Author Topic: EPA chief says Trump has limited room to scrap climate rules McCarthy says any attempt must be scientifically justified under Clean Air Act  (Read 1906 times)

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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The chief architect of President Barack Obama’s climate change policies has warned the incoming Trump administration that US law and the scientific evidence of global warming will constrain any attempt to overturn her work.

With the outlook for global climate action uncertain after the US election, Gina McCarthy, the top US environmental regulator, told the Financial Times that climate change sceptics led by Donald Trump would have limited room for manoeuvre.

“It’s going to be a very high burden of proof for them,” said Ms McCarthy, the head of the Environmental Protection Agency, outlining why US law would ensure that Mr Trump could not easily abolish climate change regulations.

Mr Trump’s presidential victory delivered a shock to global efforts to tackle climate change. He vowed in his campaign to withdraw from the 2015 Paris climate pact and to end US funding for UN climate programmes.

The president-elect has embraced the Republican party’s doubts on global warming, tweeting in 2012 that it was a hoax invented by China. This month he said it was “a big scam for a lot of people to make a lot of money”, but on the scientific evidence declared: “I’m still open-minded. Nobody really knows.”

Ms McCarthy said: “I frankly am disappointed that we’re still talking about the science of climate, because that really has been long settled.”

To replace Ms McCarthy, Mr Trump has nominated Scott Pruitt, a politician who has repeatedly excoriated the EPA and made it his mission to try to scupper her signature achievements.

Ms McCarthy said that, just as she had to provide a scientific foundation for her regulations to curb carbon dioxide emissions, the Trump administration would be required by the Clean Air Act to show that any attempt to tear up the regulations was scientifically justified.

“If they choose [to] develop a different record then they have a right to do that, but it’s going to be a very high burden of proof for them, because I have no question that what we have done will be solid from a science perspective,” she said.
https://www.ft.com/content/e4759fea-c491-11e6-8f29-9445cac8966f

There is something wrong with the liberal brain.

One needs no justification to install environmental rules, but one needs 'science' to remove them?

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Offline Suppressed

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There is something wrong with the liberal brain.

One needs no justification to install environmental rules, but one needs 'science' to remove them?

Justification was provided and the opportunity to comment was offered.
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Offline Hondo69

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If I was trump I'd just recycle a few of Obama's standard lines:

"I'm willing to go it alone."

"Elections have consequences."

"So sue me."

Offline Gov Bean Counter

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Ms McCarthy said: “I frankly am disappointed that we’re still talking about the science of climate, because that really has been long settled.”

No it hasn't.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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If I was trump I'd just recycle a few of Obama's standard lines:

"I'm willing to go it alone."

"Elections have consequences."

"So sue me."

The truth is that there are certain procedures that must be undertaken to either add or remove regulations.  If those procedures are ignored by a President, a court can strike them down.  That actually happened to Obama.  One thing Trump could do is direct the EPA --  through executive order -- not to enforce certain regs, though some still could be enforced via private actions.

Of course, the easiest end-run around those regulatory requirements is just get Congress to repeal them.

Offline INVAR

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Abolish the EPA, and then there is no "enforcement" of bogus, silly, Communist and stupid 'environazi rules' intended to cripple American Industry.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Justification was provided and the opportunity to comment was offered.

Likely about the same amount of comment time as that for the Christmas Eve approval by Dems only of Obamacare, eh?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

HonestJohn

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If I was trump I'd just recycle a few of Obama's standard lines:

"I'm willing to go it alone."

"Elections have consequences."

"So sue me."

Well, now.

It's pretty obvious that you have no issues with those statements or the behavior behind them.

For if you did, you'd never espouse *DOING* something you despise.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Justification was provided and the opportunity to comment was offered.

And am certain these have also had the proper scientific input as well.
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,121580.msg492639.html#msg492639
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Offline Frank Cannon

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More delusion from the Left. They really believe that these edicts from a failed President will stay in effect like the Constitution. Everything Obama did outside of congress can be flushed down the toilet in the first minute of Trumps installation.

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Abolish the EPA, and then there is no "enforcement" of bogus, silly, Communist and stupid 'environazi rules' intended to cripple American Industry.

I heartily second the motion!!!
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Online DCPatriot

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Abolish the EPA, and then there is no "enforcement" of bogus, silly, Communist and stupid 'environazi rules' intended to cripple American Industry.

The concept McCarthy is using is that the "Clean Air Act", is legislated law and that law is to serve as a moat around a myriad of 2009-2107 EOs and EPA-regulations and 'law' unfriendly to business and development.

...or am I mistaken?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 01:45:34 am by DCPatriot »
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Offline INVAR

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The concept McCarthy is using is that the "Clean Air Act", is legislated law and that law is to serve as a moat around a myriad of 2009-2107 EOs and EPA-regulations and 'law' unfriendly to business and development.

...or am I mistaken?

Legislation would require new legislation to revamp.

However, the EPA is an agency created by Nixon via EO. 

It can be abolished in the same exact manner it was created.

Congress would have to find another agency to empower enforcement of the CAA.

Which is fine by me.
Fart for freedom, fart for liberty and fart proudly.  - Benjamin Franklin

...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline Hondo69

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Well, now.

It's pretty obvious that you have no issues with those statements or the behavior behind them.

For if you did, you'd never espouse *DOING* something you despise.

I see you're applying a bit of logic as well as a dose of ethics to the situation, neither or which have any place within the confines of the EPA.  It's a sad state of affairs I'll admit, but when the other side is playing dirty pool it makes no sense whatsoever to stick to Marquess of Queensberry rules.

Remember, this is an agency so corrupt they operate largely in secret.  Even when directed by Congress to make public their secrets they flip Congress the bird and tell them to pound sand.  And when someone sues the EPA and wins, the agency responds by ignoring the court order making a mockery of our justice system.  The EPA is so corrupt they ignore Congress and feel they are above the law.

Now if Congress had a backbone they would cut funding to the EPA until they begin to operate like a respectable agency and make their methods transparent.  But if pigs could fly bacon would be air mailed to my front door.

Which brings us back to the main dilemma.  It is the same one that is getting ready to be played out before us not just with the EPA, but with the IRS, Homeland Security and several other agencies as well.  What do you do with an agency that is too broken to fix?


Well, we know what doesn't work.  We have decades of evidence showing us exactly what not to do.  That leaves us with an ugly alternative, one that I definitely do despise.  But reality is what it is and often times it just ain't pretty when you go to war with the big boys.  As Churchill stated, "When you have to kill a man it requires no additional effort to be polite about it."

So you cut them off at the knees, and if you're tricky about it you make it look like their fault.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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EPA could be retained as a cross border environmental agency only. All of it's other functions could be handled by state or local governments.

Offline Suppressed

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The concept McCarthy is using is that the "Clean Air Act", is legislated law and that law is to serve as a moat around a myriad of 2009-2107 EOs and EPA-regulations and 'law' unfriendly to business and development.

...or am I mistaken?

The law doesn't protect the EOs, but law authorizes the regulations.
+++++++++
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Offline INVAR

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Remember, this is an agency so corrupt they operate largely in secret.  Even when directed by Congress to make public their secrets they flip Congress the bird and tell them to pound sand.  And when someone sues the EPA and wins, the agency responds by ignoring the court order making a mockery of our justice system.  The EPA is so corrupt they ignore Congress and feel they are above the law.

Now if Congress had a backbone they would cut funding to the EPA until they begin to operate like a respectable agency and make their methods transparent.  But if pigs could fly bacon would be air mailed to my front door.

Which brings us back to the main dilemma.  It is the same one that is getting ready to be played out before us not just with the EPA, but with the IRS, Homeland Security and several other agencies as well.  What do you do with an agency that is too broken to fix?


Well, we know what doesn't work.  We have decades of evidence showing us exactly what not to do.  That leaves us with an ugly alternative, one that I definitely do despise.  But reality is what it is and often times it just ain't pretty when you go to war with the big boys.  As Churchill stated, "When you have to kill a man it requires no additional effort to be polite about it."

So you cut them off at the knees, and if you're tricky about it you make it look like their fault.

The EPA was created by an Executive Order.  It can be terminated as an agency in the same manner.

In addition to having Congress cut ALL of it's funding.

It will be an ugly battle - and the Left will go apeshit crazy if shutting it down actually happened - but given the benefits to "MAGA" - I submit that is one of the top 5 things Trump would HAVE to do if that meme had any chance of being realized beyond trite sloganeering to get elected.
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...Obsta principiis—Nip the shoots of arbitrary power in the bud, is the only maxim which can ever preserve the liberties of any people. When the people give way, their deceivers, betrayers and destroyers press upon them so fast that there is no resisting afterwards. The nature of the encroachment upon [the] American constitution is such, as to grow every day more and more encroaching. Like a cancer, it eats faster and faster every hour." - John Adams, February 6, 1775

Offline dfwgator

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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The law doesn't protect the EOs, but law authorizes the regulations.

Regulations are interpretative by the agency and hence, can be changed to fit the law.

Most laws allow great discretion by the Executive Branch in implementation.

Besides, with the current President, we have now precedent for Executive in not enforcing laws passed by Congress, so the point is mute.

Trump can change the EPA's role in rule-making and how he chooses to enforce the law.
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Offline Suppressed

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The EPA was created by an Executive Order. 

...an executive order ratified by House and Senate committees.

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It can be terminated as an agency in the same manner.

And the Trump Administration would immediately be in violation of a myriad of laws if that happened.  The EPA and/or federal government is directed by legislation -- passed by Congress and signed by the Executive -- to do a number of things....not the least of which is to carry out the NEPA of 1969, which was why the EPA was created in the first place!

Quote
It will be an ugly battle - and the Left will go apeshit crazy if shutting it down actually happened - but given the benefits to "MAGA" - I submit that is one of the top 5 things Trump would HAVE to do if that meme had any chance of being realized beyond trite sloganeering to get elected.

Not only the Left would fight this, but those who value the rule of law.  The appropriate way to do it is to amend the laws that mandate the existence of the EPA, not just act on executive fiat like a banana republic.

Note, I'm not denying that the EPA has overstepped its bounds, nor that they are a travesty in many ways!


Note also, IANAL.
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Online Free Vulcan

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Regulations are interpretative by the agency and hence, can be changed to fit the law.

Most laws allow great discretion by the Executive Branch in implementation.

Besides, with the current President, we have now precedent for Executive in not enforcing laws passed by Congress, so the point is mute.

Trump can change the EPA's role in rule-making and how he chooses to enforce the law.

Which hints at the broader move - we need regulatory and agency reform. Not only regulations, but the tendency of bureaucratic bloat in govt as a result of unrestrained rule making.

The Republic is lost.

Offline Suppressed

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Which hints at the broader move - we need regulatory and agency reform. Not only regulations, but the tendency of bureaucratic bloat in govt as a result of unrestrained rule making.

Most people evidently can't even be bothered to comment on regulations that are proposed at https://www.regulations.gov/ ...they just whine about them after the fact.  Why should we expect any modification of rule making?
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“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Online Free Vulcan

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Most people evidently can't even be bothered to comment on regulations that are proposed at https://www.regulations.gov/ ...they just whine about them after the fact.  Why should we expect any modification of rule making?

If I had a couple a billion dollars, and a staff of 100, maybe I could find the time to research, analyze, and comment on the blizzard of regulations that come out each and every day in Cloward-Piven fashion.

Please don't insult my intelligence.
The Republic is lost.

Offline thackney

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Legislation would require new legislation to revamp.

However, the EPA is an agency created by Nixon via EO. 

It can be abolished in the same exact manner it was created.

Congress would have to find another agency to empower enforcement of the CAA.

Which is fine by me.

Nixon created the EPA by executive order on December 2, 1970.  But it was in response to the National Environmental Policy Act, January 1, 1970.  This legislation directed the President to assemble in his Cabinet a Council on Environmental Quality.  The legislation requires a cabinet level environmental group regardless of what name you give it.
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