of the material and components we used were foreign sourced. The plastic that we molded into the base level was from China. The vinyl we stretched over the base level came from China. The various switches and light fixtures came from Indonesia, Mexico, China, Australia, Canada etc. (I believe the Bose speakers we used came from a factory on the east coast)

In 2000 our shop sold those doors to GM for right around $600 each. If all the materials and components had been American made the doors would have easily doubled in price.

Exactly... The only reason buy American worked in the 1950's because there was nothing else!!! Not in today's world. We need to start living in the present.

[jmyrlefuller]

By Ylan Q. Mui

Yes, Chinese author talks about great opportunity for Chinese government with collapse of TPP.

This is propaganda.

[libertybele]

If you think China is an economic basket case, I have a bridge in the Sahara you might be interested in buying.

I might add that your attitude about the country is the same attitude Europeans had about America prior to WWII.

I am not an economic guru, but China's economy isn't exactly healthy and even Soros has acknowledged that China is near a financial crisis; their debt is twice that of their GDP. China has built several cities over the past several years but they remain empty; I wouldn't exactly call that an indicator of a booming economy. This was something Bammy tried to sell the American people saying it would bring job to Americans; if you believe that then you still must think that NAFTA was good for American jobs..

Quite honestly, I don't see Trump making any deal that he isn't going to profit from.  At this point in time, if Trump doesn't profit, neither does America.

From my understanding of TPP, it is not a Free trade deal nor is it a Fair trade deal for the U.S and at this time China isn't a member.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/trump-tpp-move-seen-as-win-for-china-but-beijing-isnt-celebrating/2017/01/24/f0e5ffcc-e188-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?utm_term=.b37f2c729d1c

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/china-is-near-a-financial-crisis-similar-to-the-us-in-2008-says-soros-2016-04-21

[Suppressed]

IMO progressives just trained their sights on it and took it out, because they, like Donny and the populists, don't like it.

[dfwgator]

If the TPP was such an awesome deal, then why did Congress reject it, even after granting fasttrack authority (i.e. 50% passes rather than 60%)?

We're not refusing to trade, just that we're not going to do so under a non-existent treaty that the legislative branch appears to universally agree is bad policy.

I'm all for "Free Trade", but the TPP ain't it.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Yes, the populists on the forum will be glad to know they share in such good company. They should be proud of themselves.

[Frank Cannon]

And likewise you could name some of the drawbacks? Or is it just "DUH CHINA BAD" with you?


The general assault on trade as a job killer is ignorant. Automation is killing most jobs, not offshoring. Trade also provides a substantial part of our GDP, beyond imports and exports. That's why a trade war would be a net job killer.

So you are in favor of some "independent" Investor-State Dispute Settlement levying fines against our companies that will be payed for by the taxpayers?

BTW, if offshoring isn't killing jobs and automation is, why are these companies moving overseas and hiring human beings instead of robots? The only justification for TPP is political advantage. There are no economic advantages in the least because all the countries involved are losers.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

BTW, if offshoring isn't killing jobs and automation is, why are these companies moving overseas and hiring human beings instead of robots?

The human labor is cheaper overseas, that's why. If they move back to the states it will be much more advantageous to automate than in China, where they can pay people cents on the dollar what they would pay people here.

[Frank Cannon]

In 2000 our shop sold those doors to GM for right around $600 each. If all the materials and components had been American made the doors would have easily doubled in price.

As a former first gen Escalade owner, I wouldn't be too proud of those door panels.

BTW, if you know the guy who made the master window switch for that door panel, I'd like to send him a note too. You get about a years use out of one.

[skeeter]

The human labor is cheaper overseas, that's why. If they move back to the states it will be much more advantageous to automate than in China, where they can pay people cents on the dollar what they would pay people here.

Accepting your premise wouldn't it still be better to produce locally using innovative production methods than sending our dollars overseas to produce using cheap foreign labor? Plus there'd be no reason for importing low skill labor, and growing the underclass, here at home.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Accepting your premise wouldn't it still be better to produce locally using innovative production methods than sending our dollars overseas to produce using cheap foreign labor?

If it was companies would be doing it already.


We should reduce all economic incentives for offshoring while not enacting things that hurt american consumers (like tariffs).


Tariffs are just a tax that make poor and middle class people poorer.

[skeeter]

If it was companies would be doing it already.


We should reduce all economic incentives for offshoring while not enacting things that hurt american consumers (like tariffs).


Tariffs are just a tax that make poor and middle class people poorer.

Companies aren't doing it now because of the government interference you imply in your second sentence.

You can't look at the spending side without also considering the income side.

[jmyrlefuller]

BTW, if offshoring isn't killing jobs and automation is, why are these companies moving overseas and hiring human beings instead of robots?

That may have been the case in the 1990s, but it isn't as much anymore. There are a few exceptions (Foxconn being a big one), but in a lot of those cases, especially with electronics, it's more because China has an abundance of the rare minerals used in their production that, alas, the U.S. doesn't have, than it is some nefarious manipulation.

Besides, in Red China's case, their standard of living's rising quickly as its population ages and the targets of offshoring now are even less developed Third World countries where they can more easily get away with the cheap labor.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Companies aren't doing it now because of the government interference you imply in your second sentence.

You can't look at the spending side without also considering the income side.

Huh?