Author Topic: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy  (Read 5311 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« on: November 30, 2016, 07:57:56 pm »
By Veronique de Rugy
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/442548/jeff-sessions-drug-policy-attorney-general-marijuana

Quote
Conservatives are typically pleased with President-elect Trump’s selection of “law and order” Alabama senator Jeff Sessions
as the next Attorney General
of the United States. I have worked with Senator Sessions often in the past and I have enjoyed it very
much. He is one of the few senators who is serious about reducing our debt and the country’s fiscal imbalances. More importantly,
in my opinion, he doesn’t just pay lip service to reducing overspending — he is always pushing to make it a priority for other
Republicans as well.

However, I can’t help but being concerned about his nomination as AG. I know it will come as a surprise — when both sides in
Washington are often more than happy to abuse the powers of the executive office and other levels of government to achieve their
goals — but the law is supposed to protect our individual liberties, not stomp all over them. In that regard, I am worried about
having Senator Sessions become the next chief law-enforcement officer of the United States. I say this in part because when it
comes to marijuana policy, his views are quite outdated.

For example, have a look at some of his comments from a Senate hearing on drugs back in April:

Quote
This drug is dangerous, you cannot play with it, it is not funny, it’s not something to laugh
about . . . and [it's important] to send that message with clarity that good people don’t
smoke marijuana.

I am certainly not a drug user, but the idea that you can judge people’s “goodness” by someone’s marijuana use is problematic. If
that’s the case, how about alcohol, cigarettes, carbohydrates, or anything else?

In addition, it is very out of touch with the rest of the country. Marijuana is no longer a fringe issue. In recent years, both the medicinal
and recreational use of marijuana has gained legal acceptance in numerous states despite the federal government’s “war on drugs”
remaining in effect. Indeed, marijuana’s resounding success on Election Day now means that “The War on Drugs Is Lost.” That was
30 years ago and it hasn’t be won since.

Also, in criticizing the Obama administration’s decision to not drop the federal hammer on those states that chose individual liberty over
counterproductive prohibition, Sessions said this:

Quote
I think one of [Obama's] great failures, it’s obvious to me, is his lax treatment in comments
on marijuana. . . . It reverses 20 years almost of hostility to drugs that began really when Nancy Reagan
started “Just Say No.”

Now, I will say that the Obama administration was wrong to restrict itself to a lack of enforcement of the outdated drug laws. By doing
so, it left the door wide open for another administration — and for an AG committed to enforcing the laws on the books — to turn back
the clock and start throwing people in jail for doing something that is legal in their state.

In addition, the “Just Say No” campaign didn’t work. Like alcohol prohibition, marijuana prohibition has come with a lot of cost and little,
if any, benefit. Alcohol is arguably more dangerous than marijuana, yet I doubt Senator Sessions would support bringing back the 18th
Amendment. As such, it’s high time we recognize the idiocy of the prohibition of marijuana.

For all the respect I have for Senator Sessions, the budget hawk, I fear that Attorney General Jeff Sessions may use the Justice Department
to trample
on the will of the states and their citizens regarding marijuana. This isn’t just about the “right to get high.” This is about allowing
the states to be laboratories of democracy and knocking the almighty federal government down a peg. One does not have to support
marijuana, advocate for it, or use it to understand the problem with one man deciding he knows what’s best for everyone else in the
country.


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geronl

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2016, 08:01:01 pm »
I would love to see it eradicated completely


Offline the_doc

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2016, 09:55:56 pm »
I would love to see it eradicated completely

Marijuana causes brain damage and sometimes even triggers psychotic episodes in neurotic persons.  I knew a very good psychiatrist (a liberal, but a good physician) who once declared to me that California's decision several years ago to legalize medical marijuana was the single stupidest lawmaking decision California every made.  Now California is going to legalize recreational marijuana, of course. 

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2016, 10:48:37 pm »
Marijuana causes brain damage and sometimes even triggers psychotic episodes in neurotic persons.

Seemingly, it depends on how much and how potent a particular bunch might be:

Does Marijuana Harm the Brain?

(Codicil: I'm not a pot smoker myself except on extremely rare occasions, the last having been about
fifteen years ago.)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 10:49:37 pm by EasyAce »


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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2016, 11:50:05 pm »
Marijuana causes brain damage and sometimes even triggers psychotic episodes in neurotic persons.  I knew a very good psychiatrist (a liberal, but a good physician) who once declared to me that California's decision several years ago to legalize medical marijuana was the single stupidest lawmaking decision California every made.  Now California is going to legalize recreational marijuana, of course.

I can imagine too the tar and other carcinogens going directly to your lungs since there's no kind of filter on a joint like there is on a cigarette.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2016, 12:24:04 am »
I can imagine too the tar and other carcinogens going directly to your lungs since there's no kind of filter on a joint like there is on a cigarette.

From the University of Washington's Alcohol and Drug Abuse Institute:

Quote
The association between smoking marijuana and lung cancer remains unclear.  Marijuana smoke contains
about 50% more benzopyrene and nearly 75% more benzanthracene, both known carcinogens, than a comparable
quantity of unfiltered tobacco smoke (Tashkin, 2013). Moreover, the deeper inhalations and longer breath-holding
of marijuana smokers result in greater exposure of the lung to the tar and carcinogens in the smoke. Lung biopsies
from habitual marijuana-only users have revealed widespread alterations to the tissue, some of which are recognized
as precursors to the subsequent development of cancer (Tashkin, 2013). 

On the other hand, several well-designed and large-scale studies, including one in Washington State (Rosenblatt et
al, 2004), have failed to find any increased risk of lung or upper airway cancer in people who have smoked marijuana
(Mehra et al, 2006; Tashkin, 2013), and studies assessing the association between marijuana use and cancer risk have
many limitations, including concomitant tobacco use and the relatively small number of long-term heavy users –
particularly older users. Therefore, even though population-based studies have generally failed to show increased
cancer risk, no study has definitively ruled out the possibility that some individuals, especially heavier marijuana
users, may incur an elevated risk of cancer. This risk appears to be smaller than for tobacco, yet is important to consider
when weighing the benefits and risks of smoking marijuana. (Tashkin DP, 2013). More research on marijuana smoking
and cancer is needed.

Two other conditions of concern, bullous lung disease (abnormal airspaces in the lungs caused by damage to the lung
walls) and pneumothorax (“collapsed lung”), have not been definitively linked to marijuana smoke either (Tam et al,
2006). Several studies have found evidence of a possible association (Beshay et al, 2007; Hii et al, 2008; Reece, 2008),
however, many of these studies featured 10 or fewer study subjects, some of whom also smoked tobacco. The research
remains unclear.



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Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2016, 12:37:37 am »
Ah. Glad to see a group of people who probably couldn't roll a joint if I bet a $1000 are chiming in on the evils of weed.

This is a states rights issue. The only people angry about legal pot are splinters of the temperance movement and the alcohol lobby (just look at who singularly is funding the anti pot movement). If Sessions has his shit together, which is debatable, he will find better things to go after in his 4 short years.

Oceander

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2016, 12:42:33 am »
Sessions is definitely wrong. I'm with @Frank Cannon on this one. 

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2016, 12:53:42 am »
If Sessions has his shit together, which is debatable, he will find better things to go after in his 4 short years.

Legitimate criminals, as opposed to mere vicemongers, would be nice . . .


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Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

HonestJohn

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2016, 04:20:59 am »
Marijuana causes brain damage and sometimes even triggers psychotic episodes in neurotic persons.

So does alcohol with both forms of damage.

If alcohol is legal despite it doing the same...

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2016, 04:40:45 am »
(Codicil: I'm not a pot smoker myself except on extremely rare occasions, the last having been about
fifteen years ago.)

Codicil: I'm not a pot smoker myself except on extremely rare occasions, the last having been about
fifteen seconds ago until I dropped my bowl and it rolled under the gas pedal.


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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2016, 07:41:05 am »
From the University of Washington's Alcohol and Drug Abuse Institute:
Quote
More research on marijuana smoking
and cancer is needed.

Translation: We need willing lab rats. After all, the train didn't wreck until the study has passed peer review.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2016, 07:42:31 am »
So does alcohol with both forms of damage.

If alcohol is legal despite it doing the same...
We should add a whole 'nother class of drug because it isn't any worse than the other one?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2016, 12:10:32 pm »

Offline the_doc

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2016, 09:02:34 pm »
So does alcohol with both forms of damage.

If alcohol is legal despite it doing the same...

My shrink buddy told me that he had seen MJ occasionally trigger full-blown, severe psychotic breaks--especially pretty rabid paranoia.  Ethanol, on the other hand, produces hallucinations only upon an alcoholic's withdrawal.  (I am not saying that alcohol is in no wise dangerous, but saying that they are markedly different.)

I agree that ethanol causes brain damage, but my friends who have used MJ for long periods have confessed to me that they have apparently suffered noticeable loss of IQ.  One of my closest friends has said that he suffered pretty bad memory loss after only a couple of years of occasional use of MJ.

One of the most disturbing things about all of this is that the MJ libertarians are inclined to defend MJ as harmless--or, at least no worse than alcohol.  I would not be so sure of this.  Long-term physiologic damage can be subtle but severe.  Part of the subtlety problem is that many MJ users are seemingly high-functioning folks who don't stagger and slur their speech (although I understand that MJ-related automobile accidents have gone up in states that have legalized MJ).

Perhaps the most disturbing thing of all is the fact that MJ advocates are so zealous in their advocacy even though many if most MJ users don't even know about the adverse health effects of MJ--including those that have been proven--and even though the adverse social effects of MJ, although not known, are worrisome to anyone except complete doofuses.  (As I have already stipulated, alcohol abuse is socially injurious, but I suspect that the MJ culture could prove to be even more injurious.  We already have too many lazy drop-out stoners who can't name the VP of the U.S.;  who think Abraham Lincoln was a Democrat;  who think that Obama is the coolest President in history;  who think Hillary got railroaded during the election;  who think CO2 is destroying the planet;  who think George Bush killed more people than Josef Stalin;  et cetera.) 

       


HonestJohn

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2016, 11:25:01 pm »
We should add a whole 'nother class of drug because it isn't any worse than the other one?

If alcohol is so bad, why aren't you out trying to ban it?  If marijuana is only as bad as alcohol, why is it motivating you... and alcohol doesn't?

What seperates marijuana from alcohol to the extent that you need it banned?

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2016, 11:46:23 pm »
They are not the same.  The last thing we need is a drugged electorate.

I dunno. A stone cold sober electorate gave us this year's presidential race. Maybe a stoned electorate can do better
next time? ;)



"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2016, 11:46:50 pm »
They are different drugs with different problems and effects.  I think that has been explained well on this thread by others.  You clearly do not see it that way.  But asking the question a million times doesn't change the answer. 

Here is one new thing:  Secondhand smoke is an issue while there is no secondhand alcohol effect.  People put pot in food and that is different as the alcohol is easy to notice in drinks and cooks out of food. 

They are not the same.  The last thing we need is a drugged electorate.

You do realize that secondhand smoke issues are already covered in smoking laws?

This is a red herring that isn't applicable.

HonestJohn

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2016, 11:48:40 pm »
I dunno. A stone cold sober electorate gave us this year's presidential race. Maybe a stoned electorate can do better
next time? ;)

With all the prescription drugs and heroin going around... I don't think the electorate on the right was sober.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2016, 11:55:17 pm »
With all the prescription drugs and heroin going around... I don't think the electorate on the right was sober.

Maybe that's it---they had the wrong drugs. ;)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 11:55:38 pm by EasyAce »


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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2016, 02:44:03 am »
I don't think Mr. Sessions is wrong.

So there.

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2016, 01:26:48 pm »
If alcohol is so bad, why aren't you out trying to ban it?  If marijuana is only as bad as alcohol, why is it motivating you... and alcohol doesn't?

What seperates marijuana from alcohol to the extent that you need it banned?
I don't drink. I stopped nearly 30 years ago and just never started again.  As is obvious from even one episode of "Moonshiners", banning alcohol will not be enough to do away with it, people have been making their particular brew for as long as there have been people.  It has been tried, and the effect was to entrench criminal enterprises which provided the product.
While there are criminal enterprises which provide illegal drugs, including Marijuana, they do not enjoy the more universal acceptance those alcohol producing enterprises did because the use of the product is not as wide as the use of alcohol is. Letting those enterprises go 'legit' will not change the nature of their other dealings, it will only fund and front for them.

The damage evident to anyone who has dealt with people who consume alcohol in excess is obvious, at least to most of us. But alcohol isn't always consumed to the level that there is a noticeable high. A drink (one) in a social setting may be consumed without noticeable effect except to relax the person consuming it. Continue, and the effects become more profound.
Over the years, I have known many people who smoke weed, too. One thing is must note is that while some ethanol consumers are out of control, most I know will limit the amount they consume to avoid a buzz, especially if they are driving. With weed, the objective is to get a buzz, period. I can't say I have known anyone who didn't smoke for the high. Not a little puff off a joint to relax, but enough to cop a buzz.

That is a seminal difference in the two drugs, imho.

With ethanol it is possible to anticipate levels of intoxication and not overdo it. Levels of alcohol in drinks are predictable and regulated by law, or clearly marked. Levels of intoxication are predictable, too, especially for the user who has been consuming for a little while, but even quantifiable, with predictable results for all but the most heavy users.

With weed, not so much. Not only are dosages not predictable, I can't ever recall someone saying "Two's my limit, I gotta drive.".

Admittedly, there is a Catch-22 there which prevents the study of levels of intoxicant and effects, the ability to test those levels and establish guidelines which would keep impaired drivers off the road and from performing critical functions with marijuana, and part of that difficulty stems from variations in strength of different plants, parts of plants, and even varieties of the plant, which render such quantification difficult for both the user and the persons charged with enforcing laws which exist to encourage people to not drive under the undue influence of the drug.

Individual variations in physiology may have an effect, and for that matter, overall usage, much as with alcohol, may mask the people who have higher intoxicant levels yet remain 'functional'. Much as with hardcore drinkers, there is an optimal level of intoxication with which they function best, compared to the absence of the intoxicant which leads to adverse effects. People of this nature only complicate efforts to find a reasonable level.

At present, the only way to regulate Marijuana and driving is to either commit the using populace to suffer the subjective opinions of LEOs as witnesses to the apparent mental state and ability of a person to drive, or allow unfettered usage of Marijuana among drivers, or to ban the use entirely, especially on the road.

That single difficulty will put a major stumbling block in the way of efforts to legalize the drug for any but medical purposes, and those will likely be subject to intense scrutiny, despite the revenue the industry would bring in and the corruption which will accompany that. Not that there aren't any examples out there to go by, look at Colorado, and especially the Front Range communities for an example.

Regardless of legality of either intoxicant, there are and will be jobs which require a person to be alert, clear headed, attentive, and even capable of multitasking, which would be interfered with by either. Alcohol has been around long enough to have warnings against "strong wine" in the Bible, and even the (faithful) Muslims just don't. It is a cultural genie that will never go back in the bottle, so to speak.
 
I question the wisdom of letting another out and sanctioning it.



 
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 01:33:08 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

HonestJohn

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2016, 05:40:57 pm »
I don't drink. I stopped nearly 30 years ago and just never started again.  As is obvious from even one episode of "Moonshiners", banning alcohol will not be enough to do away with it, people have been making their particular brew for as long as there have been people.  It has been tried, and the effect was to entrench criminal enterprises which provided the product.

While there are criminal enterprises which provide illegal drugs, including Marijuana, they do not enjoy the more universal acceptance those alcohol producing enterprises did because the use of the product is not as wide as the use of alcohol is. Letting those enterprises go 'legit' will not change the nature of their other dealings, it will only fund and front for them.

The damage evident to anyone who has dealt with people who consume alcohol in excess is obvious, at least to most of us. But alcohol isn't always consumed to the level that there is a noticeable high. A drink (one) in a social setting may be consumed without noticeable effect except to relax the person consuming it. Continue, and the effects become more profound.

Over the years, I have known many people who smoke weed, too. One thing is must note is that while some ethanol consumers are out of control, most I know will limit the amount they consume to avoid a buzz, especially if they are driving. With weed, the objective is to get a buzz, period. I can't say I have known anyone who didn't smoke for the high. Not a little puff off a joint to relax, but enough to cop a buzz.

That is a seminal difference in the two drugs, imho.

With ethanol it is possible to anticipate levels of intoxication and not overdo it. Levels of alcohol in drinks are predictable and regulated by law, or clearly marked. Levels of intoxication are predictable, too, especially for the user who has been consuming for a little while, but even quantifiable, with predictable results for all but the most heavy users.

With weed, not so much. Not only are dosages not predictable, I can't ever recall someone saying "Two's my limit, I gotta drive.".

Admittedly, there is a Catch-22 there which prevents the study of levels of intoxicant and effects, the ability to test those levels and establish guidelines which would keep impaired drivers off the road and from performing critical functions with marijuana, and part of that difficulty stems from variations in strength of different plants, parts of plants, and even varieties of the plant, which render such quantification difficult for both the user and the persons charged with enforcing laws which exist to encourage people to not drive under the undue influence of the drug.

Individual variations in physiology may have an effect, and for that matter, overall usage, much as with alcohol, may mask the people who have higher intoxicant levels yet remain 'functional'. Much as with hardcore drinkers, there is an optimal level of intoxication with which they function best, compared to the absence of the intoxicant which leads to adverse effects. People of this nature only complicate efforts to find a reasonable level.

At present, the only way to regulate Marijuana and driving is to either commit the using populace to suffer the subjective opinions of LEOs as witnesses to the apparent mental state and ability of a person to drive, or allow unfettered usage of Marijuana among drivers, or to ban the use entirely, especially on the road.

That single difficulty will put a major stumbling block in the way of efforts to legalize the drug for any but medical purposes, and those will likely be subject to intense scrutiny, despite the revenue the industry would bring in and the corruption which will accompany that. Not that there aren't any examples out there to go by, look at Colorado, and especially the Front Range communities for an example.

Regardless of legality of either intoxicant, there are and will be jobs which require a person to be alert, clear headed, attentive, and even capable of multitasking, which would be interfered with by either. Alcohol has been around long enough to have warnings against "strong wine" in the Bible, and even the (faithful) Muslims just don't. It is a cultural genie that will never go back in the bottle, so to speak.
 
I question the wisdom of letting another out and sanctioning it.

Over the years, I have known many people who smoke weed, too. One thing is must note is that while some ethanol consumers are out of control, most I know will limit the amount they consume to avoid a buzz, especially if they are driving. With weed, the objective is to get a buzz, period. I can't say I have known anyone who didn't smoke for the high. Not a little puff off a joint to relax, but enough to cop a buzz.

That is a seminal difference in the two drugs, imho.


And by the same token, the people I know only drink to get drunk.  I've always been the oddball that only has a shot of whiskey/glass of wine with dinner to savor the taste.

With ethanol it is possible to anticipate levels of intoxication and not overdo it. Levels of alcohol in drinks are predictable and regulated by law, or clearly marked. Levels of intoxication are predictable, too, especially for the user who has been consuming for a little while, but even quantifiable, with predictable results for all but the most heavy users.

With weed, not so much. Not only are dosages not predictable, I can't ever recall someone saying "Two's my limit, I gotta drive.".


This can just as easily be done for weed.  It just has not, as it's been illegal.


Offline Resp3

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2016, 05:47:44 pm »
Wow. The Nat Rev taking a pro-dope position. Color me shocked.

NOT.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Jeff Sessions Is Wrong on Marijuana Policy
« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2016, 05:48:11 pm »

 
I question the wisdom of letting another out and sanctioning it.

It's already out. It is everywhere. I live in a state where it is currently illegal and I can walk into about 5% of my rental units at any given time and find evidence of it. I know cops who have told me for the last 10 years that they do not bust people anymore for it unless they are involved in another crime. Pot has become the 55 MPH speed limit. Pointless and unenforced because too many people have decided to disregard it.

On the point about the difference in the effects of pot and alcohol, there is a major difference. Of the two substances only one works by shutting down portions of your brain.