Poll

Did Federal, Presidential high level leaders know ahead of time Pearl Harbor was coming; had set it up to happen; insured it happened?

Absolutely. The historical evidence is exceedingly conclusive from  multiple sources
3 (11.1%)
Nonsense. Totally fabricated conspiracy hogwash with absolutely no foundation in fact
21 (77.8%)
I believe it was at about the 80-95% level. It's horrible to admit it but the evidence is there.
2 (7.4%)
I think there may be a 5-15% chance a lot of it was set-up and insured to happen but I don't want to face such a horrible probability.
1 (3.7%)
Indeed. The globalist oligarchy has been ruthlessly at work a long time.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 24

Voting closed: December 10, 2016, 03:32:02 am

Author Topic: R U Aware/Do U Believe Pearl Harbor Was Deliberately Set-up & Allowed to Happen?  (Read 7959 times)

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Offline Quix

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I have read most of that. And watched the shows.

Interesting how people scream about the GOP-Elite. Or the elite in general in DC but won't step that up.

Is it the Council On Foreign Relations I am thinking of now? Do you know about that?

Certainly the CFR is in the thick of it.

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Offline Quix

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I actually took it over, equating 'loading docks' with 'factory floor' and got an 81.

Take the test over, forgetting what it is for, and use 'Are you a Redneck' as the question. Anyone I know would score high on that thing... Could it be that it's construction was attempted by one with an in-built collegiate liberal bias?

Likewise.

But that's just it - with the exception of my Christian-Messianic bend, I am *not* odd-man-out. There is a giant swath of Jesus-land flyover country that would score well on your test...

And I would suggest that indeed there is a bubble on the other end...

Well put.

May get around to taking it over.

What do you mean by a bubble on the other end?

I think the test was constructed it such that ivory towered upper class elites were in a huge and relatively impermeable bubble. Those of lower class and more diverse life and work experiences weren't.
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Offline Quix

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I have read most of that. And watched the shows.

Interesting how people scream about the GOP-Elite. Or the elite in general in DC but won't step that up.

Is it the Council On Foreign Relations I am thinking of now? Do you know about that?

I forget which famous tyrant said something to the effect:

"The best way to deal with the opposition is to lead it."

They are masters at that. The GOP/DEMS have been  used in such a fashion from the beginning.
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Offline roamer_1

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I think the test was constructed it such that ivory towered upper class elites were in a huge and relatively impermeable bubble. Those of lower class and more diverse life and work experiences weren't.

Right, I get the idea, but it's construction elicits a particular 'normalcy bias'. What is 'normal' according to the author can be deduced by the factoring, IMHO.

Quote
What do you mean by a bubble on the other end?

Being 'anti-institutional','anti-modern science','anti-government', sets one up to be rather 'organic knowledge','alt-science', 'libertarian independence' and in fairly close locus to conspiracy theories... A penchant to believe in these rather than the other. A 'bias toward', as it were.

To take the edge off of what I am saying, let my example be different than the current topic... Let's say, 'modern flat-earth theory'...

I was introduced to it by Rob Skiba, who I listen to quite a bit... His discovery thereof sent him on a tear, and with my biases being what they are, I was inclined to believe him somewhat. Now, I never did buy the t-shirt, as it were, for only one reason:

The northern hemisphere sky revolves around the north, and the southern hemisphere revolves around the south - There is no viable construct of 'flat earth' that can account for that very basic, naturally observable fact.

But there ARE arguments that make perfect sense otherwise... According to science, the roundness of the earth prevents one from seeing something flat for more than 20 miles... IOW, the other end of that flat surface should be some 4 ft below the horizon... I, myself, have disproved that by standing on the beach at Bigfork on a clear day, being able to see the beach at Polson - Across Flathead Lake - A distance of over 50 miles.

The science must needfully be wrong - But that doesn't make 'Flat-Earth' theory right... See? But many, MANY are falling for it.

I examine things differently - I look at the errata, not the evidences. ONE error will disprove a mountainous theory, no matter how well embraced. That is the only reason I stand off from most conspiracy theories.

I lost a very good friend who had gone so far down the troofer trail as to have to claim that the towers fell because of advanced black-ops nuclear bombs that literally disintegrated them in place. He could not accept my friendship because I would not believe his research, even though he had to dip deeply into sci-fi fairytales to arrive at his wholly unproved (and unable to be proved) position.

I believe a lot of what you do - But I must use great caution to reside on the provable edge... or just a bit over it.

Offline Quix

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Makes sense, to me. Thanks. Much, greatly agree.

Right, I get the idea, but it's construction elicits a particular 'normalcy bias'. What is 'normal' according to the author can be deduced by the factoring, IMHO.

Being 'anti-institutional','anti-modern science','anti-government', sets one up to be rather 'organic knowledge','alt-science', 'libertarian independence' and in fairly close locus to conspiracy theories... A penchant to believe in these rather than the other. A 'bias toward', as it were.

To take the edge off of what I am saying, let my example be different than the current topic... Let's say, 'modern flat-earth theory'...

I was introduced to it by Rob Skiba, who I listen to quite a bit... His discovery thereof sent him on a tear, and with my biases being what they are, I was inclined to believe him somewhat. Now, I never did buy the t-shirt, as it were, for only one reason:

The northern hemisphere sky revolves around the north, and the southern hemisphere revolves around the south - There is no viable construct of 'flat earth' that can account for that very basic, naturally observable fact.

But there ARE arguments that make perfect sense otherwise... According to science, the roundness of the earth prevents one from seeing something flat for more than 20 miles... IOW, the other end of that flat surface should be some 4 ft below the horizon... I, myself, have disproved that by standing on the beach at Bigfork on a clear day, being able to see the beach at Polson - Across Flathead Lake - A distance of over 50 miles.

The science must needfully be wrong - But that doesn't make 'Flat-Earth' theory right... See? But many, MANY are falling for it.

I examine things differently - I look at the errata, not the evidences. ONE error will disprove a mountainous theory, no matter how well embraced. That is the only reason I stand off from most conspiracy theories.

I lost a very good friend who had gone so far down the troofer trail as to have to claim that the towers fell because of advanced black-ops nuclear bombs that literally disintegrated them in place. He could not accept my friendship because I would not believe his research, even though he had to dip deeply into sci-fi fairytales to arrive at his wholly unproved (and unable to be proved) position.

I believe a lot of what you do - But I must use great caution to reside on the provable edge... or just a bit over it.
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Offline EC

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I scored a 52. "A first-generation upper-middle-class person with middle-class parents."

However, the quiz had a trick question: it asked to identify Jimmie Johnson as either a NASCAR driver or a former NFL Football coach, when of course the answer is both!

65 for me. "A lifelong resident of a working-class neighborhood with average television and movie going habits."

Should be slightly higher, because when I did drink I would have ticked yes for cheapass beer for the fridge.

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Offline Cripplecreek

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The more posts I read from Quix... The more I think [mod snip].

 :silly:
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 07:08:28 pm by Quix »

Online bigheadfred

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I think the point of the 'bubble' term was that individuals in too much of a bubble

had no real, accurate, functional, etc. awareness of who other people were, their values, priorities, goals, and how they lived.

Sooner or later--depending on the numbers involved and the situations involved, that can become costly--even life threatening.

At some point, such a bubble becomes about as functional as the bubble a schizophrenic lives in.

And my point in including it in this thread . . . is that folks who live in a bubble utterly denying the facts of the very real and long-lived, effective, powerful globalist conspiracy stuff operant in our era are setting themselves up to be blooded by such realities in the not distant future--prematurely and maybe somewhat needlessly.

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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Well put.

May get around to taking it over.

What do you mean by a bubble on the other end?

I think the test was constructed it such that ivory towered upper class elites were in a huge and relatively impermeable bubble. Those of lower class and more diverse life and work experiences weren't.
I only got a 45, but I'm guessing my complete and utter lack of devotion to the swill Hollywood puts out must have figured in. I'll just stay in my bubble with my magazines and books. Furthermore it is NOT my fault waffle house hasn't put a location up in my neck of the woods and the local tex mex hang out isn't on the list.  :laugh:
Interesting concept though, thanks for posting it @Quix
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 04:14:15 pm by Idaho_Cowboy »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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I only got a 45, but I'm guessing my complete and utter lack of devotion to the swill Hollywood puts out must have figured in. I'll just stay in my bubble with my magazines and books. Furthermore it is NOT my fault waffle house hasn't put a location up in my neck of the woods and the local tex mex hang out isn't on the list.  :laugh:
Interesting concept though, thanks for posting it @Quix
I took it and got a 53, then went back and corrected the 'uniform' answer, because I did wear one as a firefighter, even though we only used them for parades and special occasions. Turnout gear was enough over whatever we were wearing when we got there for work. That got me up to a 61. I don't watch sitcoms or many network shows, haven't since I realized the 'laugh track' was being used to alter what people thought was funny. (That's another spiel).

We don't have any of those restaurants, either, not within a few hundred miles, so while I have eaten at a couple of them, it hasn't been for quite a few years and doesn't count.

I found some of the questions odd, too, and didn't fit the situation of a kid growing up in the sticks on a tobacco farm, making extra by crabbing and selling the catch to restaurants (what we didn't eat) or baling hay with my uncle, but my father had a white collar job for the Navy.
So, there was a lot of worldview that the questions wouldn't pick up on that I did, from farm hands, to watermen, to time as a firefighter, construction work and the like, even before I went off to college and then the oil patch. But as far as keeping up with the latest fashion or trendy stuff, not so much. I like comfortable, and that includes a vehicle I have been driving for years and can operate instinctively, and a minimum of tech stuff to demand my attention. So, if that is a 'bubble', well, I embrace it. Maybe I can find a place to hang it in my library.
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I believe Quix is an alien on loan from the mother ship.



Quix,


Can you prove you're not?



Offline Quix

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I believe Quix is an alien on loan from the mother ship.



Quix,

Can you prove you're not?


LOLOLOL

No comment.

. . . except . . . to rebuke that hideous notion from hell that I'd be anything close to a fallen angel, in the Name of Yeshua. Amen.

I'm plenty flawed but not THAT BAD!

Harumph.

LOL.
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Offline Quix

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I took it and got a 53, then went back and corrected the 'uniform' answer, because I did wear one as a firefighter, even though we only used them for parades and special occasions. Turnout gear was enough over whatever we were wearing when we got there for work. That got me up to a 61. I don't watch sitcoms or many network shows, haven't since I realized the 'laugh track' was being used to alter what people thought was funny. (That's another spiel).

We don't have any of those restaurants, either, not within a few hundred miles, so while I have eaten at a couple of them, it hasn't been for quite a few years and doesn't count.

I found some of the questions odd, too, and didn't fit the situation of a kid growing up in the sticks on a tobacco farm, making extra by crabbing and selling the catch to restaurants (what we didn't eat) or baling hay with my uncle, but my father had a white collar job for the Navy.
So, there was a lot of worldview that the questions wouldn't pick up on that I did, from farm hands, to watermen, to time as a firefighter, construction work and the like, even before I went off to college and then the oil patch. But as far as keeping up with the latest fashion or trendy stuff, not so much. I like comfortable, and that includes a vehicle I have been driving for years and can operate instinctively, and a minimum of tech stuff to demand my attention. So, if that is a 'bubble', well, I embrace it. Maybe I can find a place to hang it in my library.

My sense of the NPR survey thing was that it was a rare case of NPR challenging liberal idiots to look at themselves and their bubbles. IIRC, the higher the number, the LESS of a bubble one had.   50 is not that much bubble. 75 is very little bubble.
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Offline Quix

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I only got a 45, but I'm guessing my complete and utter lack of devotion to the swill Hollywood puts out must have figured in. I'll just stay in my bubble with my magazines and books. Furthermore it is NOT my fault waffle house hasn't put a location up in my neck of the woods and the local tex mex hang out isn't on the list.  :laugh:
Interesting concept though, thanks for posting it @Quix

LOLOL.
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Offline the_doc

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I believe Quix is an alien on loan from the mother ship.


Quix,


Can you prove you're not?




@Quix

Dear @Weird Tolkienish Figure:

Earnest T. is a good friend of mine. I try not to alienate him.

Signed,
Ernest P. Worrell

Offline Quix

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@Quix

Dear @Weird Tolkienish Figure:

Earnest T. is a good friend of mine. I try not to alienate him.

Signed,
Ernest P. Worrell

Now, now.

Some seem to be allergic to gracious civility.

You trying to make them hyper-ventilate? Or, have a stroke?

/sarc
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Offline Quix

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I just realized . . . I believe Pearl Harbor is important because I'm utterly convinced that a worse than Pearl Harbor has been planned and will be lit off. I don't know what, exactly or when or where. I suspect it will involve nukes and 1 or more major USA cities.


Sometimes,
as with our poll,
the majority,
are  simply
WRONG
.

BTW, your poll vote can be changed--I think up to about 22:00 something tonight

https://www.amazon.com/Day-Deceit-Truth-About-Harbor-ebook/dp/B000FBJHTO/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1481293072&sr=1-1&keywords=day+of+deceit
.
DAY OF DECEIT

Amazon blurb  {emphases & increased paragraphing added}:

Quote
Pearl Harbor was  not an acccident, a mere failure of American intelligence, or a brilliant Japanese military coup. It was the result of a carefully orchestrated design, initiated at the highest levels of our government. According to a key memorandum eight steps were taken to make sure we would enter the war by this means. Pearl Harbor was the only way, leading officials felt, to galvanize the reluctant American public into action.
.
This great question of Pearl Harbor--what did we know and when did we know it?--has been argued for years . . . But no investigator has ever been able to prove that fore-knowledge of the attack existed at the highest levels.
.
Until now. After decades of Freedom of Information Act requests, Robert B. Stinnett has gathered the long-hidden evidence that shatters every shibboleth of Pearl Harbor. It shows that not only was the attack expected, it was deliberately provoked through an eight-step program devised by the Navy.
.
Whereas previous investigators have claimed that our government did not crack Japan's military codes before December 7, 1941, Stinnett offers cable after cable of decryptions. He proves that a Japanese spy on the island transmitted information--including a map of bombing targets--beginning on August 21, and that government intelligence knew all about it.
.
He reveals that Admiral Kimmel was prevented from conducting a routine training exercise at the eleventh hour that would have uncovered the location of the oncoming Japanese fleet. And contrary to previous claims, he shows that the Japanese fleet did not maintain radio silence as it approached Hawaii. Its many coded cables were intercepted and decoded by American cryptographers in Stations on Hawaii and in Seattle.
.
The evidence is overwhelming. At the highest levels--on FDR's desk--America had ample warning of the pending attack. At those same levels, it was understood that the isolationist American public would not support a declaration of war unless we were attacked first. The result was a plan to anger Japan, to keep the loyal officers responsible for Pearl Harbor in the dark, and thus to drag America into the greatest war of her existence.
.
Yet even having found what he calls the "terrible truth," Stinnett is still inclined to forgive. "I sympathize with the agonizing dilemma faced by President Roosevelt," he writes. "He was forced to find circuitous means to persuade an isolationist America to join in a fight for freedom....It is easier to take a critical view of this policy a half century removed than to understand fully what went on in Roosevelt's mind in the year prior to Pearl Harbor."
.
Day of Deceit is the definitive final chapter on America's greatest secret and our worst military disaster.

And, Was not 9/11 called "a new Pearl Harbor?" Indeed, it was. As a Rockefeller hinted a couple of months beforehand to Aaron Russo--Director of the movie TRADING PLACES--and it was used to motivate the public toward a wholesale loss of more freedoms as well as "a War on Terror."

LOLOLOLOL.

Sigh.

« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 07:58:25 pm by Quix »
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Offline Quix

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You are welcome to modify your post before I do.

In the future, personally assaultive, insulting posts will not likely be tolerated.

Whenever there is little doubt (on my part) that the post is harsh, insulting, assaultive, demeaning vs good natured fun, it will be deleted.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 03:14:55 pm by Quix »
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Offline Quix

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The more posts I read from Quix... . . .

You are welcome  to modify your personally assaultive, demeaning, insulting wording. If you don't, I will.
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Offline Quix

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Geez I miss the the days when there weren't conspiracy {sillies--mod change}

« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:09:30 am by Quix »
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Offline Smokin Joe

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@Quix

Let's, for a moment, suppose that FDR had the definitive skinny on where, when the attack was to take place, that he even had a general idea where the Japanese attacking forces would be located and flying from/to.

Okay, then what?

Had there been a preemptive strike, the Japanese would have casus belli and America would have been the aggressor, in the wrong for attacking those Japanese warships just peacefully steaming around conducting practice air operations.

Would the American people have followed Roosevelt into war under those circumstances?

Now, it gets tricky. Suppose he knew, and then American ships launched a counterattack as soon as word came that the attack was in progress from carriers already at sea and near the Japanese force.  That would have tipped his hand, and possibly exposed the entire Kabuki by showing the American people that the attack was known about in advance, and nothing done to intercept it (see above).

It would have, again, short of collusion on the part of those in two opposing governments soon to be enemies, tipped the Japanese that we had, in fact broken their codes, which would have caused them to change them, leaving the US at a relative intel deficit at the beginning of what would be a protracted conflict.

This raises the killer question: Given that we knew, what major action, if any, could the US take without giving away that we were reading their encrypted messages?

A casual sortie by the carriers moved ships key to the coming conflict out of harm's way, an odd situation, because the common strategic and tactical thought in the USN of the day focused on Battleships, and not the extraordinary projection of attack power later proven inherent in a carrier navy and naval air power.  It was Pearl Harbor that proved the might of the Carrier Task Force above and beyond the Battleship. What we now see as obvious was not so much so back when.

So, I must ask, what would have been done differently had the Commanders at Pearl Harbor known?
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Offline Quix

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I think you make many excellent points.

I also think that there were ways to minimize the wholesale, comprehensive nature of the "surprise" attack without much risk to the things you mention.

The forward observation posts and the communications between key personnel could have been . . . heightened and given some contingency procedures to lessen the damage without appearing to have known about it all more than 1-3 hours beforehand.

Foreign fishing boats could have been strung loosely across the probable path 2-3 hours out--or--better--a few subs.  Might have been suicidal duty but still less devastating than what happened.

Maybe what I'm suggesting is more unreasonable than I think. But what's wrong with setting up a Pearl Harbor Lite vs what happened? It would have still been sufficient to compel the populace into the war.

 During Viet Nam . . . well after . . . McNamara, then SECDEF whined that we ONLY had 50,000 casualties/deaths. They were hoping for more and certainly now knew how to insure many more the next time.

THAT'S the mentality running things. They still are.

Individuals, lives, families, life is merely to be manipulated and trashed at will by the elites as their just due and right--whether for sadistic fun; for geopolitical rearrangements; strategic advantage or merely to sacrificially please satan in some horrific ceremony a la "Spirit Cooking" and Pizzagate.

WWII was set-up to further their globalist goals from the beginning in both Europe and the Pacific. They succeeded.

That Pearl Harbor played such a calculated yet horrific role early on is merely history. But it is a sobering history about the evils of the PTB and their willingness, eagerness to destroy lives to achieve their global goals.

IIRC, I've read convincing testimony that FDR committed suicide. Aids reported he called for a loaded pistol to be brought to him etc. Small wonder. Brain hemorrhage, indeed. A bullet through the skull tends to foster that.

Every WWII movie I've seen that involved Pearl Harbor, at all . . . has always left me feeling great angst to some level of outrage.

I don't  know that I have a lot of brilliant answers. And I know that God has all things in His big hands.

And I know that the USA was set-up by Him for at least a couple of major reasons:

1. To spread The Gospel.

2. To help establish and initially protect Israel . . . and likely

3. To demonstrate to all Creation that even the most ideal form of government will turn utterly devilishly evil apart from an intimate walk with the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
 



@Quix

Let's, for a moment, suppose that FDR had the definitive skinny on where, when the attack was to take place, that he even had a general idea where the Japanese attacking forces would be located and flying from/to.

Okay, then what?

Had there been a preemptive strike, the Japanese would have casus belli and America would have been the aggressor, in the wrong for attacking those Japanese warships just peacefully steaming around conducting practice air operations.

Would the American people have followed Roosevelt into war under those circumstances?

Now, it gets tricky. Suppose he knew, and then American ships launched a counterattack as soon as word came that the attack was in progress from carriers already at sea and near the Japanese force.  That would have tipped his hand, and possibly exposed the entire Kabuki by showing the American people that the attack was known about in advance, and nothing done to intercept it (see above).

It would have, again, short of collusion on the part of those in two opposing governments soon to be enemies, tipped the Japanese that we had, in fact broken their codes, which would have caused them to change them, leaving the US at a relative intel deficit at the beginning of what would be a protracted conflict.

This raises the killer question: Given that we knew, what major action, if any, could the US take without giving away that we were reading their encrypted messages?

A casual sortie by the carriers moved ships key to the coming conflict out of harm's way, an odd situation, because the common strategic and tactical thought in the USN of the day focused on Battleships, and not the extraordinary projection of attack power later proven inherent in a carrier navy and naval air power.  It was Pearl Harbor that proved the might of the Carrier Task Force above and beyond the Battleship. What we now see as obvious was not so much so back when.

So, I must ask, what would have been done differently had the Commanders at Pearl Harbor known?
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Offline Bigun

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Offline Quix

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Are you suggesting then that conspiracies don't exist, and never did?  Or are you saying rather that we shouldn't "waste time" in trying to figure out if they might have influenced past events?
[/]

The later. Its impossible to judge the past by today's perceptions of reality....

I think your response deserves a more thoughtful reply . . .

1. I don't  know HOW impossible it is. You make it sound as though we can have no more than 0.0% reasonably accurate understanding of past events. I disagree with that  idea. I think we can learn a lot of fruitful stuff in studying even Rome's history . . . as well as WWII etc. etc.

2. Now whether anyone of any clout will apply anything learned in behalf of the people is a whole different matter.

3. Certainly today's perceptions of reality are increasingly colored, sliced, diced, manipulated, homogenized, to fit a literally devilish agenda--facts and truth fell by the wayside a long time ago as Orwell observed and warned about.

4. But not everyone has been totally MSM lobotomized . . . quite yet. The pottery master's young adult son teaching in Japan unfriended me on FB  because I dared to say something forceful to him about his outrage against Trump etc. and I suggested he'd look a lot less foolish at some point if he & his dad educated themselves a lot better as to the underlying realities of our era. He was furious.  Sadly, that ilk of lack of awareness still pervades at least 40% of the population. But that's better than the 85% it used to be.

5. What would you advocate in such regards given all the givens as you see them?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 07:19:02 pm by Quix »
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Offline Quix

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I answered yes on the poll because everyone else said no! I'm a contrarian you know!


There's a place for contrarians.

Though being harshly, spitefully, viciously contrarian out of horrific attachment disorder dynamics is not a great route to wonderful relationships and mutual support and understanding.

I think I'll get the DAY OF DECEIT for my Kindle. He certainly researched a huge wealth of material.

Just the Amazon blurb makes a huge chunk of the responses on this thread look exceedingly ignorant, uninformed and absurd.
Forgive all; In all things Thank God; Love all. Love 1st, most & always... BE CALM & DO THE NEXT LOVING THING.
POTTERY SITE ON ETSY: https://www.etsy.com/shop/ACTIVELOVE
QUIX thread for Quix GLOBALISM, UFO ETC topics here:http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php?topic=206517.new#new WILLIAM TOMPKINS Disclosure bk thread: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,224639.0.html . Calling: To afflict the comfortable & comfort the afflicted[/