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Author Topic: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!  (Read 12898 times)

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Offline guitar4jesus

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #100 on: November 30, 2016, 11:40:54 am »
Quote from: DB on November 30, 2016, 07:37:28 am
You don't have a right not to be offended. That is what the 1st amendment is about, protecting unpopular speech. When you cross the bridge that you're willing to put someone in prison for burning a symbol, where does it end? In time it will be burning a picture of dear leader. It doesn't end well. Liberty has costs and this is one of them, putting up with offensive speech.

Aye.
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Oceander

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #101 on: November 30, 2016, 11:45:44 am »
Quote from: DB on November 30, 2016, 07:37:28 am
You don't have a right not to be offended. That is what the 1st amendment is about, protecting unpopular speech. When you cross the bridge that you're willing to put someone in prison for burning a symbol, where does it end? In time it will be burning a picture of dear leader. It doesn't end well. Liberty has costs and this is one of them, putting up with offensive speech.

@DB
:thumbsup:
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #102 on: November 30, 2016, 12:40:56 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 05:26:23 am
That is a really odd argument and has no meaning.  It's a ridiculous convoluted argument.  If I buy a dog and own it, can I abuse the dog?  No.

But, @Emjay, you can't equate a piece of cloth with a living creature.  Obviously we treat them differently. 
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 12:41:31 pm by Sanguine »
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #103 on: November 30, 2016, 01:19:22 pm »
Quote from: DB on November 30, 2016, 07:37:28 am
You don't have a right not to be offended. That is what the 1st amendment is about, protecting unpopular speech. When you cross the bridge that you're willing to put someone in prison for burning a symbol, where does it end? In time it will be burning a picture of dear leader. It doesn't end well. Liberty has costs and this is one of them, putting up with offensive speech.

That's the truth.   Political correctness coming from the right is no more defensible than the variety espoused by the left.   
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #104 on: November 30, 2016, 01:50:08 pm »
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 01:56:00 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline Idaho_Cowboy

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #105 on: November 30, 2016, 04:43:25 pm »
Quote from: AbaraXas on November 30, 2016, 02:51:35 am
Does anyone think the end goal of this is almost a publicity stunt? Trump knows this will provoke protestors to burn the flag. He wants the optics of his opponents. He is Captain America, his enemies are anti-American flag burners.

Maybe he is writing a script.
He's certainly managed to bring the worst of the liberal out of the woodwork and point out their hypocrisy in only wanting people to have rights when they can use those rights to try and damage America.
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HonestJohn

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #106 on: November 30, 2016, 06:14:36 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 05:26:23 am
That is a really odd argument and has no meaning.  It's a ridiculous convoluted argument.  If I buy a dog and own it, can I abuse the dog?  No.

Dogs are alive, flags aren't.

Try a comparison using inanimate objects.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2016, 06:15:53 pm by HonestJohn »
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Offline NavyCanDo

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #107 on: November 30, 2016, 07:27:58 pm »
So if there was a law passed - what defines an American flag? Lawmakers would have to define what a flag is.  I have at least 2 T-shirts with large American Flags on them. Can I burn them?  On the Fourth of July many of us eat our hamburgers on paper plates decorated with American Flags - and tossing them afterward. Would it be against the law to burn those paper plates?  What about home made flags. If you see people in foreign countries burning American Flags - often they are home-made flags made out of anything from a T-shirt to a piece of cardboard. Can those home-made flags be burned. Lots and lots of what-ifs.

As a veteran and the descendent of veterans from every war going back to the French Indian War nothing angers be more than some commie numbskull burning an American Flag. But it would be a  foolish mistake to chip-away at the First Amendment to protect the flag from protestors.     
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #108 on: November 30, 2016, 07:43:56 pm »
Quote from: NavyCanDo on November 30, 2016, 07:27:58 pm

As a veteran and the descendent of veterans from every war going back to the French Indian War nothing angers be more than some commie numbskull burning an American Flag. But it would be a  foolish mistake to chip-away at the First Amendment to protect the flag from protestors.   

HOOAH!
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #109 on: November 30, 2016, 07:44:41 pm »
Quote from: NavyCanDo on November 30, 2016, 07:27:58 pm
So if there was a law passed - what defines an American flag? Lawmakers would have to define what a flag is.  I have at least 2 T-shirts with large American Flags on them. Can I burn them?  On the Fourth of July many of us eat our hamburgers on paper plates decorated with American Flags - and tossing them afterward. Would it be against the law to burn those paper plates?  What about home made flags. If you see people in foreign countries burning American Flags - often they are home-made flags made out of anything from a T-shirt to a piece of cardboard. Can those home-made flags be burned. Lots and lots of what-ifs.

As a veteran and the descendent of veterans from every war going back to the French Indian War nothing angers be more than some commie numbskull burning an American Flag. But it would be a  foolish mistake to chip-away at the First Amendment to protect the flag from protestors.   

You know what?  It's really weird but I think y'all have convinced me that burning a flag, while a repugnant act, should not be made a crime.  But if some marine decides to kick the burner in the teeth, that shouldn't be a crime either.
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Offline ABX

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #110 on: November 30, 2016, 07:51:41 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 07:44:41 pm
You know what?  It's really weird but I think y'all have convinced me that burning a flag, while a repugnant act, should not be made a crime.  But if some marine decides to kick the burner in the teeth, that shouldn't be a crime either.

What is the flag burner was a disabled veteran making a political point about the corruption and problems with the VA?
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #111 on: November 30, 2016, 07:57:07 pm »
Quote from: AbaraXas on November 30, 2016, 07:51:41 pm
What is the flag burner was a disabled veteran making a political point about the corruption and problems with the VA?

A Marine would never hit a disabled veteran.  So, even when you win me over, you want to stomp on me.
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Online DB

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #112 on: November 30, 2016, 07:58:47 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 07:44:41 pm
You know what?  It's really weird but I think y'all have convinced me that burning a flag, while a repugnant act, should not be made a crime.  But if some marine decides to kick the burner in the teeth, that shouldn't be a crime either.

That's why we have juries... I also believe in jury nullification - meaning there are some circumstances where the action was justified, even if against the law and the jury can say so.
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Offline ABX

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #113 on: November 30, 2016, 08:01:43 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 07:57:07 pm
A Marine would never hit a disabled veteran.  So, even when you win me over, you want to stomp on me.

That wasn't meant as a 'stomp on you' comment. It was simply the point that we value our freedoms and more importantly, individual life over symbols. If the Marine (or anyone for that matter) attacked an individual who was not actually threatening anyone harm, just doing something that offended him, it would be considered assault.  If it is OK to assault someone (deprive them of life, liberty, or property) over the flag, then what does the flag actually stand for?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #114 on: November 30, 2016, 08:03:36 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 07:44:41 pm
You know what?  It's really weird but I think y'all have convinced me that burning a flag, while a repugnant act, should not be made a crime.  But if some marine decides to kick the burner in the teeth, that shouldn't be a crime either.

I appreciate your saying that, @Emjay.
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Online DB

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #115 on: November 30, 2016, 08:04:54 pm »
Quote from: AbaraXas on November 30, 2016, 07:51:41 pm
What is the flag burner was a disabled veteran making a political point about the corruption and problems with the VA?

Well if that's the case, it is HIGHLY unlikely another veteran would want to assault a disabled veteran protesting the VA.

The bottom line is that is why we have juries. The jury can decided if the assault was justified or not.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #116 on: November 30, 2016, 08:06:12 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on November 30, 2016, 08:03:36 pm
I appreciate your saying that, @Emjay.

Thanks, apparently other people still want to argue.  I meant my comment somewhat as a joke (about the Marine) but no everyone thinks I'm funny.
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geronl

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #117 on: November 30, 2016, 08:09:20 pm »
Quote from: Sanguine on November 30, 2016, 03:42:39 am
Maybe he's channeling Hillary?

Charles C. Cooke on Twitter

Trump is the reincarnation of Clinton
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Offline EC

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #118 on: November 30, 2016, 08:20:31 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 08:06:12 pm
Thanks, apparently other people still want to argue.  I meant my comment somewhat as a joke (about the Marine) but no everyone thinks I'm funny.

@Emjay

I sort of agree with your joke about the Marine. After all, it's well established legally that speech is not always verbal!  ^-^
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #119 on: November 30, 2016, 08:20:59 pm »
Quote from: geronl on November 30, 2016, 08:09:20 pm
Trump is the reincarnation of Clinton

History Channel's had separate series on Stalin and Hitler last couple of days (I started watching last night). Both were interesting, featured a couple of history professors from Univ of North Texas.

Without invoking Godwin's Law, one could find comparisons to today regarding the "cult of personality".
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Online DB

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #120 on: November 30, 2016, 08:23:21 pm »
Quote from: Emjay on November 30, 2016, 08:06:12 pm
Thanks, apparently other people still want to argue.  I meant my comment somewhat as a joke (about the Marine) but no everyone thinks I'm funny.

Sometimes I'm too literal... Sorry that I missed it. Wasn't trying to be argumentative.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #121 on: November 30, 2016, 09:32:46 pm »
Quote from: DB on November 30, 2016, 08:23:21 pm
Sometimes I'm too literal... Sorry that I missed it. Wasn't trying to be argumentative.

Hey, no problem.  Actually, we are here to argue things out and you people have gotten me thinking about a lot of legal ramifications regarding protests, however offensive they might be to some.
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Offline Machiavelli

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Donald Trump Once Appeared to Agree That Flag Burning Was Free Expression
« Reply #122 on: December 01, 2016, 10:24:40 pm »
Donald Trump Once Appeared to Agree That Flag Burning Was Free Expression

Candace Smith
ABC News
November 30, 2016

Quote
Donald Trump recently suggested that those who burn the American flag should be jailed or have their citizenship revoked -- but it appears he did not always feel that way.

In an interview done with David Letterman on Jan. 8, 2015, just months before he launched his campaign, Trump agreed with Letterman "100 percent" that flag burning is a form of expression.
More


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpsrstfx8o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpsrstfx8o
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Offline Cripplecreek

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Re: Donald Trump Once Appeared to Agree That Flag Burning Was Free Expression
« Reply #123 on: December 01, 2016, 10:28:14 pm »
Quote from: Machiavelli on December 01, 2016, 10:24:40 pm
Donald Trump Once Appeared to Agree That Flag Burning Was Free Expression

Candace Smith
ABC News
November 30, 2016
More


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpsrstfx8o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYpsrstfx8o

Typically Trump. Take all sides of every issue.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Nobody should be allowed to burn the American flag - if they do, there must be consequences - perhaps loss of citizenship or year in jail!
« Reply #124 on: December 01, 2016, 10:30:54 pm »
Quote from: Night Hides Not on November 29, 2016, 01:57:25 pm
As much as I detest the burning of our flag, it's been common political speech for decades. Personally, I think it's passé.

By the same token, if I'm near an assembly where the flag is being burned, pardon me if I exercise my right to speech by doing whatever it takes to stop it.

Best!

Me too.
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