Russian ambassador to Turkey assassinated.

[Right_in_Virginia]

If this was the US ambassador dead I know what our President would do - go play a round of golf or attend a fundraiser.

And arrest an innocent filmmaker.

[TomSea]

Valid points?  I guess one would need to know how diplomats operate. Anyone here know? And if all he, this Kuzu, is saying is true.

[VIDEO] Erdoğan adviser: Why didn’t Russian ambassador have a security guard?
By TM - December 20, 2016

urhan Kuzu, an advisor to President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and Justice and Development Party (AKP) İstanbul deputy, questioned why the Russian Embassy in Ankara had not assigned a private Russian guard for Ambassador Andrei Karlov, who was killed by a Turkish police officer while giving a speech at an Ankara art gallery on Monday.

Speaking during a TV show following the assassination of the Russian ambassador, Kuzu said the Russian Embassy in Ankara should have provided Karlov Russian security guards in the same way that Turkey provides guards to all its envoys abroad.

“Why doesn’t the Russian Embassy have any Russian security guards? I don’t understand. OK, we [Turkish authorities] are lax [on security issues]. That’s another issue. However, as we understand it, there were no [Russian guards inside],” he said.

http://www.turkishminute.com/2016/12/20/erdogan-adviser-didnt-russian-ambassador-security-guard/

[TomSea]

Man fires gunshots near US Embassy after killing of Russian envoy
By TM - December 20, 2016
A man identified only as Şahin S. fired several gunshots into the air outside the US Embassy in Ankara a few hours after the assassination of the Russian ambassador at an art gallery in the same district of Çankaya on Monday evening.

Police near the US Embassy detained Şahin S., who shouted “I swear to God, don’t play with us” as he was being put in a police car, and took him to the Ankara Police Station for questioning after seizing his rifle.

No one was hurt by the gunshots.

Continued: http://www.turkishminute.com/2016/12/20/man-fires-gunshots-near-us-embassy-killing-russian-envoy/

"Don't play with us", as bad as this is, it is in their own backyard. Unbelievable. There are other examples of things like this one just doesn't hear about. And we and the Russians might have some thoughts if people were meddling in our business.

And in turn, about refugees, you know, it is kind of the same sentiment, why are we in their land and why are they coming over. Something like that.

[r9etb]

Valid points?  I guess one would need to know how diplomats operate. Anyone here know? And if all he, this Kuzu, is saying is true.

Considering how long the killer walked around lecturing the crowd after he shot the guy, and before they finally shot him dead, Kuzu's quite correct to question why the Russians didn't give their ambassador a security team.  (Much like Obama and Hillary didn't give one to Chris Stevens.)

[verga]

Considering how long the killer walked around lecturing the crowd after he shot the guy, and before they finally shot him dead, Kuzu's quite correct to question why the Russians didn't give their ambassador a security team. (Much like Obama and Hillary didn't give one to Chris Stevens.)

Ouch, that is going to leave a mark.

[sneakypete]

Wow.  Just Wow!

Putin will not step back and let this slide like Obama did.  Blood, a lot of blood, will flow over this one as it should.

 

@doghouse

No kidding. The Soviets didn't play kissy-face with people that attacked their officials,and neither does the current government. It ain't going to be pretty if it is ever made public,but they will do whatever it is they have to do to track down the people behind that attack,and heads will roll. Literally, and at least some of them in public.

They see,and rightly so,an attack on any of their officials as an attack on "Holy Mother Russia",and if you know anything about history you know it doesn't get any more serious than that for them. The people that pushed that nutcase to shoot the ambassador can run and they can hide,but they WILL be found regardless of how much money it takes or how many people have to be "interrogated" in order to follow the trail.

And when it's over,there won't even be a hint of an apology from Putin or anyone else in their government.

[sneakypete]

Nope....what will Putin do is the question...

@mystery-ak

There is no doubt in my mind what he is focused on at the moment,and that is tracking down and killing everyone even remotely responsible for this murder.

What he will do after that depends on what Turkey does. I hope they aren't foolish enough to seriously believe that Europe and the US will send them military aid if they decide to attack Russia for what Putin will have done to some ragheads living in Turkey.

As I wrote earlier,it is the nature of the Russians to consider an attack on prominent Russian officials as an attack on "Holy Mother Russia" herself,and they won't be taking any prisoners. Or at least not many that won't get a quick trial and quick execution if found inside Russia.

Which is the way the US Government should operate,but won't.

[sneakypete]

Talks were scheduled for Tuesday between Russia, Iran and Turkey in Moscow, so chances are, those will be cancelled.  http://www.aina.org/news/20161219132405.htm

@TomSea

Which is what most likely put the cop/assassin plan in motion. The fundie Muslims can't afford to face a united force because they couldn't survive it,so they did this to break the alliance before it even formed.

IF the leadership in Turkey has enough sense to pour urine out of a boot,they will VERY quickly announce they are cooperating fully with the Russians to find and bring to justice anyone else associated with the attack on the Russian Ambassador,and then do just that.

[sneakypete]

Will NATO stand behind Turkey if Russia attacks, even in a limited manner?

@Oceander

I don't see that happening. I may well be wrong,but I see NATO as being seen in Europe as a useful tool to use the money and military might of America as their own troops so they can have smaller militaries and smaller defense budgets.

The big question may be "What will the US and GB do?" Especially since Bathhouse Barry is still making the decisions for the next 30 days.

[sneakypete]

How can one vet when this assassin must have had clearance. No diplomat is safe, virtually no one is.

@TomSea

I'm sure that one of the VERY pointed questions being asked of the Turkish government right now is "WHY was this 22 year old Muslim the ONLY armed security officer in the room at the time the Russian Ambassador was giving his speech?" There SHOULD have been multiple teams of armed police or military security people on site at the time. Especially given the tensions in that area from fundie Muslim attacks on everyone. Whoever was placed in charge of security there is in a heap of trouble,including the security people from the Russian Embassy. Why weren't THEY there? Ambassadors almost never go anywhere without a security team in place from their own embassy. Were they not there because someone in the Turkism government wouldn't allow them in the building?

It's too early to know these things yet,but you can believe these questions are being asked at very high levels.

[sneakypete]

Another question is what will the UN do?

@verga

Form a circle jerk?

That seems to be what they do best.

[sneakypete]

Putin might have arranged this as a pretext

@geronl

I'm not a betting man,but if I were,I would bet there is not even the tiniest chance of that having happened.

[sneakypete]

Valid points?  I guess one would need to know how diplomats operate. Anyone here know? And if all he, this Kuzu, is saying is true.

@TomSea

IF the head security officer at the Russian Embassy in Turkey did not send a bodyguard escort with the Ambassador because it was HIS decision to not do so,he has been running for his life ever since the raghead pulled the trigger.

I have been in a few embassies and known a few people that worked in embassies many,many years ago,and US Ambassadors don't go to the coffee shop across the street without having security with them.

Given that Russians are generally not considered to be the lease paranoid people in the world,for many,many good historical reasons,I find it hard to believe the Russian head of Embassy security would take it upon himself to make such a decision.

Either the Ambassador himself ordered his security to stay in the embassy,or the Turkish government for some reason denied them entry into the building where the Russian Ambassador was giving the speech. IF the Ambassador entered anyhow,that's on him as well as the Turkish government because there is NO excuse for the Turkish government to have have that room flooded with teams of armed security guards. It just boggles the imagination that a lone 22 year old plainclothes cop could get anywhere close to a Russian Ambassador by himself unless the other Turkish security agents were told to stand down by their own government.

Normally the room they are in would be sealed off with sub-machine gun toting guards from every country involved guarding the doors and patrolling the halls,the basement,and the parking garages. ID's are checked before anyone enters the room,and wands are used to check for concealed weapons. MAYBE a VERY senior police official from the host nation MIGHT be allowed through the door by himself,but I can't think of any circumstances were a very junior cop is allowed in the room by himself and with a weapon.

[TomSea]

@TomSea

Which is what most likely put the cop/assassin plan in motion. The fundie Muslims can't afford to face a united force because they couldn't survive it,so they did this to break the alliance before it even formed.

IF the leadership in Turkey has enough sense to pour urine out of a boot,they will VERY quickly announce they are cooperating fully with the Russians to find and bring to justice anyone else associated with the attack on the Russian Ambassador,and then do just that.

@sneakypete
The talks are scheduled to go on.

http://www.rferl.org/a/best-frenemies/28186842.html
Graphic per Putin and Erdogan.

[Fishrrman]

sneakypete wonders:
"There SHOULD have been multiple teams of armed police or military security people on site at the time. Especially given the tensions in that area from fundie Muslim attacks on everyone. Whoever was placed in charge of security there is in a heap of trouble,including the security people from the Russian Embassy. Why weren't THEY there?"

Maybe they were advised, or paid, to NOT "be there"...

[sneakypete]

sneakypete wonders:
"There SHOULD have been multiple teams of armed police or military security people on site at the time. Especially given the tensions in that area from fundie Muslim attacks on everyone. Whoever was placed in charge of security there is in a heap of trouble,including the security people from the Russian Embassy. Why weren't THEY there?"

Maybe they were advised, or paid, to NOT "be there"...

@Fishrrman

Naw,can't be. That would be like telling or bribing the Secret Service to not protect US politicians that have been threatened. The only ones that could order the Russian embassy security detail to not escort the Russian Ambassador to a public event outside the embassy would be Putin or the Ambassador himself,and both seem very unlikely to do that to me.

Given that it's Russia we are talking about,we may never know who was behind ordering the embassy security detail to remain at the embassy.

There are deeper waters swirling around this event than anything I can even guess at,at this point.

[doghouse]

Demands were made from Russia and the Turks walked the line. 

It took the Turks about nine hours to kill the shooter.

I'm sure that was not the only demand but it bought some time for some folks to cool down and think things out.

It the Turks had not killed the shooter or turned him over to the Russians this would have exploded rather quickly.

Screw Obama and his pacivist  ideas this was none of his or our countries business.  The powers that be in this world do not give a hot damn what the cowardly US government thinks anymore. 

Lesson to Obama.  When you draw a line in the sand and do not react when it is crossed you show yourself as a coward.  That is now how our enemies and our friends see us. 

It is great that Trump has a spine and gonads and we can attain some respect in this world again.

[Hoodat]

Lesson to Obama.  When you draw a line in the sand and do not react when it is crossed you show yourself as a coward.  That is now how our enemies and our friends see us.

That should be a lesson to America about what happens when you put an Obama in office.  Not even Jimmy Carter was this weak.

It is great that Trump has a spine and gonads and we can attain some respect in this world again.

Trump also has 'crazy' going for him, which can be quite effective on the diplomatic stage.

[Quix]

@verga

Form a circle jerk?

That seems to be what they do best.

I thought their specialty was such a group . . . made up of eunuchs.