7 Things All Women Need In A Relationship (Jordan Gray)

[Quix]

It's funny, but as you get older, more is revealed to you. I have seen that 'flash', even in a baby who looked at a waiter, got red in the face and completely changed her demeanor, cooing and wanting to go to him (reaching out to be held). She couldn't talk yet, but she knew what she liked.

In older girls/women, I have seen ladies go 'on the hunt'. Some guys are oblivious to the idea, but if a woman decides she wants a particular man, she will zero in on him and from a (safe) distance, it is obvious to someone watching. The target is often oblivious.

And no, it isn't always malicious, sometimes it is just Le Sacre du printemps.

Quite so.

[Quix]

Mental health is a little like global warming. First you have to figure out what the temperature should be. If you can't define "normal", you can't define abnormal, except for the really pointy ends of the bell curve.

The study summarizing many dozens of studies more than 40 years ago . . . of what was the main thing that resulted in effective functioning adults had this definition of successful adulthood:

1. Stable job
2. Stable marriage
3. No trouble with the law
4. Not on welfare.

Certainly many people could fulfill those criteria and still be quite crazy.

BTW, The ONE THING that turned out to account for 80% of the factors resulting in success as adults was . . . drum roll . . . NOT whether the individual was loved by their parents . . . but whether the child FELT loved by the parents. Socioeconomic status, education, types of discipline etc. were all rather minor in discriminating between success and failure as an adult.

One definition of mental health is to be grounded in reality--whatever that is. LOL.

i.e. their perceptions, responses, conclusions are not outrageously askew from those of the average person.

But we could get into a book length discussion on what "normal" vs "abnormal" constituted.

Most folks have a round notion that serves fairly well in life most of the time.

Pastors turned out to be good at screening for schizophrenia about as well as most psychiatrists . . . in more than one study.

[Silver Pines]

Let me try again . . .

Mental health is a continuum like many things.

It's only a matter of degree.

I personally believe that any compulsion toward control freakism arises out of an insecurity . . . and the more serious the insecurity--the more serious the control freakism.

Insecurities range in a continuum from barely any to a near totally consuming insecurity.

It doesn't matter to me a lot where one puts the criteria for mental illness/not mental illness on such scores. At some level, it's all a "sick" way of relating, regardless.

= = =

I think the same sort of behaviors COULD originate out of merely a healthy desire to connect OR an insecurity based control-freak manipulation.

It would depend on the attitude of the heart . . . the motives driving the behavior . . . and how much of it was a compulsion and how much of it was merely a desire to connect vs an insecurity based DRIVENNESS and DESPERATE NEED to connect.

I don't see where your labeling my assertions as all one end of the spectrum fits what I'm trying to say, much at all.

Perhaps the key issue in such situations would be whether the woman (or man, for that matter) was prone to or COULD or TENDED TO

make efforts to connect that were open-handed. i.e. Did they make their initiated behaviors attractive but not compulsory?

Did she bat her eyelashes alluringly but not DEMANDINGLY?

Did she let it be however it was whether he jumped with tongue hanging out to her attraction efforts or not . . . with her remaining pleasant and confident regardless of his responses?

Or, did she get huffy and punish him for not being a proper love-struck puppy dog groveling at her feet?

One would be a compulsive manipulation based on insecurities and one would not--though the behaviors were mostly the same--except for very subtle undercurrents accordingly.

@Quix, you're trying to take common interaction between men and women and turn it into some kind of tortured, sinister scheme motivated by mental illness and emotional damage.  Some things are just very simple.

I'd like to add that I've been trying to picture someone "batting her eyes demandingly" and I still haven't a clue what that would look like. 

[Silver Pines]

It's funny, but as you get older, more is revealed to you. I have seen that 'flash', even in a baby who looked at a waiter, got red in the face and completely changed her demeanor, cooing and wanting to go to him (reaching out to be held). She couldn't talk yet, but she knew what she liked.

In older girls/women, I have seen ladies go 'on the hunt'. Some guys are oblivious to the idea, but if a woman decides she wants a particular man, she will zero in on him and from a (safe) distance, it is obvious to someone watching. The target is often oblivious.

And no, it isn't always malicious, sometimes it is just Le Sacre du printemps.

@Smokin Joe

Exactly.  That was precisely what I was trying to express.   

[Quix]

@Quix, you're trying to take common interaction between men and women and turn it into some kind of tortured, sinister scheme motivated by mental illness and emotional damage.  Some things are just very simple.

I'd like to add that I've been trying to picture someone "batting her eyes demandingly" and I still haven't a clue what that would look like. 

Sorry but I don't think I'm doing that at all.

I'm describing a range of motivations and a range of behaviors.

And sometimes the SEEMINGLY SAME BEHAVIORs CAN have very different motivations.

As to batting her eyes demandingly . . . LOL. That's an example.

How could one tell from the eyes batting alone that the woman was demanding out of desperate insecurity or merely intensely interested in getting a romance going. I don't think one could tell the difference from merely the eyes batting.

If you are trying to tell me that all women all the time are only interested in wonderful romance and never operating out of desperate insecurities as they seek  to  'catch' their man . . . then I'll have to disagree and wonder what context your observations come from.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

Sorry but I don't think I'm doing that at all.

I'm describing a range of motivations and a range of behaviors.

And sometimes the SEEMINGLY SAME BEHAVIORs CAN have very different motivations.

As to batting her eyes demandingly . . . LOL. That's an example.

How could one tell from the eyes batting alone that the woman was demanding out of desperate insecurity or merely intensely interested in getting a romance going. I don't think one could tell the difference from merely the eyes batting.

If you are trying to tell me that all women all the time are only interested in wonderful romance and never operating out of desperate insecurities as they seek  to  'catch' their man . . . then I'll have to disagree and wonder what context your observations come from.

@Quix if you think you can understand women you are crazy. 

[mirraflake]

In older girls/women, I have seen ladies go 'on the hunt'. Some guys are oblivious to the idea, but if a woman decides she wants a particular man, she will zero in on him and from a (safe) distance, it is obvious to someone watching. The target is often oblivious.

Not just older women. Most relationships/first dates  I have seen the woman took the initiative in various ways to kickstart things so to speak and kept the relationship moving forward if she wanted. 1/2 the married guys I know the woman really were the ones to make things happen...under the unsuspecting radar of the guy.  The old saying "women pick men not the other way around" is so true.  When a guy ask out a woman she has already decided yes or no and is 3 steps ahead of him planning what's next.

@Smokin Joe 

[Silver Pines]

@Quix if you think you can understand women you are crazy. 

@Idaho_Cowboy

[Silver Pines]

Sorry but I don't think I'm doing that at all.

I'm describing a range of motivations and a range of behaviors.

And sometimes the SEEMINGLY SAME BEHAVIORs CAN have very different motivations.

As to batting her eyes demandingly . . . LOL. That's an example.

How could one tell from the eyes batting alone that the woman was demanding out of desperate insecurity or merely intensely interested in getting a romance going. I don't think one could tell the difference from merely the eyes batting.

If you are trying to tell me that all women all the time are only interested in wonderful romance and never operating out of desperate insecurities as they seek  to  'catch' their man . . . then I'll have to disagree and wonder what context your observations come from.

Outside of a cheesy movie, I've never seen a woman bat her eyes at anyone.  I've certainly never done it.  People don't go around flapping their eyelashes.

Okay, so not everyone is perfectly adjusted, and women who are not flirt, too, is that what you're saying?  But so what?   The man she's flirting with might be just as batcrap crazy as she is.  Maybe they'll be a perfect match.

[Silver Pines]

Not just older women. Most relationships/first dates  I have seen the woman took the initiative in various ways to kickstart things so to speak and kept the relationship moving forward if she wanted. 1/2 the married guys I know the woman really were the ones to make things happen...under the unsuspecting radar of the guy.  The old saying "women pick men not the other way around" is so true.  When a guy ask out a woman she has already decided yes or no and is 3 steps ahead of him planning what's next.

@Smokin Joe

@mirraflake

Lol 

[mirraflake]

Outside of a cheesy movie, I've never seen a woman bat her eyes at anyone.  I've certainly never done it.  People don't go around flapping their eyelashes.

Okay, so not everyone is perfectly adjusted, and women who are not flirt, too, is that what you're saying?  But so what?   The man she's flirting with might be just as batcrap crazy as she is.  Maybe they'll be a perfect match.

What I noticed when dating back in the old days: if a woman was interested in me

Subtle touching my arm, when talking in a group of people staying with me after all others have left, long eye contact but never batting lashes, laughing at what you say even if corny or it came out wrong. Some if they really really like you for a while and you talk with them some get so nervous it appears they are about to cry, going out of their way to do things for you (I'll type your paper for you) , in HS or college if they work at a fast food place etc asking for a medium coke and they hand you a large and just smile.

@CatherineofAragon
@Quix

[Silver Pines]

What I noticed when dating back in the old days: if a woman was interested in me

Subtle touching my arm, when talking in a group of people staying with me after all others have left, long eye contact but never batting lashes, laughing at what you say even if corny or it came out wrong. Some if they really really like you for a while and you talk with them some get so nervous it appears they are about to cry, going out of their way to do things for you, in HS or college if they work at a fast food place etc asking for a medium coke and they hand you a large and just smile.

@CatherineofAragon
@Quix

@mirraflake

Very good...you were observant.

I say this with great affection for men:  if the guy is interested, he'll fall like a domino.  But if he isn't, no amount of chasing after him is going to force his interest.  Women would save themselves a lot of anguish, IMO, if they could learn that lesson.

[Quix]

@Quix if you think you can understand women you are crazy. 

I like to think I'm not that grandiose or presumptuous.

Though . . . on the other side of the coin, I've lost track of how many women have said I understood them better than any other man they'd ever met.

LOLOL.

[Quix]

Not just older women. Most relationships/first dates  I have seen the woman took the initiative in various ways to kickstart things so to speak and kept the relationship moving forward if she wanted. 1/2 the married guys I know the woman really were the ones to make things happen...under the unsuspecting radar of the guy.  The old saying "women pick men not the other way around" is so true.  When a guy ask out a woman she has already decided yes or no and is 3 steps ahead of him planning what's next.

@Smokin Joe 

imho, There's plenty of truth in those points.

Thanks.

[Quix]

@Idaho_Cowboy

I see you found a 'batting eyes' gif! LOLOL.

[Quix]

Outside of a cheesy movie, I've never seen a woman bat her eyes at anyone.  I've certainly never done it.  People don't go around flapping their eyelashes.

I have. I don't know what percentage,  but I've seen it . . . both more or less constructively inviting a healthy relationship and seductively as the spider to the fly.

Okay, so not everyone is perfectly adjusted, and women who are not flirt, too, is that what you're saying?

Yes. I was ONLY talking about those women who operated out of a huge deficit of insecurity, RAD fostered control-freakism and manipulation to try and force things to happen with a targeted individual.

  But so what?   The man she's flirting with might be just as batcrap crazy as she is.  Maybe they'll be a perfect match.

There's plenty of that, alright . . . with tons of rather sick co-dependent relationships to show for it.

However, it would be better for both of them to work most of their carp through before getting bonded and then have a much healthier relationship with a better prognosis for it enduring long term.

[Quix]

What I noticed when dating back in the old days: if a woman was interested in me

Subtle touching my arm, when talking in a group of people staying with me after all others have left, long eye contact but never batting lashes, laughing at what you say even if corny or it came out wrong. Some if they really really like you for a while and you talk with them some get so nervous it appears they are about to cry, going out of their way to do things for you (I'll type your paper for you) , in HS or college if they work at a fast food place etc asking for a medium coke and they hand you a large and just smile.

@CatherineofAragon
@Quix

Have seen a fair amount of that . . . though I think it's rarer than some seem to think.

[Quix]

@mirraflake

Very good...you were observant.

I say this with great affection for men:  if the guy is interested, he'll fall like a domino.  But if he isn't, no amount of chasing after him is going to force his interest.  Women would save themselves a lot of anguish, IMO, if they could learn that lesson.

I think healthy women either know that instinctively; learned it from Mom and/or Dad and operate accordingly.

Unhealthy women, not so much.

[Smokin Joe]

Outside of a cheesy movie, I've never seen a woman bat her eyes at anyone.  I've certainly never done it.  People don't go around flapping their eyelashes.

Okay, so not everyone is perfectly adjusted, and women who are not flirt, too, is that what you're saying?  But so what?   The man she's flirting with might be just as batcrap crazy as she is.  Maybe they'll be a perfect match.

I have, but it was sarcastic or as an obvious tease.

Flirting is harmless fun, egos get boosted, people get a laugh or feel a little better about themselves, so long as that is where it stops--and where it was intended to stop (by both parties). Usually that involves some degree of either friendship, or the expectation that the contact is superficial, momentary, and just in fun.

[Quix]

I have, but it was sarcastic or as an obvious tease.

Flirting is harmless fun, egos get boosted, people get a laugh or feel a little better about themselves, so long as that is where it stops--and where it was intended to stop (by both parties). Usually that involves some degree of either friendship, or the expectation that the contact is superficial, momentary, and just in fun.

Agreed.

Though without maturity and discipline it can be a tricky slippery slope.

[Silver Pines]

I see you found a 'batting eyes' gif! LOLOL.

@Quix

Huh?  She's rolling her eyes.

Go ahead, now tell me you've seen a woman do this.  Maybe if she has something stuck behind her contacts, but otherwise...

[Silver Pines]

I have. I don't know what percentage,  but I've seen it . . . both more or less constructively inviting a healthy relationship and seductively as the spider to the fly.

Yes. I was ONLY talking about those women who operated out of a huge deficit of insecurity, RAD fostered control-freakism and manipulation to try and force things to happen with a targeted individual.

There's plenty of that, alright . . . with tons of rather sick co-dependent relationships to show for it.

However, it would be better for both of them to work most of their carp through before getting bonded and then have a much healthier relationship with a better prognosis for it enduring long term.

@Quix

Well, sure.  However, that certain benign manipulation women are able to exert over men has nothing to do with mental or emotional issues.

[Silver Pines]

I have, but it was sarcastic or as an obvious tease.

Flirting is harmless fun, egos get boosted, people get a laugh or feel a little better about themselves, so long as that is where it stops--and where it was intended to stop (by both parties). Usually that involves some degree of either friendship, or the expectation that the contact is superficial, momentary, and just in fun.

@Smokin Joe

Well, flirting isn't necessarily meant to be an end-all and be-all in itself, though.  Many times, it's intended to lead to something more.

[Silver Pines]

Agreed.

Though without maturity and discipline it can be a tricky slippery slope.

@Quix

I'm beginning to think we should administer psychological testing before anyone comes into contact with a desirable member of the opposite sex. It's dangerous out there.

[Quix]

@Quix

Huh?  She's rolling her eyes.

Go ahead, now tell me you've seen a woman do this.  Maybe if she has something stuck behind her contacts, but otherwise...

I think I already told you that I HAD seen such--more than once.

I didn't say it was terribly overwhelmingly common. But it's far from unheard of, in my experience, too.

I've been watching people closely since toddler-hood.

You are welcome to deny my experiences and observations, if you wish.

However, of the two of us, I suspect I'm more of an expert on my experiences, than you are.