Author Topic: Maybe John Roberts did us a favor by saving ObamaCare  (Read 3380 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Maybe John Roberts did us a favor by saving ObamaCare
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2016, 02:42:09 pm »
Two points:  years ago I worked for two retired doctors.  They didn't want to quit working entirely, but didn't want to do a doctor's full time, so they split the practice. 

Each had a nurse and we all worked ~25hours/week.  They didn't take insurance; you paid when you came in the door, and we gave you the filled out claim form for you to submit to your insurance provider.  Sounds prohibitive, right?  It wasn't.  Turns out most routine medical care is affordable - as long as you don't layer the administrative costs on top of it. 

This was a small ranching community and we treated pretty much everyone who came in the door.  And, did so in the black.  Of course that couldn't happen now.  That sort of community responsive, fiscally responsible practice wouldn't be allowed to exist now.

Second point: "insurance" that collects money from you to pay for routine costs isn't insurance.  It's a health-care scam.  Insurance pays for unanticipated costs. Before 0bamacare, one could buy a "catastrophic" plan that did just that: provided for payment above and beyond normal routine care.  It had a high deductible, and you paid out of pocket for everything under the deductible. 

Online roamer_1

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Re: Maybe John Roberts did us a favor by saving ObamaCare
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2016, 02:52:30 pm »

I want to agree with you as I believe a free market is the answer.  However, in real life things get complicated.  Without laws and regulations companies would do nothing but what makes them money.   A free market concept says consumer pressure would force business to make changes.  That only works where consumers have choice. 

@driftdiver

That's right - and even without insurance, where health care is concerned, consumer 'choice' is limited by a stratified field of high-end specialists... I was in the trades most of my life, and there's a reason why plumbers and electricians cost considerably more than the other trades - They are stratified by licensing and regulation. And that is not only reflected in the trades, but in the supply chain as well...  A pair of Klien Linesman pliers cost two to three times as much if boxed for electricians in comparison to the very same pliers boxed for the general trades... Because the licensed trades can get more, the whole supply chain can get more.

A secondary tier of professionals of a lower grade than 'doctor'...say nurses... legally capable of providing care would shake up the whole thing... That is what would happen normally if it wasn't a licensed and regulated field - If folks can't afford the best thing, they would gravitate to the level they could afford. And if a tier or niche could be exploited, you can bet your life some entrepreneur would move in to take an advantage.

Making folks go to a doctor, or even an emergency room, just to get a few stitches is comparable to renting a Lamborghini to get you around. ABSURD costs. My kid's boy went in for 5 stitches and the bill was over 500 bucks. Any competent nurse could do that for under 100. Shoot, I can't even tell you how many times my family prac stitched me up on his kitchen table at 8 o'clock at night - And even in those circumstances, I ain't ever paid more than 100 bucks to get stitched in my life.
 

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Most companies would not spend money on computer security until they were forced to.  Even today many will not, because the executive making the decision is willing to gamble that nothing will happen on his watch.

Of course - no one is saying a free market has *no* regulation. There has to be a guarantee on the coin of the realm, and on weights and measures, and etc. So by it's nature commerce must have some regulation. But when a sector of the economy is astronomically high, and competition is not working, there is inevitably a series of props holding those prices up... One of those props is invariably going to be licensing and regulation.

Governs least governs best, after all. 

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The amount of regulation imposed on health care is staggering.  I know of one health system that spent 9% of its annual budge of nearly $1 billion just on compliance with billing regulations.

Indeed. The entire chain, supply-side, insurance-side, service-side is horribly inflated.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 02:52:56 pm by roamer_1 »

Online Bigun

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Re: Maybe John Roberts did us a favor by saving ObamaCare
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2016, 03:35:24 pm »
Two points:  years ago I worked for two retired doctors.  They didn't want to quit working entirely, but didn't want to do a doctor's full time, so they split the practice. 

Each had a nurse and we all worked ~25hours/week.  They didn't take insurance; you paid when you came in the door, and we gave you the filled out claim form for you to submit to your insurance provider.  Sounds prohibitive, right?  It wasn't.  Turns out most routine medical care is affordable - as long as you don't layer the administrative costs on top of it. 

This was a small ranching community and we treated pretty much everyone who came in the door.  And, did so in the black.  Of course that couldn't happen now.  That sort of community responsive, fiscally responsible practice wouldn't be allowed to exist now.

Second point: "insurance" that collects money from you to pay for routine costs isn't insurance.  It's a health-care scam.  Insurance pays for unanticipated costs. Before 0bamacare, one could buy a "catastrophic" plan that did just that: provided for payment above and beyond normal routine care.  It had a high deductible, and you paid out of pocket for everything under the deductible.

LORD have mercy girl!  We can't be havin no ideas that make sense round here!  Good Lord! People might begin to think they are FREE and such!
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Maybe John Roberts did us a favor by saving ObamaCare
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2016, 06:05:27 pm »
years ago I worked for two retired doctors.  They didn't want to quit working entirely, but didn't want to do a doctor's full time, so they split the practice. 

Each had a nurse and we all worked ~25hours/week.  They didn't take insurance; you paid when you came in the door, and we gave you the filled out claim form for you to submit to your insurance provider.  Sounds prohibitive, right?  It wasn't.  Turns out most routine medical care is affordable - as long as you don't layer the administrative costs on top of it. 

This was a small ranching community and we treated pretty much everyone who came in the door.  And, did so in the black.  Of course that couldn't happen now.  That sort of community responsive, fiscally responsible practice wouldn't be allowed to exist now.
That's the way it should be. I still pay for the health care I need out of pocket. (It pretty much amounts to a trivial amount mainly for dental care, which is hard to find around here anyway; I'm lucky to otherwise be in excellent health.)

The problem is that the Democrats want to soak people like me, who don't use the health care system that much, for the exorbitant costs of the chronically ill. That's what the whole Obamacare system is set up to do, and they sell it as insurance as if someday we'll use it. That's not necessarily true; I may never actually need to dip into an insurance fund until I reach Medicare age.

Yet they'll settle for pushing people onto Medicaid, which is what the vast majority in new signups really are—they don't pay into the system, and there's no need for them to sign up, yet they'll proudly tout that "coverage" is the end-all and be-all.

It's really about "control."
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