Pope throws down gauntlet to religions: No killing in God’s name

[bigheadfred]

ROME - From the beginning, it was inevitable that history’s first pontiff named “Francis,” for the great 12th and 13th century apostle of peace, would see himself as a “peace pope.” On Monday, Pope Francis signaled the press for peace will continue to be a top-shelf priority in 2017, pleading for an end to the “homicidal madness” of terrorism and war.

In particular, Francis issued a challenge to religious leaders of all faiths to reject, once and for all, the idea that killing in the name of God can ever be justified.

“Sadly, we are conscious that even today, religious experience, rather than fostering openness to others, can be used at times as a pretext for rejection, marginalization and violence,” Francis said.

Referring to terrorist attacks and other acts of violence that erupted throughout 2016 in places such as Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Belgium, Egypt, France, Germany, Iraq, Nigeria, Pakistan, and even the United States, Francis said, “We are dealing with a homicidal madness which misuses God’s name in order to disseminate death, in a play for domination and power.”

“I appeal to all religious authorities to join in reaffirming unequivocally that one can never kill in God’s name,” the pontiff said.

https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2017/01/09/pope-throws-gauntlet-religions-no-killing-gods-name/

[mountaineer]

I trust he's referring to this sort of thing:

Muslim Mother Blows Herself Up While Holding Her Baby In Nigeria

...   Three female suicide bombers blew themselves up at a market in Madagali, Nigeria. One of the women strapped her baby to her body before blowing herself up.   ...

Full story

Here's a hint, Pope: it's not Methodists or Catholics doing this.

[dfwgator]

Yep, Frank, the Muslims will get right on that. /s

[Fishrrman]

When faced with a totalitarian and militaristic "religion" that embraces "killing in [allah's] name, if Christianity desires to survive, it must also take up the sword:



Or... be slaughtered.

[INVAR]

I think the Muslims would reply to that 'gauntlet' with - "Oh yes?  How many Divisions does the Pope have at his command?"

[mountaineer]

When faced with a totalitarian and militaristic "religion" that embraces "killing in [allah's] name, if Christianity desires to survive, it must also take up the sword:
Or... be slaughtered.

I don't believe that's the way it works.

[EC]

I trust he's referring to this sort of thing:Full story

Here's a hint, Pope: it's not Methodists or Catholics doing this.

The Brighton bombing, the Soho bombing, the City bombing were done by muslim Irish?

Who knew? 

[bigheadfred]

The Brighton bombing, the Soho bombing, the City bombing were done by muslim Irish?

Who knew? 

You have a point there EC. I would like to say that those people are only trying to change their little corner of the world.

The other group is trying to force their change on the entire world. Including the IRA.

[mountaineer]

The Brighton bombing, the Soho bombing, the City bombing were done by muslim Irish?

Who knew? 

Is this still going on, or is Islam the only "religion" currently engaging in terrorist acts of murder? (Not being snarky, I just haven't heard anything of the IRA in recent years).

[Fishrrman]

mountaineer wrote:
"I don't believe that's the way it works."

Yes, I understand your point of view.

But...
...if that's true...
...the The West -- at least in Europe -- is finished.

Only a matter of time.

[TomSea]

The Brighton bombing, the Soho bombing, the City bombing were done by muslim Irish?

Who knew? 

@EC :

What is often debated though, is whether the IRA was bombing for religious reasons.

The 2 sides had different religions one can say; but it might be a reach to say they carried out their acts because of their faith.

A religious war or holy war (Latin: bellum sacrum) is a war primarily caused or justified by differences in religion. The account of the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites in the Book of Joshua, the Muslim conquests of the 7th and 8th centuries, and the Christian Crusades (11th to 13th centuries) and Wars of Religion (16th and 17th centuries) are sometimes classified as examples. A religious aspect has been part of warfare in some cultures as early as the battles of the Mesopotamian city-states.

It is evident that religion as one aspect of a people's cultural heritage may serve as a cultural marker or ideological rationalisation for a conflict that has deeper ethnic and cultural differences. This has been specifically argued for the case of The Troubles in Northern Ireland, often portrayed as a religious conflict of a Catholic vs. a Protestant faction, while the more fundamental cause of the conflict was in fact ethnic or nationalistic rather than religious in nature.[22] Since the native Irish were mostly Catholic and the later British-sponsored immigrants were mainly Protestant, the terms become shorthand for the two cultures, but it is inaccurate to describe the conflict as a religious one.[22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Agree or not, so it is written.

I'd certainly not assert that UK went into Ireland to spread their British religion.

------

I'm no historian, I suppose the Crusades were religious in protecting the religion of Christianity.

[bigheadfred]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqs4EbU02As

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqs4EbU02As

[driftdiver]

I don't believe that's the way it works.

@mountaineer

How does it work?

[bigheadfred]

@mountaineer

How does it work?

Love them to death?

[EC]

Is this still going on, or is Islam the only "religion" currently engaging in terrorist acts of murder? (Not being snarky, I just haven't heard anything of the IRA in recent years).

Flares up, dies back. Pretty irregular now, since the older ones are falling to old age and apathy. But yeah, the IRA's killing wing is still going - call themselves the RealIRA now.

[EC]

@EC :

What is often debated though, is whether the IRA was bombing for religious reasons.

The 2 sides had different religions one can say; but it might be a reach to say they carried out their acts because of their faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

Agree or not, so it is written.

I'd certainly not assert that UK went into Ireland to spread their British religion.

------

I'm no historian, I suppose the Crusades were religious in protecting the religion of Christianity.

@TomSea

Honestly doubt it - religion was, as is invariably the case, a fig leaf to conceal the lust for power. Same as for the ISIS scum.

However, one of the criteria the IRA used in their selection of targets was "Protestant." Just like the Loyalist lot targeted Catholics and Catholic neighborhoods. So, I'm of the mind that if they are walking and quacking a lot like a duck, they're a duck.

[TomSea]

@TomSea

Honestly doubt it - religion was, as is invariably the case, a fig leaf to conceal the lust for power. Same as for the ISIS scum.

However, one of the criteria the IRA used in their selection of targets was "Protestant." Just like the Loyalist lot targeted Catholics and Catholic neighborhoods. So, I'm of the mind that if they are walking and quacking a lot like a duck, they're a duck.

@EC

So, then, the UK is in Northern Ireland for religious reasons?

[TomSea]

The bomb analogy too; can just mean that they did not want to bomb ethnic Irish vs. ethnic Scots Irish. That's not too difficult to see.

It appears to break down more along ethnic lines.

I'm not sure if the Israel Palestine conflict would in that vein be directly religious either, it has elements of religion but it seems to break down along ethnic lines.

[EC]

@EC

So, then, the UK is in Northern Ireland for religious reasons?

No, of course not. We're in there for the same reason we're still in the Falklands - the people who live there prefer to be British than Irish (or Argies).

The religious aspect is more to do with the treatment Catholics got historically by the CoE and the Crown. Suppress a people's religion, they get somewhat ticked.

[TomSea]

I guess that is right EC, I never thought about that.

England had their occupation or whatever is the correct word of Ireland to enforce the Church of England on them. My history is not up to snuff in this department. I don't see how I missed that.

[EC]

I guess that is right EC, I never thought about that.

England had their occupation or whatever is the correct word of Ireland to enforce the Church of England on them. My history is not up to snuff in this department. I don't see how I missed that.

No worries. 

It's often missed - the CoE has had more than it's share of religious crusades since the 1600's. Of course, it was never actually described that way, but when the state religion is part of the state mechanism of governance you start to look at the Empire a little differently.

[Oceander]

No worries. 

It's often missed - the CoE has had more than it's share of religious crusades since the 1600's. Of course, it was never actually described that way, but when the state religion is part of the state mechanism of governance you start to look at the Empire a little differently.

And that is one of the big reasons for why the Founders drafted a robust separation of Church and State into the Constitution.  Thos. Jefferson viewed his two greatest accomplishments as the Declaration of Independence, and the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom.

[bigheadfred]

No worries. 

It's often missed - the CoE has had more than it's share of religious crusades since the 1600's. Of course, it was never actually described that way, but when the state religion is part of the state mechanism of governance you start to look at the Empire a little differently.

Henry the Eighth?

[EC]

Henry the Eighth?

Nah - he was too busy screwing around to really spend much time on the church he supposedly headed. It's Elizabeth who established the rules of what eventually became`the Great Game - and she really weren't fond of Catholics since they did keep trying to kill her. Even had her own inquisition going on.
But it were James who really started using the CoE as a tool of the Empire.

[bigheadfred]

Thanks for the info @EC.